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Author Topic: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]  (Read 6817 times)

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Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #250 on: May 18, 2014, 01:10:44 PM »
Heh.  Way back in the day (like, 1e), the Warhammer world was explicitly a planet in the 40K universe, surrounded by impenetrable warp storms. So in a way, Earth did exist in the Warhammer universe once upon a time. There was a worldwide campaign back in 2001 that had a bunch of campaign-specific 'magical artifacts' that were just thinly-veiled 40K technology wargear, but they've drifted away from this since then.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #251 on: May 18, 2014, 01:30:08 PM »
Heh.  Way back in the day (like, 1e), the Warhammer world was explicitly a planet in the 40K universe, surrounded by impenetrable warp storms. So in a way, Earth did exist in the Warhammer universe once upon a time. There was a worldwide campaign back in 2001 that had a bunch of campaign-specific 'magical artifacts' that were just thinly-veiled 40K technology wargear, but they've drifted away from this since then.
I can see that. Though I think it was probably a smart choice to differentiate the two.

I also don't mind the NewCron back-story. I've read lots of summations of both and I think the NewCron is less bland if a little straightforward.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #252 on: May 18, 2014, 01:34:39 PM »
It took time to grow on me, but I love Newcrons. Oldcrons were mysterious and menacing, faceless and unstoppable. Great novel antagonists (Necrons in the Cain books are terrifying), but when the Tyranids have more characterization than you, it becomes a problem to play/be that race as a protagonist/army perspective.

Newcrons are Tomb Kings IN SPAAAAAAAACE, but got the fleshing out (pun intended) that they desperately needed to become interesting.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #253 on: May 18, 2014, 03:16:36 PM »
Well they're basically an army of Terminators. :P

The tau are sort of growing on me, from that powered armor perspective. I like how they're each basically mini-mechs.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #254 on: May 18, 2014, 03:20:56 PM »
Which is a good example. Oldcrons were very much T1 Terminators - implacable antagonists. But the Terminator from T1 would have sucked as the protagonist character from T2, so they had to upgrade/rewrite him to be more human and gave him a personality (of sorts).

Tau were my first army, and they'll always hold a special place for me. Though I liked how they were originally a genuine bright spot in the 40Kverse, and the gradual trend of grimdarkifying them to be as bad as everyone else still doesn't sit right in my gullet.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #255 on: May 18, 2014, 03:25:25 PM »
Which is a good example. Oldcrons were very much T1 Terminators - implacable antagonists. But the Terminator from T1 would have sucked as the protagonist character from T2, so they had to upgrade/rewrite him to be more human and gave him a personality (of sorts).

Tau were my first army, and they'll always hold a special place for me. Though I liked how they were originally a genuine bright spot in the 40Kverse, and the gradual trend of grimdarkifying them to be as bad as everyone else still doesn't sit right in my gullet.
They were always gray though. They were good inasmuch as they'd let you surrender. They've always been a communo-fascist caste-driven society.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #256 on: May 18, 2014, 03:30:29 PM »
Sure, but they didn't really need the forcible brainwashing and sacrificial cannon-fodder usage of 'partner' races (Vespid) or the quiet sterilization of entire planets of converted non-Tau races (Dawn of War campaign, which is dub-canon but referenced in later codex material).

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #257 on: May 18, 2014, 03:32:31 PM »
Sure, but they didn't really need the forcible brainwashing and sacrificial cannon-fodder usage of 'partner' races (Vespid) or the quiet sterilization of entire planets of converted non-Tau races (Dawn of War campaign, which is dub-canon but referenced in later codex material).
I don't play the game proper, I don't have hundreds of dollars to drop on it, so my exposure comes from my own research (basically 40K Wiki) and the Relic games.

Gosh I hope Sega gets their ass in gear. I could use Space Marine II.

EDIT: I used to like the idea as orks being homicidal plants/mushrooms, then they retconned them to red blood. Oh well, thems the breaks.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 03:36:48 PM by Inkidu »

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #258 on: May 18, 2014, 03:44:21 PM »
Yeah, that's lame. Though now they're some screwy fungus-animal hybrid with multiple DNA strands intertwined or something, so it's not a whole lot different besides having red blood instead of green. They still breed with spores and all that craziness.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #259 on: May 18, 2014, 04:51:51 PM »
Sorry, yeah. The Eldar were a servitor-race of the Old Ones. Pre-5E, it was pretty explicit that the Old Ones created the Orks as well, as a pure weapon of war that felt no fear and so was immune to the existential despair caused by the Nightbringer C'tan and its minions.

