You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 03, 2016, 10:11:26 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Pathfinder MMO  (Read 1784 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2013, 11:57:16 PM »
"What exactly do you base 'lack of plans' on, Skynet?"

Just the one early blog post I'm thinking.

Lots of posts have been made where they said they are looking for a balance..and that griefing was DEFINITELY not going to be allowed.

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2013, 12:03:37 AM »

Quote

I 'm referring more to players who continually pick on new players, send them harassing messages, or attack and kill characters who aren't interested in PvP.

1. Trial by fire. If new users can't cope with griefers they won't survive in the rest of the cutthroat universe.
2. You can block users, harassment is a non-issue.
3. It's a PvP game. Stick around long enough and you're going to experience nonconsensual PvP.

Offline Skynet

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2013, 12:05:06 AM »
I revised my post to clear some things up.  Not all MMOs are as cutthroat as EVE Online, nor is it the model that most MMO gamers wish to play.  Pathfinder Online is not modeled on this, and Dancey has made it clear even though it doesn't my adequate (to me) safeguards.

That's my main concern, that the developers don't have a plan for preventing this.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 12:09:11 AM by Skynet »

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2013, 12:15:20 AM »
Quote
Not all MMOs are as cutthroat as EVE Online, nor is it the model that people wish to play.

400,000 Paid subscriptions would tend to disagree. To be honest, I would love to see a similar model implemented in a fantasy game. I get bored of the Sci Fi from time to time.

Offline Skynet

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2013, 12:24:22 AM »
I meant to say most "MMO gamers."  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2013, 12:29:15 AM »
Dancey said in rpg.net that players who choose to be Chaotic Evil or attack other players will quickly get a bad reputation and nobody will not to associate with them.

A bad reputation can hurt people, but well-organized griefers knowledgeable in game mechanics or who manage to drive out enough players can do quite a bit of damage.

Just the one early blog post I'm thinking.

Lots of posts have been made where they said they are looking for a balance..and that griefing was DEFINITELY not going to be allowed.

"There's a difference between being Chaotic Evil and being utterly moronic (which, from an 'RP' standpoint, is what griefing would be). We still know nothing about the game mechanics, and how they might deter griefers, and a strong community will make a big difference. However, in the end, as Callie said (and they mention on the Kickstarter), griefing is not acceptable."

"Again, I don't know if they'll follow through, there's just no knowing until you're already in the game. However, so far, they've stated their intention to put a halt to griefers, and the only thing you have to base anything off of is their word."

1. Trial by fire. If new users can't cope with griefers they won't survive in the rest of the cutthroat universe.
2. You can block users, harassment is a non-issue.
3. It's a PvP game. Stick around long enough and you're going to experience nonconsensual PvP.

"That first point only works, and is only acceptable, if that's a known factor. Even in EVE, which has a reputation for that, it's not really an acceptable thing to be forced to deal with because a new player isn't explicitly informed of that before playing. Caveat Emptor as always, but expectations are important to the survival of a game."

"SWTOR is a good game, for what it is, excellent really, but it suffered because it bred (probably through no fault of Bioware's, honestly) certain expectations."

"Either way, griefers are bad for a game. Games (and I'd argue, life) are about enjoying yourself, and if you're not, then the game is failing. If it's because of bad players, and no one does anything to stop them, then the community or the company, or both, are failing."

That's my main concern, that the developers don't have a plan for preventing this.

"You have no basis for this in either direction. I'm not saying they will succeed, and you can say the risk isn't worth it right now, but then we agree to disagree and there's nothing to be said for it. To me, I'm putting the money up to say 'Fuck WoW, Fuck Theme Parks, let's make Sandboxes work', because so far, I haven't seen a single Sandbox game that could even make me want to test it, much less stick with it. As for Theme Parks, well, Blizzard let me know a long time ago that Theme Parks are just a good way to suck the money out of people by exploiting the worst aspects of the internet and making it colorful."

