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Author Topic: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)  (Read 6065 times)

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Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #100 on: December 05, 2014, 04:52:39 AM »
Makes for awkward mating rituals as your not sure is partner a he or she :P.

Offline indarkestknight

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #101 on: December 05, 2014, 04:55:05 AM »
I imagine genders are audibly distinct, as with most races.

Online Sain

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #102 on: December 05, 2014, 06:26:12 AM »
Perhaps they've evolved to have particularly vocal mating rituals too to recognize each other?

Thanks again. Them dragon magazines have such good stuff. In addition to that kung fu genius the Beast strike feat also seems quite nifty. I'm not sure but doesn't this mean that I'd be able to apply the /epic damage type from natural weapons to the unarmed strikes too?

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #103 on: December 05, 2014, 08:37:26 AM »
It would yes. But you do not need it really as if your humanoid with fists and got paragon template then your unarmed strikes ignore DR. Or if got claws but got monk unarmed strike, same deal.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #104 on: December 05, 2014, 09:19:55 PM »
Okay, another question.  If I pick up the Stitched Flesh Familiar feat and use it to replace one of the two regular familiars I get from class levels with, say, an undead raven, could I then go on to spend some money and get said raven Spell-stitched, as well?  I wouldn't expect to just pay the 1,000 gp price tag listed there, of course.  Instead, it would be doubled to 2,000 gp as standard for the market price for magic items, plus it would follow the rules for hired spellcasting and XP costs of 5 gp per XP, so the total cost would be 37,000 gp for a spell-stitched undead raven.

Offline Snake

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #105 on: December 05, 2014, 09:55:26 PM »
Question: if you don't use up all 12 slots for path 3, can you use one of those to catch up in casting level so you'd be a 12th level caster instead of 11th?

Offline indarkestknight

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #106 on: December 05, 2014, 10:08:15 PM »
You could pick up the practiced spellcaster feat or an orange Ioun stone, too.

Offline Lockepick

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #107 on: December 05, 2014, 11:01:10 PM »
Are we forced to take all the racial HDs of a monster we want for Path 3? Or can we drop racial HDs down for other templates and the like?

Right now, I'm considering a Hound Archon
Path 1: Paladin or Crusader or Fighter
Path 2: Cleric
Path 3: Hound Archon with +1 Template?

I actually really want to go for something that worked with bard, but I wasn't finding a race that I thought worked well enough to try.  I'm still musing though.

Offline indarkestknight

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #108 on: December 05, 2014, 11:20:50 PM »
Under Zaer's houserules, Fighter as a class no longer exists. It's been folded into, I think, Knight mostly.

On an unrelated note, an I surprised no one's gunning to play a hulking hurler?

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #109 on: December 05, 2014, 11:30:27 PM »
I actually really want to go for something that worked with bard, but I wasn't finding a race that I thought worked well enough to try.  I'm still musing though.

There's a Forgotten Realms book called Underdark that has a type of underdark-dwelling fey called a Gloura in it.  7 racial HD, +2 LA, and it gets 7 levels of Bard casting for free, so you could go for a theurge class or an arcane casting prestige class that loses a lot of caster levels. ^^

Alternately, if you're more after Bard for the Inspire Courage class feature, Death Knight gives you a rather nice little army of followers to use your inspiring music on, and with a feat and the right equipment choice, you can inspire your entire undead army at once. ^^ You could tack on Undead Leadership as well, get a nice Undead Cohort and yet more followers for your army.  Although, I suppose it's a bit tough to find a nice inherited template to tack on along with it...

Under Zaer's houserules, Fighter as a class no longer exists. It's been folded into, I think, Knight mostly.

On an unrelated note, an I surprised no one's gunning to play a hulking hurler?

You're welcome to it if it's a build you want to play. :P

Offline indarkestknight

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #110 on: December 05, 2014, 11:35:51 PM »
I think the eladrin firre might be an excellent choice as well, if it's within the HD/LA constraints.

As for templates for a death knight... Evolved undead seems appropriate?

I certainly could run a hulking hurler but it's not really my speed. Even if it would be absolutely monstrous under these rules.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #111 on: December 05, 2014, 11:52:45 PM »
Firre Eladrin is too high, unfortunately.  8 HD, +10 LA.  Although the Coure Eladrin could be fun if anybody wants to basically be Navi. :P

If Zaer will let you fill out the rest of your ECL with multiple Evolved Undead levels, since it's a template that's meant to stack with itself, that could certainly fit in well.  Toss in Silverbrow Human as your base race for that sweet Dragonblooded subtype and you could even do Dragonfire Inspiration shenanigans. ;D

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #112 on: December 06, 2014, 05:49:26 AM »
Okay, another question.  If I pick up the Stitched Flesh Familiar feat and use it to replace one of the two regular familiars I get from class levels with, say, an undead raven, could I then go on to spend some money and get said raven Spell-stitched, as well?  I wouldn't expect to just pay the 1,000 gp price tag listed there, of course.  Instead, it would be doubled to 2,000 gp as standard for the market price for magic items, plus it would follow the rules for hired spellcasting and XP costs of 5 gp per XP, so the total cost would be 37,000 gp for a spell-stitched undead raven.

