Warmachine mk3

[Dhi]

I sure do love Iron Kingdoms, and now there's a new edition of Warmachine and Hordes coming out in two months? What?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UBBcOVuY4U

The new battleboxes retail for $40 and promise to be a great starting point for new players. Here's a gallery of those.
http://imgur.com/a/NaNy9/all

Unfortunately there's no real information in the video except that battleboxes will be more viable. That sounds great to me. But in light of the announcement, the Primecast from two months ago is suddenly very interesting... because it turns out they were talking about the new mk3 warcasters.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/privateer-primecast-new-2016-warcasters-warlocks.html

I'm excited!

[Far eyes]

I really love the Iron Kingdoms art style its the one big thing i always took away from it. The miniatures game was always a tad inaccessible not because of it mostly just because well a lot of miniatures games are inaccessible when you dont have hundreds to spend on minis.

I do remember playing i think DnD 3.0 had a campaign setting, it was an interesting game i think it ended up falling apart for well the classic reasons. People have lifes and stuff to do.   

Still love there art <3

[Kakihara]

Cool.  The battleboxes almost make me feel like I might want to start getting more into Warmachine.  I've always been a fan of Iron Kingdoms and had bought the Warmachine mark 2 rules to help supplement the base game should we get any large scale battles but never have been into wargaming, though intrigued as know a few into it over the years.  I like that they are making it more accessible for the novice.

Of course that is until SO hears me talking about it and slaps me down saying we don't have the bloody room for such things.

[Dhi]

It's one of those skirmish games that isn't super expensive to get into. The $40 for the new battleboxes will get you a starting force, the new rules, and a little faction book. It's actually more than what they were offering with the mk2 battleboxes, and for less money.

I play Khador (Russian imperalists) and Circle Orboros (guerilla druids) so I'm looking closely at those battleboxes.

Khador's is much the same as it was before, except one of the jacks now has a rip saw for sustained attack. The new warcaster seems to be a Greylord, judging by that axe. So if the rip saw is anything like it was in mk2, Khador is looking at a heavy armor force that wants to get into melee and tear up enemy warjacks. Presumably the Greylord helps them to do this, giving you a choice between buff spells or allotting focus to sustained rip saw attacks.

Circle Orboros' new battlebox is a better value of units than the previous double argus. Replacing the melee machine Feral Warpwolf with a ranged Pureblood Warpwolf means the force is now sort of a mixed bag. On the stream they discuss the Blackclad gal being Kaya's opposite, driving warbeasts with an iron fist rather than befriending them. So where Kaya has spells to protect her warbeasts, I'm expecting the new warlock to push them into harm's way and get extra benefit from animus. Probably a toolkit for more experienced players.

[Revelation]

Whoo! Sadly I have not played the game in over a year but I am super excited.

In short, there are a number of changes coming it seems. Here's a short but fairly comprehensive list of some of the biggest changes.

Each warcaster has a unique spell or special abilty, in addition to their feat

Doubled the point scale, no more hundreds of 2 point solos

Warjacks get a free focus point just for being in the warcasters control area

Warlocks gain "spirit bond" giving them fury for dead warbeasts during their control phase

Warcaster/locks start with 25-30 free Jack/beast points, with double point scale this means 2 free heavies

New Battleboxes are 0 points

Colossals/Gargantuans/battle engines are apparently getting more powerful
("we believe we designed them too conservatively")
Also getting a points increase "conquest is 4 times the points of a juggernaut"

Pre-measuring added universally to the game

Physiology "basicly gone" no more fear/terror

Fluff is no longer in game books, is now solely in Skull island books
In addition all the stuff in mrk 1 and 2 is over (the story is wrapped up) a 2 year time skip and a new series of books coming out (Flashpoint)
New Rulership in Cygnar, more willingness in killing characters

Lock and load pre-release 11 june, full release 29 June

New hordes faction is coming out lock and load 2017, apparently really different, they've been designed solely for mrk 3 obviously

[Dhi]

Great info, thanks! So new Hordes faction finally, what are your thoughts? I'm still thinking Infernals.

[Revelation]

Infernals seems likely, but I am still not sold on it being the,

I doubt we'll ever see the Orgoth as a faction warmachine or hordes, so they're out.
Giants are far too unlikely, as well.
My two big thoughts besides Infernals are a dragon coalition with various blighted animals, or a group/invading army from Zu, where the Totem hunter comes from. I'd love an insect themed hordes army, lots of grisly and chitinous bug monsters, but I fear the Aradus beasts in Skorne are gonna cover that niche.