"So, even if it's always a niche market, I want to tell companies that it's big enough to support."

"As for your desires, Ignaddio, I hope it fails to meet them. That's not the game I signed up for, and it's not the game they're promising."

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2013, 12:57:24 AM »
EVE Online has been around longer than WoW, and has no indications of stopping; indeed, the consistent semi-annual expansions indicate continued growth. While I freely concede that it doesn't have nearly the same subscriber base, the game is far from failing. It survives in part because it offers what many other game devs don't: minimal moderation of player interaction. Imagine switching from WoW or SW:TOR or EQ to one of those MMOs designed for children where interaction is limited to a selection of preset phrases. That's what going from EVE to WoW is like for me.

Pretending that your personal moral standard for video games is the ideal one is pretty silly. I like the idea that I can interfere with another player's assets and vice versa; PvP has wider consequences, higher stakes than a respawn timer or a corpserun. And I like the idea that there is no reward without risk. The game tutorials, pop ups, help tips and so on teach you the relevant mechanics of PvP in Hi-sec, and those of Low and nullsec should you wander. For crying out loud, EVE even advertises the fact that the game has pirates in its trailers.

EVE Online The Butterfly Effect Trailer

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2013, 01:23:07 AM »
"My 'personal moral standard' has nothing to do with whether a game is moderated, that's not what I'm saying. My 'personal moral standard' is that a game should be fun, and it should never manipulate a player, or lure a player in with false promises. If a game has an extreme enough niche (like EVE does), it should be made explicitly clear. Maybe EVE does so and I don't know, if so, good. I'm not criticizing EVE, I'm saying I don't want PFO to be EVE. I don't want to play EVE, I'm glad some people do and that it exists for them, but I'm not them, the fanbase for PFO seems to want something new. Maybe they don't want exactly what I want, but a hell of a lot of them sound like me, as do the various developer blogs."

"I don't think EVE shouldn't exist, I don't think EVE is a bad game. What I do think is, I don't want to play EVE, at all. Goblinworks isn't promising us EVE in Golarion, it's promising us a game with some of EVE's traits, wrapped into a package meant to appeal to a different crowd. I hope they cater to the crowd they've attracted."

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2013, 01:55:39 AM »
With mere HOURS left. They got it funded. While I have reservations on the game I will say this. This shows the big boys out there that there IS interest in MMOs not modeled on WoW.
What?  There's ALWAYS been interest.  No one wants to PAY for it, but there is interest.  Guild Wars 2, Tera, Vindictus Dungeons and Dragons Online, the planned new MMO Neverwinter and a slew of other games are trying to do things that aren't WoW, and they're succeeding enough to still be here after a few years.

Will they ever unseat WoW?  No.  Simply because of nostalgia, weight of material and the fact that Blizzard, despite the whining of people like me, is still beloved and believed can do no wrong.  WoW is nothing new, it's a EQ clone gussied up in cute Pop Culture references and a setting that stretches back 30+ years now.

Pathfinder is not for me, but I sincerely hope they are successful and stay a while.

Offline Skynet

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2013, 10:30:31 PM »
Well, the Kickstarter 24 hours ago had about 800,00 dollars if I recall.  A lot of people (including me) believed that they'd be unable to reach the million dollars, but they got the word out and received enough donations in the nick of time.  Paizo has a very dedicated fanbase, I'll give them that.

Also, I agree with Christ Brady, although I don't think that WoW has as much of a monopoly on MMORPG popularity anymore.  Guild Wars 2 is getting a lot of attention and praise.  The "pay once" instead of per month is very attractive.

