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Author Topic: Pathfinder MMO  (Read 1783 times)

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Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Pathfinder MMO
« on: January 09, 2013, 09:03:04 PM »
Environment Demo

Interesting considering they took like 6 months to code it up.

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 12:55:00 AM »
Aaaan I fell through a wall and got stuck *laughs*

The chief problem with MMO's is that they rarely have any RPG elements in them, sometimes even less than single player RPGs. Pathfinder's still an RPG system and translating the setting just for action purposes leaves out so much of what it offers. Also, this environment took them that long to code? They're using Unity, 3/4s of the work has been done for them...

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 06:10:11 PM »
It's going to be a free to play title, yes?

I mean, it looks cute, but it's nothing that DDO or Age of Conan haven't done already.

Offline Skynet

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 06:19:16 PM »
According to the rpg.net thread, (can't find the posts) the developers seemed relatively unconcerned about potential griefing.  In the MMO, people can play as Chaotic Evil bandits and cultists and attack other players unprovoked.  This is not conductive to a healthy online environment, and Dancy and crew thinks that "the community will regulate itself."

Didn't work for EVE Online, won't work for Pathfinder.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 06:20:22 PM by Skynet »

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 06:39:14 PM »
Dancy?  As in Ryan Dancy?  The man behind the debacle that was the OGL?  And the one who nearly sunk the confidence in White Wolf, by calling it a 'legacy'?

The man still works in the RPG industry?  And now he's working for Paizo?

OK, then, time to avoid this.

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 03:28:20 AM »
According to the rpg.net thread, (can't find the posts) the developers seemed relatively unconcerned about potential griefing.  In the MMO, people can play as Chaotic Evil bandits and cultists and attack other players unprovoked.  This is not conductive to a healthy online environment, and Dancy and crew thinks that "the community will regulate itself."

Didn't work for EVE Online, won't work for Pathfinder.

Indeed. Most players are inherently, forgive my bad language, assholes and need some form of regulation enforced upon them or they'll tear each other apart. Either the person got screwed over in some form before and is now frustrated and out for a vengeance, or the person was just a badly behaving player to begin with. No matter the choices, this isn't a good design idea AT ALL.

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 07:08:31 PM »
"This seems completely contrary to what I've seen and read. First, the environment demo is not remotely a good example of what they're doing with the game yet. It's basically just the first draft, and the bulk of the strength of the game isn't in graphics. I seriously can't stand the idea that a game cannot be graphically subpar and still be far better than anything out there (I've never once spent hours discussing how 'nice' my favorite game looked...)"

"Players often are assholes, but I've seen enough to believe Goblinworks intends to curb that behavior. They're the first company that I've seen that seems to take a strong view to being an active part of their game world."

"The environment demo is a terrible way to point out anything about this game. I'm willing to admit I'm skeptical about the ability for Goblinworks to pull off what they want to do (which is to create an MMO where the G caters to the RP). However, if no one supports the games that try (and maybe inevitably fail), all we'll get is shitty WoW style theme park games forever."

"Even if it's just to support a push in the right direction, they could use a boost: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-a-fantasy-sandbox-mmo. Of note, they don't need that kickstarter to succeed, the game's on track to be made either way. The Kickstarter is full of goodies that aren't even related to the MMO (and goodies that are)."
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 07:14:59 PM by Ryuka Tana »

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2013, 05:43:17 PM »
With mere HOURS left. They got it funded. While I have reservations on the game I will say this. This shows the big boys out there that there IS interest in MMOs not modeled on WoW.

Offline Skynet

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 05:54:16 PM »
I really don't know if it will work out (I'm not impressed so far), but I wish them the best all the same.

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 05:56:12 PM »
"Thank the fans for that too, it's amazing. 11th hour boosts are common on Kickstarter, but to get over $100k in less than a day is fricken amazing."

"As I said, I have my skepticism, but if this game manages to pull off most of its promises, the value of not only a sandbox MMO, but a fan-funded one, will pave a strong path for future MMOs."

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2013, 09:39:45 PM »
According to the rpg.net thread, (can't find the posts) the developers seemed relatively unconcerned about potential griefing.  In the MMO, people can play as Chaotic Evil bandits and cultists and attack other players unprovoked.  This is not conductive to a healthy online environment, and Dancy and crew thinks that "the community will regulate itself."

Didn't work for EVE Online, won't work for Pathfinder.

Didn't work for EVE? It's still working for EVE. EVE's relative lack of moderation when it comes to player interaction is amazing.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2013, 09:49:09 PM »
Quote from: Courtesy of the Kickstarter
1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse. You don't train any faster by farming mobs or spamming your abilities than you do exploring the world, role playing with your friends, or even being offline. You will need to complete certain achievements to complete a skill and open up new avenues of training.