I allow it, it's quite a money sink as familiars go but I allow it. Make familiar undead and then 'upragde' your undead minion be spell-stictched as well.

Question: if you don't use up all 12 slots for path 3, can you use one of those to catch up in casting level so you'd be a 12th level caster instead of 11th?

Are we forced to take all the racial HDs of a monster we want for Path 3? Or can we drop racial HDs down for other templates and the like?

Right now, I'm considering a Hound Archon
Path 1: Paladin or Crusader or Fighter
Path 2: Cleric
Path 3: Hound Archon with +1 Template?

I actually really want to go for something that worked with bard, but I wasn't finding a race that I thought worked well enough to try.  I'm still musing though.

You do not need fill entire 12 levels in third path but you cannot use the third path for anything else (like add CL unless base creature provides it inside racial HD). So if you play drow and do not add any templates on it, then you got 10 empty wasted third path levels. Also note monster class levels will not be used either in there.

Anyways it's correct that Fighter as a class no longer exist as it's mostly merged in with the Knight class (and samurai got huge update). Knight is flavorful base class and would fit very well to Hound Archon (or Crusader for that matter). Anyways as note cleric does have UA variant which sacrifices rebuke/turn undead for some paladin traits (or think other PrC's for clerics as in my house rules I did not change them much at all as they got plenty nice PrC's options and their spellcasting and domains are potent class features themselves, mostly focus on tier 4 or lower classes raised up in the ladder bit higher so they do not play entirely second fiddle for spellcasters).

Offline indarkestknight

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #113 on: December 06, 2014, 06:00:54 AM »
Struggling a bit to find templates to apply to an invisible stalker.

Concept is that, before Yan-C-Bin was open about his intentions to eliminate all rivals to his dominion over the Plane of Air, he invited the Great Caliph of the Djinn and Chan to work with him to create a being of purest air. Yan-C-Bin secretly corrupted their efforts, though, slipping into the ritual a way to control the new elemental - which, in turn, allowed mages and arcanists to bind the invisible stalkers of whom the first invisible stalker is progenitor. He turned the first invisible stalker into his assassin, his thief, and his spy, leaving the invisible stalker no choice in the matter as Yan-C-Bin used the invisible stalker to incriminate Chan in his crimes against the Great Caliph and the Great Caliph in his crimes against Chan, hoping that, when the dust settled in a battle between the two, he could finish off the weakened victor. The invisible stalker, however, was sealed away before Yan-C-Bin's plans could come to fruition.

The invisible stalker struck a deal with Ao when he was released - he is now free of the hold Yan-C-Bin and those others might have over him... and if he succeeds in the task, Ao might free the other invisible stalkers from the weakness that allows arcanists to bind them.

Thinking True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral fits best - Which is unfortunate because the demonically infused template which would give him constant haste (great with swiftblade) would require him to be chaotic evil. Not particularly interested in having him wrestle with/angst over a demonic side, either. So. Suggestions, given the backstory, anyone?

I could always just advance his racial hit die - I would get a small benefit of... 8 more HP if I use his remaining 4 LA on racial HD, but it's the only benefit I'd see for using racial hd instead of a template.

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #114 on: December 06, 2014, 06:25:31 AM »
How many times I need repeat this; You cannot add further racial HD to your monster side! Besides racial HD and LA you can only add templates (inherited and/or gained).

Anyways evolved undead template is rare exception where you can take more than once with it. You can stack it all way up to 12 class/HD limit with it. So example vampire lord can only take it once but a lich (which is +4 gained undead template) could take it 8 times in row (using a base race which has no LA nor racial HD assuming).

Edit; Just to add the racial paragon class levels are different thing. So example drow +2 LA along with 3 levels as drow paragon to third gestalt path (along with any gained or inherited templates) is okay. But not say if base creature has 6 HD and +4 LA you fill remaining 2 levels with +2 more HD.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 09:06:22 AM by Zaer Darkwail »

Online Sain

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #115 on: December 06, 2014, 06:31:12 AM »
@Indar. 8 more hp isn't going to be relevant since you're likely well on your two hundreds at least here. If you need excuse to be CE, how about some classic rage control issues. Although, that might be a bit boring so maybe you could just work something internally chaotic and evil into the very being. Since he was a created being, something went awry in the creation process and aside from Yan-C-Bin wanting to back stab his friends the secondary (probably even main) reason for tampering with the ritual to gain control. It's difficult to create a powerful being from scratch so one might think that adding a functional personality into that already complex project would sometimes be considered as an optional step if you can somehow avoid it. Maybe Ao only made it seem like he struck a deal with the stalker, when in reality the stalker was tricked into thinking it was a deal and Ao just wanted to seal him before he could free himself.

