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Author Topic: War in Afghanistan  (Read 394 times)

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Offline WhatLiesAboveTopic starter

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War in Afghanistan
« on: October 15, 2015, 09:17:45 PM »
So...this was the big story on the news today. President Obama has said that the war in Afghanistan will NOT be ending in 2016 like he originally planned.

Aaaaaaand go.

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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2015, 09:34:09 PM »
See, the problem with wars is that generally you've got someone disagreeing with you.  There has been criticism that in removing troops from certain theaters of war too quickly, the area was left unstable - leading to even more trouble.  There has been criticism that in leaving troops in certain theaters too long (or bringing them in to begin with), additional resentments were stirred up.  Then there are additional factors that no one could have predicted arising.

Long story short, it's really hard to predict when a war is going to end.  You can try.  You can come close sometimes.  But unless all sides agree to cease fire on some particular day and time, it's not going to be an exact science.

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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2015, 09:34:25 PM »
I want to hug all those troopers stuck there, who thought they would be home next year. It isn't fair to any of them. They have given so much more than was asked of them.

I wish only service members would be allowed into office, because they understand sacrifice way more than all those silver spoon bastards on capitol hill. I dont see their sons, brothers, or friends fighting over there!

*sigh* it just never ends does it?

Offline WhatLiesAboveTopic starter

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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 06:49:10 PM »
I want to hug all those troopers stuck there, who thought they would be home next year. It isn't fair to any of them. They have given so much more than was asked of them.

I wish only service members would be allowed into office, because they understand sacrifice way more than all those silver spoon bastards on capitol hill. I dont see their sons, brothers, or friends fighting over there!

*sigh* it just never ends does it?

Many people who hold public office are veterans. However, I strongly oppose a condition of someone being a veteran in order to hold office. Many people who never held office have done great things for the country. However, I am extremely fed up with this war which is the longest war in American History to date.

I think the problem arises from ISIS. Until they are dealt with in Afghanistan, I don't think that the war will ever come to a close.

Offline Mikem

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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 06:57:09 PM »
However, I am extremely fed up with this war which is the longest war in American History to date.

I think the problem arises from ISIS. Until they are dealt with in Afghanistan, I don't think that the war will ever come to a close.

This "war" would have been over long ago if the Politicians just got off their high horse for a moment and realized our original mission had already been accomplished years ago. The Middle East is not our backyard and we have no reason to meddle over there anymore. I feel sorry for the innocent people over there that are plagued by radicals and extremists, but the Afghan National Army needs to get it's own shit together and make their nation a better place on their own.

Offline WhatLiesAboveTopic starter

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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 01:03:47 AM »
For the most part, Mikem, I would absolutely agree. The Middle East is not our back yard. However, if Oraq taught us anything, it's that we have to be able to put a country back together when we completely fuck it up.

Offline Mikem

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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 01:21:55 AM »
For the most part, Mikem, I would absolutely agree. The Middle East is not our back yard. However, if Oraq taught us anything, it's that we have to be able to put a country back together when we completely fuck it up.

Ah but that's why we shouldn't do that in the first place. Hindsight is amazing.  XD

Maybe I'm naive, even though I've seen other people FAR more so than I, but I really don't understand the absolute need to be such a global power bordering on being a modern day Empire. I mean the United States basically is an Empire, but we want to seem like the good guys to the world. Is the rest of the world REALLY that much of a potential backstabbing threat that we need to keep the Military budding into everyone's business? If the next President signed an executive order to close our overseas installations and recalled all our forces back home, I'd support it. If the United States just said, "Screw it, I'm done I'm going home.", would Russia or China go on a sudden expansionist binge which, honestly, would only prove to spark the next world war, and no one wants war...except for North Korea.

I'd understand having a military base or two in Canada since we're neighbors who protect each other. But not one overseas.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2015, 03:10:08 AM »
I think the problem arises from ISIS. Until they are dealt with in Afghanistan, I don't think that the war will ever come to a close.
I'd rather say the Taliban are the problem in Afghanistan. They are not ISIS and predate that bunch by quite a few years.

