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Author Topic: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination  (Read 4615 times)

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Offline Caehlim

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2015, 04:29:13 PM »
We're paying the CDC $6.9 billion dollars to keep us safe from these diseases.  Quarantines may seem draconian but they're an obvious necessity, and given the Internet and things like that, they're no longer nearly as isolating.

Given that we're paying them this quantity of money (although it is actually relatively small), we should listen to their opinion. Many of the quarantines implemented during the Ebola outbreak were against the recommendation of the CDC.

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Even if we had 100% of people immunized in the USA, you'd still have to protect your newborns from everyone who came in from other countries, isn't immunized and may have brought the disease with them.

85% of children globally are vaccinated. It's pretty much only extremely remote areas of the developing world where the vaccine is not available (from which travel is difficult), people who are medically unable to receive the vaccine and people in the developed world who have chosen not to be vaccinated for inaccurate reasons.

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My dad told me a story about how someone caught measles from being in an elevator a week after someone else who already had it.

This is not likely to be true. Measles is a virus, spread through coughs and sneezes. Baring rare viruses that can form a spore-like outer coating, they do not usually survive longer than periods of time measured in minutes outside of the human body or other similar incubating environment. Elevators are not generally conducive environments to the transmission of disease. A week would be an extraordinary time period for this to occur. Far more likely is that some other contact occurred with an asymptomatic infected person, since with measles people can be infectious four days before symptoms are displayed.

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If we accept that people who don't vaccinate are killing people via negligence, then we can easily apply that same negligence to the people who enter without vaccinating.

Doesn't matter where you're from, choosing not to vaccinate when you otherwise could is taking action that can lead to people's death. Some people don't have that option, in which case it's hardly negligence.

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Amusingly, if you eliminate a disease from a country, vaccinations for it should no longer be even necessary.  I'd still get them, though, just in case one got through the cracks.

In the modern world this isn't really an option. There's too much interconnectivity to think of any country as being isolated.

Offline Oniya

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Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2015, 04:47:59 PM »
According to the CDC, the measles virus has a survival time of less than two hours on environmental surfaces.

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2015, 05:03:07 PM »
The CDC doesn't get nearly enough credit. They have an honest-to-god completely serious page on their website about the necessary preparations to survive a zombie apocalypse. http://www.cdc.gov/phpr/zombies.htm

Offline Oniya

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Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2015, 05:14:01 PM »
It actually started out as a training exercise, because the progression of a 'zombie apocalypse' has a lot in common with the progression of real-world epidemics, without the baggage of 'Oh, well we know what works against that disease.'

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2015, 05:16:27 PM »
Pretty much.  But keeping it around shows they have an actual sense of humor, which is quite unusual for government.


EDIT: And speaking of humor, here's a humor break with something completely absurd.

http://news.yahoo.com/anti-vaccine-book---melanie-s-marvelous-measles---tells-children-to-embrace-disease-164812457.html

Here's the actual Amazon link. The feedback comments are comedy gold.
http://www.amazon.com/Melanies-Marvelous-Measles-Stephanie-Messenger/dp/1466938897/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 06:16:20 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Valthazar

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Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2015, 01:04:32 PM »
My impression is that the "zombie apocalypse" CDC plan describes how the government plans to respond to mass rioters and widespread unrest and disorder (such as the Ferguson debacle on a national scale).

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2015, 01:07:54 PM »
My impression is that the "zombie apocalypse" CDC plan describes how the government plans to respond to mass rioters and widespread unrest and disorder (such as the Ferguson debacle on a national scale).

Yeah, it's the same reason the US Military has CONPLAN 8888-11; you can do a lot of preparation/planning for a real-world scenario or epidemic without causing political fallout or unnecessary panic if you wrap the whole thing in a blatantly fictional wrapper, and that same blatantly fictional wrapper is a big help for plan-writers trying to get out of a rut in their thinking. Plus, if the unthinkable happens and we actually get a zombie plague, there actually is a plan ready to dust off and handle it.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2015, 01:51:00 PM »
Max Brooks himself has said he has a bag called his "earthquake bag" and he says there's nothing in there that he wouldn't need for any disaster. So it's more about getting people to be proactive and not panic.

