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Author Topic: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments. (Ryuk)  (Read 337 times)

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Offline Garuss VakarianTopic starter

Hello ladies and gents, lieges and other such titles. Welcome to the Alignment Dilemma! Here on this thread. We are to discuss, rant, bicker, and debate on what a characters alignment is. Each week, I will change the subject character, and within we will discuss our personal views and assessments on what his or her Alignment is, and why we think that, agree, or disagree.

Rules: 1, every one be nice, this is a safe place for opinions, no one is dumb for having their own ^^ . 2, every week I will edit this starting post to showcase a new character, to which I will also make a new post announcing it. 3, the topic would be on whichever character is chosen that week, any mentions of other characters is by scenes or to exemplify actions made by the subject character. 4, dont talk about previous characters chosen unless they are brought back to the subject matter or they are an example for talking about the subject character. 5, the point of this is to have personal decisions on what the characters alignment is based upon the universal alignment labels, one is completely alowed to explain the alignment they chose as the propper alignment but none 'have' to. The Alignments are as such;

Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral good, True Neutral, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Evil.

How we chose: Every week I will chose one of our participants in the conversation as a winner to chose the next subject character! Meaning, I will leave it to YOU to decide whom we talk about next. I will simply chose a random board member to be the next judge, to chose who we talk about next.

Character of the week:



« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 02:02:05 AM by Garuss Vakarian »

Offline Beorning

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments.
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2015, 05:45:56 PM »
Alright, I'll take a bite.

I'd say that Smaug is Neutral Evil. I was tempted to say that he's Chaotic Evil, going with his "I kill where I wish" line... On the other hand, though, he is a bit too... passive for a Chaotic Evil character. I mean, after taking over Erebor, he just... slept there for decades. He didn't go after the nearby Laketown - he attacked the place only when he suspected that they were in league with Thorin's company. So, there seems to be a hint of "Stick to my rules and I'll let you be" mentality to him...

Offline Zeth

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments.
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2015, 06:46:15 PM »
I have to agree with the Neutral Evil Label. Some how I don't see a Chaotic Evil dragon stopping to openly mock their foe every few minutes.

Offline Galanthor

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments.
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2015, 06:57:13 PM »
Ok...going a controverse road here and say: Chaotic Neutral.

Mostly based on the fact that Smaug has but one motivator: Greed. He doesn't really kill for killing's sake. As far as i remember he killed only to gain Wealth or once someone steals from him. (granted, he does cause a lot of destruction for it.) So basicly his agressions are inspired by the missing respect for property or life. He bows to noone, but has no real interest in cruelty, which (in my opinion) was the reason why he went to sleep as well: He had so much money that there was no treasure worth the bother anymore.

Offline Zeth

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments.
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2015, 07:16:53 PM »
Yeah, but Smaug takes pleasure in the suffering he causes to others. That seems evil to me. If he didn't waste so much time talking to Bard about how he was going to kill and eat his son, He wouldn't of been shot an thus not died. Being long winded is another evil villain flaw.

Offline Garuss VakarianTopic starter

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2015, 08:47:05 PM »
But, the thing about Nuetral Evil is, that it's typically just the evil of ones nature or creation. Ie: Xenomorphs, are a product of nature. Alien nature, but nature none the less. They are evil, but becouse thats how they survive, kill, devour, procreate. Or the terminator is an apt description of what one typically see's in Nuetral Evil. It is a atomiton of destruction, enacting it's master (Skynet's) commands without any complaint or moral imperative. Though, creatures of thought and personality can be Neutral Evil. To put it short, it's evil without reason.

Smuag can be Chaotic Neutral easily, because of his greed. It is an apt choice for any dragon, for they care only for their Horde. Their treasure. But, he takes to much joy in killing to be Neutral Evil, since Neutral evil is simply by my understanding. Evil because it is whom they are, it is their nature. Chaotic Evil I think may be apt for Smuag. Though he is not one to want the world to burn, and does not openly destroy without cause or reason. (Greed, or taking out possible allies to the dwarvs IE:The town. Or toying with his pray Bilbo, before inevitably seeking to eat him, because Bilbo's a dirty thief in his eyes.) He does take a perverse joy in his actions. A Neutral Evil character would simply kill Bilbo, but a Chaotic Evil one would toy with him.