[Dhi]

The new Cryx warcaster is an Orgoth witch. I think that's intended to mean she is actually Orgoth, as opposed to just using Orgoth magic... which describes all of Cryx already.

Zu sounds interesting. I've never heard of that. Is it Eastern Immoren, or one of the islands?

[Revelation]

Zu is across the ocean to the south of Immoren, basically an Africa-equivalent. There's not too much information about it, though. Not many humans in setting have been there and the few that have mostly stick to the harbors as the indigenous humans of Zu don't want them straying far from it. Apparently from some of those who have found a way to explore, there's a lot of Orgoth ruins and relics.

If the new warcaster for Cryx actually is Orgoth, that'd be... interesting, I seem to recall the lore saying most of Orgoth was ravaged by plague and never recovered. It'd be kind of a setting changer to have the Orgoth be active again I think.

[HairyHeretic]

I'm a Cryx player myself, though I didn't play a lot during 2nd ed. I'm curious to see how things are changing, even if I don't get a chance to play much.

[Seirre]

Suspicion with my local league is that it will be Zu.  Who can say for sure though.  One of our guys is officially in the finals for Seattle L&Load.  Maybe he will get to hear something there.  (Anyone interested.  It is Dan Porter, a Retribution player). Already have my box pre-ordered though I haven't heard much about the Cygnar caster.  Looking forward to seeing what they have done with Allison Jakes.

[Dhi]

Changes are being previewed almost every day now. 3++ is keeping a comprehensive list, very handy if you just want to see what's affecting your faction.
http://www.3plusplus.net/2016/05/warmachine-mk3-spoilers-summary/

My thoughts on Khador and Circle are that really not much is changing. A couple of Khador options that people really want to play but are not competitive (our colossal and Man O Wars) are receiving buffs. Nothing significant changes within Circle, but our hard counter in Legion of Everblight is getting a nerf: Eyeless Sight no longer ignores forests.

I suppose this stability means Khador and Circle were already in a good place and not much needs to change, which is good. It's also kind of dull to see the game transforming around you and the biggest news you receive is that your favorite warcaster will play exactly the same.

New 2-player battleboxes have been announced with a changeup in the factions. It's Cryx vs. Cygnar for Warmachine, and Trollbloods vs. Skorne for Hordes.

[Revelation]

Seeing the whole legion changes in full does fill me with both excitement and trepidation. The fact that legion is losing a bit of its amazing beast support and part of its Eyeless sight strength does feel a little lame. On the other hand I am all for stronger warbeasts and infantry that can be used for more than pasta-pot fodder. Though we are losing both tenacity and spiny growth so what innate defensive tech we also had is gone. Our carnivean chassis warbeasts are losing speed, but the Scythean is becoming an Infantry mulching machine (thresher and an additional attack die on warrior models means he can easily RFP chunks of infantry), and retains a 3 attack model on a charge against something big (With a bite replacing bloodbath).

Better infantry is something i'd really like. Blighted Ogrun aside from warspears have always been a bit of dead weight so having some really heavy infantry to move alongside the warbeasts would be very good.

[Dhi]

Most or all of the cards are now leaked.
http://www.3plusplus.net/2016/05/warmachine-hordes-full-card-spoilers-leaks/

Dahlia Hallyr and Skarath are the most interesting tweaks for me.

This is a Minions lesser warlock I bought years ago and have never been able to use effectively. Their gimmick is to shut down a 6" radius by interfering with orders. Dahlia is vulnerable while she does this, but Skarath protects her, mostly. She's very vulnerable to AoEs. The two also provide some insurance against frenzy and circumvent toughness, but are too expensive to be for that purpose. Like a lot of Circle they're a toolkit you have to know how to use effectively, so naturally nobody bothers. I don't even know anybody else who owns her.

Dahlia now has 5 health instead of 8, that's really bad. Her weakness is even more glaring than it was before. I'm not convinced they're even looking at the specific models they're changing the health on.

But, Skarath has two interesting changes. First is that his riposte ability is greatly improved. It activates whenever an enemy comes within 6", and it can trigger a spray attack. Since this is their main offense, that's pretty great.