Quote from: Oniya
Long story short, it's really hard to predict when a war is going to end.
It becomes a lot easier when a war has a clearly defined goal. That goal has to be defined by politicians to achieve a political objective. It's what von Clausewitz meant when he said that "war is the continuation of politics by other means". Problems arise when politicians set goals that are either unacievable by military means, or so ill-defined that it becomes impossible to say for certain if the goal has been achieved or not. Removing dictator X from power is a clearly defined goal and the success or failure can be measured. Once this goal is achieved you could say the war is over (so perhaps 'military action' would be a betterr term than 'war' in this context). If you define the goal as "remove dictator X and build a functioning civil society" things get tricky.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2015, 06:59:55 AM »
Ah but that's why we shouldn't do that in the first place. Hindsight is amazing.  XD

Maybe I'm naive, even though I've seen other people FAR more so than I, but I really don't understand the absolute need to be such a global power bordering on being a modern day Empire. I mean the United States basically is an Empire, but we want to seem like the good guys to the world. Is the rest of the world REALLY that much of a potential backstabbing threat that we need to keep the Military budding into everyone's business? If the next President signed an executive order to close our overseas installations and recalled all our forces back home, I'd support it. If the United States just said, "Screw it, I'm done I'm going home.", would Russia or China go on a sudden expansionist binge which, honestly, would only prove to spark the next world war, and no one wants war...except for North Korea.

I'd understand having a military base or two in Canada since we're neighbors who protect each other. But not one overseas.

Not sure about Russia, but Taiwan would be screwed...

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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2015, 09:03:39 AM »
Not sure about Russia, but Taiwan would be screwed...

Yeah China would jump on them in less than a heartbeat if they had the opportunity.

Offline KalebHyde

Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2015, 10:54:36 PM »
China would definitely be on the move without our presence in the Pacific, Russia and Iran already have their tentacles spreading through the Mideast which would only intensify, and North Korea would likely be storming across the DMZ within days after an American withdraw.  For all our faults,the US and its allies are all that keeps the world out of much larger conflicts.

As for Afghanistan, it is not an ideal situation, but I believe Obama has made a far better decision this time around.  He has likely learned from his mistake in Iraq where his own administration claimed the conflict to be won, pulled troops from the field, and allowed ISIS to rise up.  The military still maintains bases in Germany, Japan, and South Korea for strategic purposes and it appears Afghanistan will just be another on the list.  I truly don't like America being the policemen of the world, but someone has to stand in the breach and no other country is capable.

Offline Mikem

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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2015, 09:09:58 PM »
China would definitely be on the move without our presence in the Pacific, Russia and Iran already have their tentacles spreading through the Mideast which would only intensify, and North Korea would likely be storming across the DMZ within days after an American withdraw.  For all our faults,the US and its allies are all that keeps the world out of much larger conflicts.

You say this like the other parts of the world actually want larger conflicts. The first World War was the beginning of a true catastrophic kind of warfare, the second World War was multitudes more devastating, and after seventy years of technological advancement in munitions, most of, if not the entire world does NOT want to risk another war that would inevitably spread globally if any super, or even major power were involved. And honestly I don't want to think that some countries are just that incredibly stupid to provoke such an outcome.

Besides North Korea. Everyone knows what North Korea would do in a heartbeat.

Offline eBadger

Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2015, 03:59:01 AM »
I really don't understand the absolute need to be such a global power

Well,
most of, if not the entire world does NOT want to risk another war that would inevitably spread globally if any super, or even major power were involved

So logically, if we weren't a major power willing and able to be involved, that risk would be removed.

In addition to the hot spots above, Israel's situation would be terminal; that would almost inevitably result in nuclear events during its death throes.  The Pakistan/India situation would also likely deteriorate, again potentially far enough to result in nuclear engagement. 


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Re: War in Afghanistan
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2015, 04:46:11 PM »
I can't think of many moves more likely to put your troops on a strategic back foot than announcing, ahead of time, when you are going to pull them out.

The correct message, if you are engaged in war, must be "we will stay till the job is done". Any other message is pretty much an open invitation for further insurgency.

As a British outsider, I'm afraid in think Obama has been an utter failure on foreign policy in nearly every regard. He's made America look weak and unsure of itself over and over again.

I can totally get why people would like him domestically, because much of the republican domestic policy is neanderthal at best, but, on the foreign policy front he had been a complete disaster in my external UK based view.