e. Physical might part is so difficult to get sorted out :D I noticed that warblade would only benefits that the sphinx already gets from elsewhere, and besides I don't know how much sense fluff wise it would make since she's primarily natural weapon fighter. With such high int I don't think it makes much difference between taking rogue or something so I'm at the moment hovering over perhaps picking some filling until Horizon walker. Monk2/Ninja10 might also have been nifty but it's now a spellcaster. Draconic shaman (a non spellcaster right?) might be fun but I would have to make the sphinx either worship some puny reptiles. Maybe lizard worship was a big thing in the culture she originated from or she just became really obsessed and studious over them, wanting to become more like a dragon herself too...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 08:07:23 AM by Sain »

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #116 on: December 06, 2014, 09:10:35 AM »
Dragon Shaman is not spellcaster but it has mystic powers otherwise. But so is warblade and so dragon shaman can count as physical side. Also worship of dragons is very ancient thing and it may be just wanting become a more dragon-alike than worship a specific wyrm.

As note Dragonfire Adept counts as caster (invocations you know). However with Dragon Shaman I allow exception if you take ACF which replaces one aura known in 5th level for single least invocation I allow it to be still a physical side might.

Another class which fits very well for high int is Factotum albeit their skills go to mystical side than physical. Also in my house rules ninja counts as mystical side as it gets spellthief spellcasting (and spell stealing) powers.

Offline Lockepick

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #117 on: December 06, 2014, 09:32:55 AM »
Just to be clear: Hound Archon is LA +5 with 6 Racial HDs -- I can basically choose not to take any of those Racial HDs if I desire? The paragraph where you covered it talked about a few topics, so I wanted to make sure.

I'll take a look at some options -- if I find a lot of overlap between Paladin and Cleric -- I'll probably go Crusader. I need to look at all of them, but I was trying to hammer out a race I'm interested in.

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #118 on: December 06, 2014, 10:10:17 AM »
Uh, you need take the racial HD of the base creature (you cannot ignore it). I just mentioned you cannot add further dice atop it. Unless some weird template says 'adds HD to base creature' like lycantrophe template does (so in sense a bugbear which has three HD + 1 LA and then becomes natural born wereape adds +4 HD from ape animal and +3 LA from lycantrophe template itself). As note lycantrophe you can choose is it inherited (natural lycantrophe) or inflicted/gained (thus afflicted lycantrophe).

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #119 on: December 06, 2014, 01:56:20 PM »
Perhaps you could be a Fallen Hound Archon?  Lolth-Touched is only a +1 LA template, but it adds +6 to Strength and Constitution.  That could be pretty fun, and aside from the name of the template, there's nothing really tying it to Lolth, if you'd rather not be tied to her in your backstory.

Offline Lockepick

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #120 on: December 06, 2014, 02:33:56 PM »
Ah, that was my first assumption.

So I'm a little worried about the... potency of Vampire Lord. I'm not sure there are any other options that offer such a huge amount of LA without clogging it up with RHDs. After all, in a gestalt system, the only thing we'll really be getting from our Racial HD is MAYBE HP (if you're Undead) and MAYBE Skill Points (if you're an Outsider).

I can't find a link for Vampire Lord since WoTC took down their web enhancements, so I can't be more specific. I'd just say it's not a surprise that a couple people are already considering Vampire Lord..

Offline indarkestknight

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #121 on: December 06, 2014, 02:42:37 PM »
Looks like the Vampire Lord template can be found here and here.

May just forgo using up my LA.

Offline Lockepick

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #122 on: December 06, 2014, 02:49:22 PM »
Eh, after double reading it -- it's really only the Domination that will be a... thing. But I suppose fighting CR30s will have the saves to counter it anyway.

Concern withdrawn.

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #123 on: December 06, 2014, 03:04:28 PM »
Vampire lord is very powerful template, so that's why it has +11 LA (+8 LA is from basic vampire and then +3 LA from +3 CR adding and I think removing most vampire weaknesses along with boosts deserves it). Meaning only +1 remains for base creature or add evolved undead to get minor boost and another spell-alike ability.

Also note some creatures are immune to mind-affecting (undead included) so domination may not work on them.

Online Sain

Re: Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)
« Reply #124 on: December 06, 2014, 03:08:10 PM »
The variance in power levels is going to be noticeable anyway at this sort of level unless everyone has the exact same build, but I wouldn't be too worried about the possibility since the campaign (if I got the right initial impression) wasn't to be so much about beating 30 CR encounters as it would be about being monsters that do whatever enormously powerful monsters do once they're freed from their eternal prison and suddenly hearing that they're supposed to work for the entity that sealed them away. That said, I'm surprised anyone hasn't considered Dweomkeeper as part of their mythical path so far or at least I haven't noticed anyone looking at it.