Go back further and the Brain Boyz were the Snotlings who created the Orks as a warrior / servitor race. Then the Orks ate all the special fungus that the snotlings needed to keep smart, and they devolved into the snotlings of today.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #260 on: May 18, 2014, 05:02:48 PM »
I love orks just because they run on troll logic. So I'm not shocked by that at all.

EDIT: Playing Dark Crusade. It rubs me the wrong way that Space Marines have to fight Imperial Guard and vice versa. The IG has no hope of taking on space marines without some Leman Russ tanks or some heavy armor. :P

(That being said I hate trying to take their stronghold the most; they get the Baneblade, and they get them quickly.)

EDIT: Question: So, humanity's heyday was in the Dark Age of technology which is before the Iron Men and that Rebellion. Well, humanity had Gellar fields and whatnot. Did they ever meet any of the aliens in the rest of the universe before the Age of Strife?

EDIT: Dawn of War I might not be as tactical as the tabletop game, but whoo-boy does it follow in spirit. Necrons are tough. :|
They're giving my space marines a run for their money. Thankfully the SMs are really adaptable. I deployed three squads of tacticals with plasma weapons. Even slicing through them like tin cans that ability of theirs to just get up keep fighting is nuts.

I was basically yelling, "In the name of the Emperor, finish this!" at my screen. Thankfully I came prepared. They've been known to chew up assaults and the unequipped.  If you want to see something sad try Necrons vs Imperial Guard without fire support. Imperial guard smoothies fresh for the slurping.

EDIT: More questions! :D

Really simple. A lot of space marines have these "bolts" in their foreheads. They look like bullets or bolts, what are they? Captain Titus has two.

Also Dawn of War II is awesome! I like the more tactical cover-based approach as opposed to swarming with space marines.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 10:21:07 AM by Inkidu »

Offline consortium11

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #261 on: May 19, 2014, 03:37:22 PM »
If you want to see something sad try Necrons vs Imperial Guard without fire support. Imperial guard smoothies fresh for the slurping.


That's pretty true for IG vs every other race in the game as well. IG tactics basically revolve around having a big enough meatshield to hold the opposition in place so the fire support can blow them up.

It also basically follows the lore; against any meaningful opponent the IG's main duty is to die in their (tens to hundreds of) thousands while inflicting a few casualties before the heavy artillery (figuratively and literally) come in to save the day.

Really simple. A lot of space marines have these "bolts" in their foreheads. They look like bullets or bolts, what are they? Captain Titus has two.

Essentially long service medals/studs.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #262 on: May 19, 2014, 03:42:55 PM »
Yeah, the forehead studs are basically the Space Marine version of service medals. Not sure how long each of them represents, though.

Offline consortium11

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #263 on: May 19, 2014, 03:49:16 PM »
Yeah, the forehead studs are basically the Space Marine version of service medals. Not sure how long each of them represents, though.

Depends on the Chapter and the type of stud if I recall correctly; normally 10, 50 or 100 years.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #264 on: May 19, 2014, 04:05:55 PM »
Hardcore medal-pinning because grimdark. :P

I do wonder though if pre-Imperium humanity met any of the other races in the 40K-verse though.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #265 on: May 19, 2014, 04:15:41 PM »
There are a ton of minor/unnamed/non-codex aliens, lots of whom were killed off by the expanding Imperium during the DAoT, so they definitely met some aliens. As for 'codex'/major races....

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology

Eldar and Orks: Yes and yes.
Tyranids: Still in transit.
Tau: Primitive barbarians.
Necrons: Zzzzzzzzzz.....


Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #266 on: May 19, 2014, 06:40:03 PM »
Thanks.

Also I did more research and the Tau getting more grimdark has to do with them being seen as the sympathetic "good" faction. Games Workshop does not like that kind of thing. They'll always add something sinister or play up the jerkass tendencies of the species to make it less sympathetic. I don't have that problem.

EDIT: Playing Dawn of War II and holy crap. Having fun demonstrating superior Imperium tactics to the filthy green skin hordes. Then suddenly tyranids start dropping all over the place. At this point tactics went out the window other than put as many bullets between them and us as possible. :P

I called in artillery strikes on baseline grunts. Though given the fact that exterminatus is the go-to response for most imperial engagements I think my response was rational and warranted.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 09:42:58 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Warlock

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #267 on: May 21, 2014, 07:25:27 AM »
Newcrons are Tomb Kings IN SPAAAAAAAACE, but got the fleshing out (pun intended) that they desperately needed to become interesting.




