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Author Topic: Nintendo UK/US cutting out a drugging/gay conversion scene from an upcoming game  (Read 1147 times)

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Offline ThatRPGuyTopic starter

Sorry if the title was a little confusing, I had to reword it quite a few times just to make it fit.

Anyway, I stumbled across this story while I was looking at video gaming news. At first, I couldn't believe that this was in a Nintendo title in the first place, but after checking a few different sources, it seems to be a real thing. Anyway, in a game Nintendo is releasing later this month is the US, the original Japanese version apparently has an NPC who is a lesbian. If you're actively perusing a relationship with this girl as a male protagonist (the game features a custom avatar as the main character, and you can play either gender), eventually you will have a scene in which the character admits she's shy around women she's attracted to, and had trouble approaching them. The main character decides to 'fix' this problem by slipping a drug into her drink (without her knowledge) that makes her see men as women and vice versa. Shortly after the scene, she'll approach the protagonist with a marriage proposal, claiming to have fallen in love with the protagonist when she saw him as a woman, but still loves him as a man.

Nintendo made it public that this scene was stripped from the game (No idea on if that character can still become the protagonists's spouse as a man or not.), along with a few other features, specifically, a minigame that lets the character 'pet' party members using the touchscreen like one would a virtual pet app. They also released a big statement about how the game did not feature any content that was inappropriate for the region in which it was released.

I personally am fine with the cuts they decided to make for the US version, because to me, the game sounds like it would be creepy to play if I had to spend time between fights (it's supposed to be a strategy RPG) gently petting team members, but from what I can tell from the comments section of sites like IGN or gameFAQs, there's a number of people who are quite upset because any form of censorship is bad in their eyes, even the kind voluntarily done by NOA to make the game more enjoyable overseas.

I was wondering what people here might think of the decision. Overall, I agree that censorship is bad, but this wasn't a decision mandated by any government branch (though it may have been enough to earn the game an M rating from the ESRB, the gaming equivalent to an R rating for those that don't follow gaming.), and like I already said, I feel the content they decided to cut makes the game more enjoyable for everyone. Honestly, I'm more shocked that such a scene was in a game like that in the first place.

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How did that scene ever even come into existence? Just reading it on paper (so to speak) Sounds bad! 0_0

What next, Roofie minigames?

Offline Gladiolusopening

Censorship seems often to be a bit of a boogyman these days. But as far as I can tell, no one forced them to do remove the scene, and honestly the idea of drugging and 'converting' a lesbian is pretty gross/homophobic. Especially since conversion therapy is a thing, though thankfully there has been a lot done to discredit it.

I say leave it out. Having some characters being unavailable for romance depending on the player character isn't a new thing anyway, like in Dragon Age.

Offline Aethereal

       While I'm generally fairly strongly anti-censorship, that particular plot point is rather perturbing. Very perturbing, even, and feeds into the ideas that homosexualism can be "fixed" and that slipping people things without their knowledge can work out just fine. Eeh... I don't think putting something like that into a game, and especially there being no harsh in-game punishment for choosing to do such things, is exactly going to benefit anyone. I'm perfectly good with them opting out of doing that.

Offline ThatRPGuyTopic starter

When it's true censorship, I'm opposed, but honestly, I'm not sure the scenes removed would have actually gotten the game banned in the US, just judged as distasteful and given an M rating, which is by no means a death sentence for a game, many best sellers have that rating (for you non-gamers, it's basically an R if it were a movie.). This isn't censorship so much as it is a company deciding for themselves to cut content to make a game more universally appealing.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a smart choice. I say this from the perspective of a gamer who would find this scene (Which apparently happens as a cinematic, not even a player choice. In other words, the game decides that it is something in character for your own personal avatar.) something that would make the game uncomfortable to play, as would the virtual-pet treatment of it's other characters.

Offline Changingsaint

The character in discussion (Soleil) is a bit of a heated subject as far as the game goes. She finds women cute, and prefers women - gamewise however, her marriage/romance candidates are all male and in one support she does mention she doesn't mind guys, but prefers women. The drugging scene is only with the male avatar/lead unit. I don't want to defend it and say it's not bad - it's pretty awfully written, but I don't think it's really drugging/gay conversion.