I say he could very well be a more well worded and patient Chaotic evil, though Chaotic Nuetral also works. Since he is about himself, and though a Chaotic Neutral alignment is Neutral it can be on a side towards good or a side towards self interest. Most Chaotic Neutral characters in my opinion are conflicted between these two thoughts. The right thing, or out for myself? With Smuag he can easily be described as the darker nature of Chaotic Neutral. Sleeping on his horde, until some one gives him a reason to destroy them and all they care for. After all, he is the embodiment of self interest.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 08:54:00 PM by Garuss Vakarian »

Offline Beorning

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments.
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 01:39:03 PM »
I can agree with Smaug being Chaotic Evil. A lazy case of Chaotic Evil, to be exact :)

What I definitely can't agree with is Chaotic Neutral. Chaotic Neutral characters are those that very self-interested... and Smaug is self-interested, yes. But Chaotic Neutral character aren't malicious and are willing to do good things, if it suits their whim of the moment. I definitely can't see Smaug doing anything good... and as it was already mentioned, he definitely takes pleasure in causing destruction.

Okay then! What character shall we discuss next?

Offline Zeth

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments.
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 06:37:25 PM »

 
 Okay let's try Ryuk from Death Note. I say he is some sort of Neutral. He dropped a Death Note in the human world just because he was bored and mostly just observed Light Yagami rise and fall for amusement and only acted when bribed with apples. Not sure if he would be Chaotic Neutral o True Neutral. Thoughts?

Offline Garuss VakarianTopic starter

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments.
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2015, 01:58:49 AM »
Hmm, well Chaotic Neutral in my opinion is like Jack Sparow. Some one who wants to be selfish, but every now and then does good, and that good that he does confuses the hell out of him. Essentialy, in my experience of playing many CHA NUE characters, I play them as conflicted personalities. Both capable of good and evil. Ryuk on the other hand, is a observer. He does not do good, or evil, he just wants to see how things play out in the end. Thus, he is neutral. But, he takes pride, and sick twisted joy in the machinations of Light. He doesn't care who gets hurt and why, he only cares if observing it takes away some of that bordom that comes with the eternal life of an angel of death. (Shinigami, by Japanese folklore.)

Garusses opinion: Neutral Evil; Observes, and stays out of the situation, with no real opinion meant to sway Light in any direction. He simply let's light be light. But has a sadistic joy in the games of death, and manipulation Light enacts.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 02:15:05 AM by Garuss Vakarian »

Offline Beorning

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments. (Ryuk)
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2015, 05:17:26 AM »
Hmmm. The "sadistic joy" would put him into Evil alignment, I'd say. And the fact that he dropped an artifact (? - I don't really know Death Note...) into the world to see what would happen, suggests Chaotic. So, Chaotic Evil?

Offline Zeth

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments. (Ryuk)
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2015, 11:40:32 AM »
Death Note is a modern day earth with no magic or funny business except the Shinigami. The reason why Light/Kira, the human protagonist, got away with killing people with the  notebook at first was no one could believe  writing some one's name down could give them  heart attack. A little insight into the show for those not familiar with it.

 Now Ryuk didn't use his own Death Note. He tricked another Shinigami into giving him his death note then dropped that into the human realm. So it was somewhat premeditated and not done on a whim.

Offline Garuss VakarianTopic starter

Re: The Alignment Dilemma: Where nerds go, to bicker on alignments. (Ryuk)
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2015, 11:50:37 AM »
As zeth said, it was not his own Deathnote. But I think that only furthers your point so I do understand your side. Chaotic evil could very well be true. I only think he is Nuetral Evil from the perspective I gave while watching the show. He is a reaper, and has no bias or opinion as to who gets to die. He has a disconect, one which could easily be nuetral. Good, bad, deserved it or did not. Much like with the terminator, there is no Variables. One would think ar eaper of souls is nuetral, in that they never consider sides. They reap equally. But ya chaotic works to, after all he very may have threw a hammer into the status qoa and said "f this!" to his own kinds principles. But given the fact you dont see him at all pay for this, was he really breaking any rules to begin with?