2. No Classes- Unlike other games that give you a narrow range of abilities as you train your class, in Pathfinder you gain levels in different Roles based off what you have trained.

3. Player Structures- Build your own homes, taverns, farms, and even cities! The Pathfinder Online world will be filled with places players can use to build and customize their own homes, businesses and communities.

4. More Than A Gankfest- Unlike other Open World PVP MMO's currently on the market, Pathfinder Online actively discourages meaningless PVP. A meaningful alignment system that actually offers mechanical advantages to lawful and good aligned organizations, and a functional bounty system that allows the player to choose which players and organizations can collect the bounties they set discourages random and meaningless killing. Beyond this, the admins are taking a hard stance against 'griefing', in which players specifically seek to ruin the experience of other players, often through using game mechanics in ways that weren't intended. Griefing in PFO can be a bannable offence.

5. All Players are Useful- This won't be like games where a new player has 49 health and a veteran has 49,000. The attacks from that new player won't automatically miss the veteran. A new player will be weaker, but still able to make a meaningful contribution to combat. As a sandbox where group sizes aren't limited, this means all players are useful, and don't have to segregate themselves by level.

6. Trade is Meaningful- In Pathfinder Online players must manually transport items to their intended destination. Most shops are player-run, and there will be goods more abundant in or even exclusive to certain regions. Merchants, traders, and even auctioneers are all viable professions.

I don't think it's going to be THAT bad pvp wise.

Offline Skynet

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2013, 10:16:50 PM »
But can you still play as CE bandits, cultists, and other such folk who routinely attack others unprovoked?  What about thief players who steal from other players?

At what point does "role-playing" become griefing?

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2013, 10:30:15 PM »
But can you still play as CE bandits, cultists, and other such folk who routinely attack others unprovoked?  What about thief players who steal from other players?

At what point does "role-playing" become griefing?

About the 12th time in a day you kill the same character that is 10 levels below you, tea bag them and offer you a bag full of their heads.. before you kill them again.  (UO pvp griefing at it's best)

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2013, 10:34:04 PM »
Honestly, I'm not all that opposed to griefing in an MA game. Presumably if you're playing an MA game you're mature enough to handle the game environment, and I think part of maturity is learning how to cope with griefers.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2013, 10:43:04 PM »
I do think you should have some method of avoiding them though. Not everyone wants to lose ..say .. a TRILLION ISK to some gatesitting sleeze in a million and a half isk cruiser who is wiling to take the hit to loot the flaming wreckage of a a builders two year work train to get up to being a dreadnaught componet builder.

That was why I quit EVE.. my understanding is said gate camping sleeze spent the next six weeks.. (along with most of his pirate corp buddies..) regretting it as my client for the parts he destroyed..took it out of his ass. repeatedly.

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2013, 11:02:38 PM »
Without knowing the situation, I can't really make a judgement call, but it sounds like you didn't take the necessary steps to secure your haul. A T1 Cruiser doesn't really have the gank to take out the more secure vessels (Blockade Runners, Freighters, some of the tankier T1 transport fits) in hi-sec before Concord arrives. If you were AFK'ing or autopiloting, that's your fault. If you were in low or null, there's honestly no excuse; you took the risk.

Incidentally, what you described sounds less like griefing and more like typical profiteering.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 11:05:48 PM by Ignaddio »

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2013, 11:03:13 PM »
"The answer to 'When does 'RP' become griefing?' is simple: It's the moment when a person exploits the nature of the game (and ignores the spirit of role-play) to detract consistently from other players' fun. On the flip side, the spirit of RP is not to always win, so if you can't lose sometimes and still have fun, you're also violating the spirit of the game."

"So, if your argument is, 'I'm RPing', and being a total dick. Goblinworks should happily reply with, 'Okay, we're RPing Pharasma and she just revoked your resurrection priveleges' (this is an actual concept within the game's RP). Then they kill you and boot you, and they 'RPed' it."

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2013, 11:14:28 PM »
Without knowing the situation, I can't really make a judgement call, but it sounds like you didn't take the necessary steps to secure your haul. A T1 Cruiser doesn't really have the gank to take out the more secure vessels (Blockade Runners, Freighters, some of the tankier T1 transport fits) in hi-sec before Concord arrives. If you were AFK'ing or autopiloting, that's your fault. If you were in low or null, there's honestly no excuse; you took the risk.

Incidentally, what you described sounds less like griefing and more like typical profiteering.