Skarath's bite now inflicts paralysis. He rolls an extra die to attack with it all of the time. So that's going to hit, and after it does everything for the rest of the round is going to hit that model.

[Dhi]

Lock & Load 2016 is happening now, and they're going to announce the new Hordes faction, probably at 9 PST. I'm watching the Twitch off and on.

[Revelation]

Here are some 'leaks'

Kallus2 for legion supposedly

http://i.imgur.com/k0QDEMV.jpg

New trollkin gargantuan

http://i.imgur.com/36c10r8.jpg

New Khador warcaster?

http://i.imgur.com/813cjaw.jpg

[Revelation]

There was about twenty seconds of teaser in the keynote speech, but it's apparently Infernals as the new faction.

[Dhi]

It was short but what it said to me was Grymkin, not Infernals. I think we're getting a fae faction.

[Revelation]

I'm not familiar with Grymkin, where are they? I'll take Fae over Infernals.

[Dhi]

Grymkin are old world fairies. Khador's Old Witch is probably one, as is Circle's Lord of the Feast. I'm looking at some of the others in the old Monsternomicons, which is the only place I remember them appearing. All cruel imps and bargainmakers in the style of Grimm fairy tales. The only variety I really remembered were the rusalka, which are like the Khador equivalent of kelpie. Old wives' tales meant to scare children away from the deep woods, and exactly the kind of thing I wanted to investigate with my Investigator character.

[Dhi]

The 2014 Monsternomicon has a little sidebar on Grymkin:

"Grymkin are malevolent and devious supernatural creatures that visit mischief and violence on all those they encounter. The nature of grymkin is little understood and remains a topic of debate amongst extraordinary zoologists across western Immoren. These creatures are almost certainly not of the natural world, although their origins are as uncertain as their inscrutable motives. Some scholars believe they come from a realm beyond Caen, linking them to beings such as infernals; others consider them to be tangible manifestations of dreams and nightmares. All agree that they seem to visit suffering on intelligent creatures alone and rarely interfere with ordinary animals or beasts. All grymkin seem driven by perverse whims rather than ordinary predatory instincts. Some grymkin are believed to have specific vulnerabilities that circumvent their impressive supernatural capabilities. Some of these claimed disadvantages are incredibly esoteric, but others are quite common, such as the weakness of gremlins against feline predators. Regardless, grymkin have given rise to colorful folklore, though separating fact from fanciful exaggeration can be difficult. In many cases, the demonstrable facts are as outlandish and unlikely as the many stories that have been invented out of whole cloth."

One of the images we were shown was a dregg, a rank and file type, which aren't described as grymkin anywhere. The scarecrow is probably a grymkin. There's another shot of a hollow man, which has some people thinking undead. I think that's Flay, a grymkin living under Corvis with the dregg.

[Revelation]

Well! That could be fun.

I was really holding out for an insect hordes faction or a Zu faction, so even if thye might be unique I admit I am a tad sad.

War room 2 is up, and you get a 20% off discount on faction decks you owned in war room 1 if you have an account.

[Dhi]

The new faction are apparently The Hollow Men. There's no established lore on what that is or what that means. Grymkin are going to be at least a part of it, since there's now a Grymkin keyword in the game that didn't exist before.

I was excited for the theme force news last night, which proposed taking theme forces in an interesting new direction, actual strongly themed forces with palpable benefits rather than the old system of "don't take Sylys, gain an advanced deploy." That excitement has passed with the revelation that each theme force is going to be its own full book.

Theme force rules take literally half a page. How do you fill the remaining 231 pages without any fluff? Is it really wise to hinge the publishing strategy on selling these books when theme forces are a rarely used novelty? I don't understand.

Anyway, the new mark 3 rules are freely available on the website! No more spending $60 on the core book.

Warmchine:
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Prime.pdf

Hordes:
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Primal.pdf

[Dhi]

So as a Circle Orboros player I feel like Tanith might need a nerf. I don't know where you would start, since I've discovered four different ways to break the game with her, but I'm sure the experts can-

(meanwhile, Privateer Press argue vehemently that laying down is meant to be a valid counter to Gang)

Oh.

[Beorning]

I have a question: I've read that Warmachine / Hordes uses 30 mm bases. So, does that mean that the miniatures are bigger than WH40K's?