Topic: Clarification?

[Cerelia]

This is going to sound really silly, but can someone explain what the difference between non-consensual sex and rape? By definition they're the same thing...but I've seen people say they're okay with non-con and completely against rape and I just don't understand D:

[Mithlomwen]

Essentially Non-con and rape are the same thing.  If I had to guess, I think they might mean that they are okay with coercion rather than Non-con. 

[Koren]

I cant speak for everyone but for me the difference is this:
Rape, forced and the victim is against it from start to end, sometimes violent but not always.
Non-con, victim is only against it at the start, agrees to it before it goes too far along or in the middle. more coerced as opposed to fully forced

Again, might not be the same for everyone, but thats the divide I have in my mind

[Cerelia]

Thank you, you guys! This really helped :)

[Nadir]

I was wondering this recently too, and was told by someone who runs a publishing house that non-con is not making it clear that a character want the sex that's happening, but there isn't a lot of signs that indicate a character don't want it. Rape is when "no" or the like is said, or the character struggles in some fashion against their attacker.

[LunarSage]

My take is that folks who say they don't like rape but like Non-Con probably mean they're against rape and Non-Con but like 'Consentual-Non-Consentual' scenes.  These are scenes in which the character is taken unwillingly, but secretly enjoys it, or who secretly wanted it in the first place.  There are a lot of couples who practice CNC-play in real life.

I hope that helps a bit.  As always, just my take. 

[GothicFires]

to me non-con and rape ARE the same thing. non-consensual means without consent. With coercion, it is something that the person wouldn't agree to with out persuasion, even if it is aggressive persuasion.

I don't do non-con. For me after my character is raped it's pretty much the end of the story... or at least my character chasing after the other with a gun to take revenge. It's just not enjoyable.

But someone being aggressively persuasive, i like it. Of course it's a thin line, because if my character decided they didn't want it at all then they would be raped. But it's enough of a line to be ok with me. I have coercion games, one of them is in a bondage section and not the non-con section.

[RedPhoenix]

There is a couple things it can mean.

1) it actually means rape they just don't want to say it.

2) they enjoy "no means yes" situations where the character really does want it but is feeling pressure not to give in and so acts like they don't.

3) the other character simply doesn't wait to find out if they want it or not, and the answer would have been yes.

4) surprise sex between characters who otherwise would have consented but just don't have the chance to.

If you ask me 2-4 are consensual, but people differ on this.

[Vekseid]

This is going to sound really silly, but can someone explain what the difference between non-consensual sex and rape? By definition they're the same thing...but I've seen people say they're okay with non-con and completely against rape and I just don't understand D:

Usually this sort of distinction refers to quasi-consensual scenes that cover a good part of what actually goes on in the non-con forums. Most roleplay here involves mutual enjoyment, since that is what the players are after in the first place.

[Cecilia]

In the publishing world, the term "rape" gets a story banned from places like "Smashwords" and even Amazon.  (unless it is nonfiction, or not meant to titillate.). When it comes to the erotica market, almost every publisher lists rape as one of their no-nos on their websites.  Talking to the editors directly, I have had several admit that they use the term"non-con" in many cases as code for "this story might include rape." There are some studies that show a high percentage of women have "rape fantasies." this does not mean they ACTUALLY want to be raped.  It is just the fantasy they find appealing.  It's a cognitive disconnect for many people to enjoy the fantasy and not the reality, but non-consensual does help bridge the gap and make the consumption of rape fantasy more palatable.

[Oniya]

Non-con can also include both the 'No... No... No... Yes!' variety, and something often called 'dub-con' or 'dubious consent' - for example, a couple that gets together while one or both are drunk or drugged - where consent may not be legally possible.

If I'm going so far as to call a story a 'rape story', it's going to be 'No... No... No... No!'

[Beguile's Mistress]

A writer friend explained it as:

Rape = No! No! No! No! NO!!!!!!

NonCon =  No!  Um, no.  Nuh uh.  *sighs* Ok.  WOW!

More than half of the contemporary romance stories have some sort of plot where A knows A shouldn't but B's lust overpowers A's decision because A can't resist.

[Blitzy]

I do not like my characters to not enjoy sex. I say non-con because they are unwilling at first and they get swept away with the pleasure. I am not against rape in my stories because it's rape, but more against it because I feel it silly and boring to have a character hate EVERYTHING and spend the whole time crying/sobbing/broken, etc.