The 'kill' was from 3 guys.. I was not AFKing.. I got hammered and as a result lost a trillion ISK. Then got mocked by private message and email. Then I got offered the 'chance' to buy back all my own crap. Which they wanted me to go low sec to get. I showed up alright. Paid 200 milion on a contact and picked up 5 billion in blue prints and t3 stuff.. the pricks showed up outside the station and demanded MORE.

Needless to say my corp buddies didn't see it that way. They let everyone but the 'leader' who killed me go for a payout.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 11:16:36 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2013, 11:23:41 PM »
To be honest, that's pretty hilarious (to me). You fell for a pretty obvious (to me) scam.

Learning the game mechanics is a pretty integral part of survival in EVE. When you transport anything outside of a station you're taking the risk that it explodes in a fiery ball on your shoulders. Transporting safely means making it more trouble than it's worth to get at your stuff. Additionally, if you weren't transporting those blueprints and T3 parts inside containers you may as well have advertised your haul in local. Assume just about everyone lingering on a gate in a trade lane has a cargo scanner and a passive targeter.

The two maxims of EVE describe the situation pretty well:

Trust no one.
Don't fly anything you can't afford to replace.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 11:28:49 PM by Ignaddio »

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2013, 11:34:52 PM »
To be honest, that's pretty hilarious (to me). You fell for a pretty obvious (to me) scam.

Learning the game mechanics is a pretty integral part of survival in EVE. When you transport anything outside of a station you're taking the risk that it explodes in a fiery ball on your shoulders. Transporting safely means making it more trouble than it's worth to get at your stuff. Additionally, if you weren't transporting those blueprints and T3 parts inside containers you may as well have advertised your haul in local. Assume just about everyone lingering on a gate in a trade lane has a cargo scanner and a passive targeter.

The two maxims of EVE describe the situation pretty well:

Trust no one.
Don't fly anything you can't afford to replace.

Dude.. I had containers.. I was aware.. it was my FIFTH trip of the day. A 25 jump relocation when my corp relocated. I used what I had to relocate.. now..

As for the contract.. yeah.. I KNEW it was a scam.. which is why I showed up in a Panther and brought friends.

Offline Skynet

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2013, 11:38:42 PM »
Ignaddio, the thing is that griefing is done solely to piss other people off.  Being upset by griefing in MMOs is not a sign of immaturity.

Now, EVE Online is controversial for griefers, and lots of people these days are aware of the game's reputation.  But Pathfinder (along with Dancey's statements on the matter) send the message to prospective players that griefing will not be tolerated.

But his lack of plans to prevent this, the self-regulating idea, and "always on" PvP environment are all recipes for disaster.

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2013, 11:47:56 PM »
"What exactly do you base 'lack of plans' on, Skynet?"

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2013, 11:52:19 PM »
Ignaddio, the thing is that griefing is done solely to piss other people off.  Being upset by griefing in MMOs is not a sign of immaturity.

I'm inclined to retain my opinion that maturity includes not getting upset about the loss of pixels and data in a videogame, even if it took me months of videogaming to attain that data. Also, Pirate activity in EVE is primarily done for economic purposes, and because it's fun. Even the infamous Hulkageddon is thrown to manipulate the market at large. Also, pretending that the intentional lack of moderation on the issue isn't successful kind of ignores the game's years of success.

Also, you can't really expect the developer to provide you with solid details of a game that is potentially years from release. Always on PvP is pretty normal. See: WoW, Rift, SW:TOR. Granted, you can opt out on some games by selecting a carebear server, but if the game doesn't have that option and you don't have thick enough skin to cope with the alternative, then save yourself some grief and don't play. Vote with your wallet/time.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 11:58:14 PM by Ignaddio »

Offline Skynet

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2013, 11:53:34 PM »
"What exactly do you base 'lack of plans' on, Skynet?"

Dancey said in rpg.net that players who choose to be Chaotic Evil or attack other players will quickly get a bad reputation and nobody will not to associate with them.

A bad reputation can hurt people, but well-organized griefers knowledgeable in game mechanics or who manage to drive out enough players can do quite a bit of damage.

Pirate activity in EVE is primarily done for economic purposes, and because it's fun. Even the infamous Hulkageddon is thrown to manipulate the market at large. Also, pretending that the intentional lack of moderation on the issue isn't successful kind of ignores the game's years of success.

I'm not referring solely to EVE Online in regards to griefing.  And I recall that piracy and economic warfare in EVE is not inherently "griefing," but normal aspect of PvP.

I 'm referring more to players who continually pick on new players in an attempt to drive them from the game, send them harassing messages, promise them help on a raid but then standing around and doing nothing, or attack and kill characters who aren't interested in PvP.  Anti-social behavior in general.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 12:02:02 AM by Skynet »