However, You can read the conversation here As that is the translated support conversations for the character. I have to admit i'm kind of wary of writing this post as I don't want to come off as devil's advocate, I don't like the scene either. I do wonder why she's not a viable marriage candidate for women, given the game already has a same sex relationship for both genders in the game (Zero and Rhajat) so they were clearly not against adding same sex relationships.

Again, like I said, I don't like the scene at all nor how they handled the character, so i'm not trying to defend it or say it's alright or anything. I just wanted to provide some elaboration on what it's about and link it in question.

But I am a little upset they cut out the amie/rubbing stuff. I can understand why, but I don't agree with it, as even Senran Kagura gets away with worse but is still T-rating. Regardless the face rubbing isn't the discussion, and my thoughts are mixed about the support conversation but I do agree it was in poor choice and should be changed, as even looking at it in the most favorable light you could give it, it's still pretty offensive. And at it's worst, well, it's just awful all around.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 11:10:24 PM by Changingsaint »

Offline ThatRPGuyTopic starter

Reading the translation you posted, I will admit that the scene in question isn't quite as thoughtless as sites like nintendolife and digitaltrends (and a few others) made it sound, but still done in very poor taste. Something you mentioned is surprising though; that she isn't an option for marriage for a female character, despite her preferences. The fact that only a male protagonist can court her, despite her tastes, seems like a really bad decision on the writer's part.

I'm honestly a bit disappointed, as I remember early articles praising the game for having same-sex marriage options, a first for Nintendo. I remember a year or so back Nintendo came under a bit of fire and even issued an apology over leaving same-sex relationships out of their life sim Tomodachi Life, pledging to keep a progressive attitude moving forward. When I first heard about the game, it sounded like a big step forward, but it seems Nintendo still has a ways to go. Still, Kudos to the US/Euro teams for stepping up to make the changes necessary for the game to be more universally acceptable.

The petting thing isn't a big loss to me, simply because I'd rather spend my limited gaming time customizing my army and fighting battles, so to me, that's a loss of a feature that would actually slow me down a little if it was necessary to keep morale up, etc. I can understand why it was cut, different cultural values and all that, but at the same time, I can see why someone who wants the full Japanese experience from a JRPG would miss it.

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I can see why someone who wants the full Japanese experience from a JRPG would miss it.

I have to say - in the entirety of my experience playing JRPGs, I have never come across a 'petting mechanic'.  I do remember a thing in Suikoden 1 where talking to your people (is it a party when you have up to 107 members ???) was a definite thing.

Offline ThatRPGuyTopic starter

I loved that game, and you have a point, and I really worded that poorly. What I meant was I can see why someone would want as few of the original Japanese game's features cut as possible. I still stand by that I think the game will be a better experience without the 'magic potion' scene for everyone involved.

Offline Changingsaint

She doesn't exclusively go for the male protagonist. She can marry a number of different guys as well, but the potion/'drugging' scene only happens in a support with the male protagonist, and not with other characters.

The best thing they could have done was make her another same sex relationship candidate/bisexual, and not have that weird support. Unfortunately they didn't do that so we got stuck with the rather poor in taste result. I think changing it is for the best - I don't think they'd outright remove it, as removing it actually creates some issues in the game and completion.

As for the skinship/rubbing, i'm not very angry over it. But it was something that I figured wouldn't be that bad. I'm under the camp of 'Wanting as few of the original games features cut as possible'. But, i'm not particularly upset over it.

Offline Changingsaint

Also for what it's worth, a streamer who has early access has shown what the facerubbing/Amie-esque skinship has been replaced with.

Basically a character talks to you for a bit, a line or two - using the Amie/skinship 2d/3d models. You don't touch them or anything though apparently marriage gives additional events that have not been seen yet. It gives the same support bonus the rubbing game did, so they did not excise it completely.

However the game also lacks Dual Audio, which makes me very sad. Some of the dub voices (Felicia, Effie in particular) are just awful.