Tyranids are my favorite race I think. There's a mention in either an Ork Codex or Tyranid Codex of the two races continually fighting, always evolving, can't imagine when those Tyranids are let loose on the rest of the universe or having an entire WHAAAAAGH!!! of Orks being the equivalent of a Big Boss compared to other Orks. Tyranids also ate the Squats, so there's a possibility that we'll see bearded Nids with axes somewhere along the future. ^^

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #268 on: May 21, 2014, 07:55:20 AM »
He mentioned the unmentionable! *Exterminatus!*

My problem with tyranids is they're basically the new old necrons. They don't have a a whole lot of backstory and their motivation while fitting isn't exactly original. I mean OMNOMNOMING the entire universe is fine and all, just not original.

Still when you want to play something that's walking destruction they're fun. :)

Offline Kevben Battleheart

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #269 on: May 21, 2014, 08:10:01 PM »
Heh, the Tyranid would fear me if I was an IG commander, if they could feel something like fear. I know how to set up a firing line in DoW2 as the IG and nothing short of bringing in the heavy armor would break my lines.

Tabletop though I'm more of a Vlka Fenryka kind of guy (as if my profile didn't already hint at this). Just some of the ways I could mess with someone if the conditions are right, like for example if I had Ragnar grouped with 14 Blood Claws. With Ragnar's special rule Insane Bravado, for those who don't know, I have to roll a d3 for an assault and I get 1+ whatever I roll for attacks instead of just 1, and not just for Ragnar but for the entire squad. If I get lucky and roll a 3, that means each unit is getting 4 attacks each, rounding up to a whopping total of 60 attacks. But then say I also have Logan Grimnar and he's within about 15'' of Ragnar. I could use his special rule, Living Legend, to give each of those Blood claws and Ragnar an additional attack, bring the total to 75.

Not to mention Bjorn is just a straightup badass in his own rights. >.>

Offline Warlock

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #270 on: May 22, 2014, 03:43:23 AM »
He mentioned the unmentionable! *Exterminatus!*
I live on Holy Terra, go ahead. I dare you.

Kevben, that hurts. Can imagine that working well and would chew up most units, provided you can get them in one piece into the enemy since you can't go with a Transport for them.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #271 on: May 22, 2014, 05:23:34 AM »
Fine then I'm sending the Gray Knights. :P

I love the imperial guard. They're job is to basically slow down the enemy by making him wade through their corpses. Though if they can get some armor they can pretty much win the day on their own sometimes.

My motto for the imperial guard has always been, "We'll make them regret the day they killed us!"

Offline Warlock

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #272 on: May 22, 2014, 05:41:10 AM »
Fine then I'm sending the Gray Knights. :P

I love the imperial guard. They're job is to basically slow down the enemy by making him wade through their corpses. Though if they can get some armor they can pretty much win the day on their own sometimes.

My motto for the imperial guard has always been, "We'll make them regret the day they killed us!"
Grey Knights? I'd rather take my chances with an Exterminatus or listning to an Adeptus Soritas sermon. *Surrenders*

Would be nice to be a Commisar in the Imperial Army, they're the most badass units in the Imperium, putting more fear into their fellow humans than even Deamon Princes.
I wonder what would happen if he's the last of a squad and use ''Summary Execution'' on himself to stay and fight.

Offline Kevben Battleheart

Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #273 on: May 22, 2014, 10:45:06 AM »
I live on Holy Terra, go ahead. I dare you.

Kevben, that hurts. Can imagine that working well and would chew up most units, provided you can get them in one piece into the enemy since you can't go with a Transport for them.
Oh but I can transport all of them. Granted it would mean I would have to take a Land Raider Crusader and 250 points is a lot to invest just to transport em all, but then it could be worth it if I'm lucky and the conditions are right. But that would most likely work against an army that uses mobs like the Orks or the 'Nids. Can't see it working to well against a mobile army or one that relies on armor/air support.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Crush the Xenos Scum! [40k discussion]
« Reply #274 on: May 22, 2014, 08:46:47 PM »
Oh wow, I just read a three line theory and I love it.

Okay, so Orks have a powerful latent psychic ability that allows them to warp reality around them if enough believe it. (i.e. the red wunz go fasta')
Orks love to fight, it's what they live for, they don't care about anything else.
In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.

Think about it.