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #83 on: February 13, 2015, 01:55:21 PM »
Max Brooks himself has said he has a bag called his "earthquake bag" and he says there's nothing in there that he wouldn't need for any disaster. So it's more about getting people to be proactive and not panic.

Same, though I mostly plan for mass rioting and people losing their shit. @_@ Which shares many similarities with my "US invaded by outside power" plan along with my zombie plan.

A lot of disaster preparation stuff works well with one another.

Offline Caehlim

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2015, 11:13:54 PM »
Hank Green with sci-show news talking about the outbreak.


Online Cassandra LeMay

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2015, 03:36:27 AM »
The British The Independent had an article on the topic of vaccination a few days ago. To quote the parts I find most interesting and relevant:

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That’s why the difference between parents and health organisations is one of perspective: governments’ vaccine programmes are ... “population driven”... . Parents, meanwhile, are child-focused.

For most vaccines, there's around a 1 per cent chance of an adverse reaction, and even less of a chance of this being serious. But for the parents I spoke to, this fractional possibility is more than just a number. If your child was unlucky you would live with the guilt forever.

Many sneer at the anti-vaccination movement, but this won't help solve the problem. We need to bring the doubting parents back on board. This means having better information for parents, better data collection on adverse vaccine reactions, and improved training for healthcare professionals on dealing with vaccination queries. Telling unsure parents that the vaccine decision isn’t theirs to make is only going to alienate them further.

As someone here has pointed out earlier, people (in general) don't make stupid decisions because they want to. They take the wrong decisions for reasons that seem right to them at the time.

That said, I do have a question for those here who have children: How much time do doctors take to explain what they are doing, and why they are doing it? Could it help if they had more time (or took more time) to explain to parents why vaccination might be a good idea? Are doctors under too much time pressure to provide more than just a "I'm a doctor so I know what's best for your child"?

Offline Oniya

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Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2015, 10:24:40 AM »
We went through the whole vaccination thing with the little Oni  - They really don't do much explaining other than 'you have to get this done'.  At the time I got pregnant, I had a friend whose daughter was diagnosed with 'Pervasive Development Disorder', which made its appearance shortly after she got the MMR.  Coincidence does not imply causality, but as a new mother a couple years later, seeing my friends with a daughter who was going to require caretakers for the rest of her life, I will admit I was concerned. 

In addition, if you look at the recommended vaccination chart, the doctors were sometimes wanting to administer upwards of 5 shots at a time.  Five or more.  If one of them caused a reaction, be it an allergy or something else, determining which vaccine caused it (so that alternatives could be investigated) would be a nightmare.  We ended up spacing them out so that she only had two at any given visit, and had to explain our reasoning every single time.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2015, 12:46:36 PM »
Vaccinations should always be spaced out. I don't like that doctors are willing to do that. :|

Offline Oniya

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Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #88 on: February 14, 2015, 12:57:47 PM »
I can see logic for both sides of the situation.  From the doctors' point of view, they want to minimize the window in which the child could be at risk of contracting the disease, as well as reducing the amount of office time that gets chewed up by multiple visits.  While the actual injections take barely a moment, there's the intake and the situating of the child to take into account.

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #89 on: February 14, 2015, 05:50:49 PM »
For humor, education, and great justice.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide


Offline Caela

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #90 on: February 14, 2015, 06:04:22 PM »
I've had that going around my facebook recently and absolutely LOVE it every time I see it!

Offline Caehlim

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #91 on: February 19, 2015, 11:33:25 PM »
Hank Green from Sci Show explaining why the anti-vaccine movement exists from a scientific/psychological point of view.


Offline AndyZ

Re: California Measles Outbreak + Anti-Vaccination
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2015, 03:56:23 AM »
Personally, if the CDC is going to do zombie stuff for a training exercise, there's no reason to take it down.  I mean, the website for the movie Space Jam is still up: http://www2.warnerbros.com/spacejam/movie/jam.htm

From a government accountability perspective, it's nice to know what they're using money on, and from a writer's perspective, I like that I could pull that file if I wanted to run a zombie game.