Offline Florence

The character in discussion (Soleil) is a bit of a heated subject as far as the game goes. She finds women cute, and prefers women - gamewise however, her marriage/romance candidates are all male and in one support she does mention she doesn't mind guys, but prefers women. The drugging scene is only with the male avatar/lead unit. I don't want to defend it and say it's not bad - it's pretty awfully written, but I don't think it's really drugging/gay conversion.

However, You can read the conversation here As that is the translated support conversations for the character. I have to admit i'm kind of wary of writing this post as I don't want to come off as devil's advocate, I don't like the scene either. I do wonder why she's not a viable marriage candidate for women, given the game already has a same sex relationship for both genders in the game (Zero and Rhajat) so they were clearly not against adding same sex relationships.

Again, like I said, I don't like the scene at all nor how they handled the character, so i'm not trying to defend it or say it's alright or anything. I just wanted to provide some elaboration on what it's about and link it in question.

But I am a little upset they cut out the amie/rubbing stuff. I can understand why, but I don't agree with it, as even Senran Kagura gets away with worse but is still T-rating. Regardless the face rubbing isn't the discussion, and my thoughts are mixed about the support conversation but I do agree it was in poor choice and should be changed, as even looking at it in the most favorable light you could give it, it's still pretty offensive. And at it's worst, well, it's just awful all around.

Sorry to come in here like a week late for something fairly off topic BUT...

... Rhajat? Really? They changed Syalla's name to Rhajat?

I mean, I don't get the concept of changing these names to begin with (particularly because its not even like they're Americanizing them... they're just... changing them for the sake of changing them), but... why would they change her name to Rhajat? Like. No offense if anyone here is actually named Rhajat, but Syalla just sounds like such a more appealing name to say to me.

Edit: Okay, nevermind, I discovered the meaning behind her name and... fair enough... though it does further raise the point of "WHY DID THEY CHANGE SALLYA TO THARJA TO BEGIN WITH!?"
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 12:30:44 PM by Florence »

Offline Changingsaint

Sorry to come in here like a week late for something fairly off topic BUT...

... Rhajat? Really? They changed Syalla's name to Rhajat?

I mean, I don't get the concept of changing these names to begin with (particularly because its not even like they're Americanizing them... they're just... changing them for the sake of changing them), but... why would they change her name to Rhajat? Like. No offense if anyone here is actually named Rhajat, but Syalla just sounds like such a more appealing name to say to me.

Edit: Okay, nevermind, I discovered the meaning behind her name and... fair enough... though it does further raise the point of "WHY DID THEY CHANGE SALLYA TO THARJA TO BEGIN WITH!?"


Some of the name changes are pretty silly. Even things like Harold to Arthur in the english version, they are a bit nonsense and i'm not sure why they changed half the names.

Offline Silk

What is the game in question? I read through and saw no mention of it.

Offline Changingsaint

The game is fire emblem: fates

Offline Renegade Vile

I'm used to seeing some... dubious content in Japanese video games, but Nintendo wasn't a source of it I ever considered. Either way, I'm glad they weren't forced to cut it. I'm pretty sure anyone with a brain would know that what happened in that scene is wrong, but it shouldn't be censored either.
Very strange scene...

Offline Soveliss

From the transcript of the scene, it looks more like the protagonist is a complete idiot with good intentions but no idea what they're doing than a predator. But complete idiots with good intentions but no idea what they're doing would actually be very dangerous in a real situation.

That's my 2 cents on the matter.

Offline Far eyes

....the protagonist is a complete idiot with good intentions but no idea what they're doing....

Isent that kind of a large portion of Anime "hero" type characters, i mean less rapy...  usually. But its basically kind of a trope. I am really picky with my anime so it might just be the bad ones i stumbled into and i have not really touched much anime lately so it might also be an older trope.


Offline Soveliss

Isent that kind of a large portion of Anime "hero" type characters, i mean less rapy...  usually. But its basically kind of a trope. I am really picky with my anime so it might just be the bad ones i stumbled into and i have not really touched much anime lately so it might also be an older trope.

Having read the transcript, it seems less "rapey" and more "why therapy for treating social phobias is best left to professionals", and as I don't watch much anime, I can't tell you on that front.