Going back to Pathfinder, does anybody know what material they'll take from the published books?  They'd kick themselves if they didn't include the Alchemist and Summoner classes, for these two are very popular among PF players (if I go by online discussion forums).
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 10:32:13 PM by Skynet »

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2013, 10:37:15 PM »
"They're starting with the basics, the idea for the game is to start small and build upward. They're not using a strict class-based system (particularly since  you don't have to be an adventurer at all), instead using 'paths'. For the most part, these will stick to the core rulebooks archetypes, and only... 5 I think... races will be available from the start, but that really depends on what you consider the start. The point of PFO is to not be extremely ambitious, so the start of Beta seems to be, for all intents and purposes, the release of the game... Or at least, the Start of Early Enrollment (I'm not sure if they're not the same thing)."

Online Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2013, 10:45:00 PM »
"They're starting with the basics, the idea for the game is to start small and build upward. They're not using a strict class-based system (particularly since  you don't have to be an adventurer at all), instead using 'paths'. For the most part, these will stick to the core rulebooks archetypes, and only... 5 I think... races will be available from the start, but that really depends on what you consider the start. The point of PFO is to not be extremely ambitious, so the start of Beta seems to be, for all intents and purposes, the release of the game... Or at least, the Start of Early Enrollment (I'm not sure if they're not the same thing)."

Well I'm looking forward to giving it a try.. as donor #17 I'm looking forward to the beta

Offline Ryuka Tana

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2013, 10:58:33 PM »
"I'm excited, but were more than a year from beta, and I don't even know if that counts as early enrollment."

Online Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2013, 12:20:13 AM »
A bit of thread necro.. I just heard that somoene in Eve Online clicked in the wrong spot and moved from a 'battle standing' to 'oh-my-fugging-god' full on coalition warfare this weekend. On the 27th, a dreadnaught pilot JUMPED into a sector he was supposed to bridge to.  In the ensuing slaughter.. 4 hours of geek on geek warfare..

a shit ton of normally unkillable ships were smoked.

The Asakai Incident - Jan 27, 2013

Something like under 100 or so of the HUGE supervessels were smoked. You don't normally see war this big in Eve..

Ironically the two sides had just talked down and were ready to stand down.

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2013, 09:18:41 AM »
Dreads don't bridge, Titans do.

CFC lost 44 Dreads, 29 Carriers, 5 Supercarriers and 3 Titans (including the Titan that jumped). They only killed 11 Carriers, 6 Dreads and 1 Supercarrier. In terms of ingame currency and time invested, CFC lost about 10 times what they killed; ~650 Billion to 65 Billion.

Relevant propaganda:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Ironically the two sides had just talked down and were ready to stand down.

I'm not sure what you mean by this; HBC and CFC currently have a Non-Invasion Pact going on; while we're welcome to shoot at one another, we don't organize fights to take each other's sov or infrastructure. TEST's dear leader Montolio was talking about ending the pact and calling for a full-on invasion of CFC space, but was talked down by other alliance leaders (most specifically, Shadoo of PL). This fight happened within the confines of that pact.

At any rate, none of this is actually relevant to the Pathfinder MMO.

Online Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2013, 09:46:24 AM »
Dreads don't bridge, Titans do.

CFC lost 44 Dreads, 29 Carriers, 5 Supercarriers and 3 Titans (including the Titan that jumped). They only killed 11 Carriers, 6 Dreads and 1 Supercarrier. In terms of ingame currency and time invested, CFC lost about 10 times what they killed; ~650 Billion to 65 Billion.

Relevant propaganda:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

I'm not sure what you mean by this; HBC and CFC currently have a Non-Invasion Pact going on; while we're welcome to shoot at one another, we don't organize fights to take each other's sov or infrastructure. TEST's dear leader Montolio was talking about ending the pact and calling for a full-on invasion of CFC space, but was talked down by other alliance leaders (most specifically, Shadoo of PL). This fight happened within the confines of that pact.

At any rate, none of this is actually relevant to the Pathfinder MMO.

Well from what I read they were supposedly moving down from 'I want to see f-ing burning ships all over' to something of a Cold War status. I'm still returning to the game. Relearning my scanning/probe skills and seeing what I can do after years of hiatus.

EVE was original brought up as an example of player driven economies.

Offline LunarSage

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2013, 09:42:26 AM »
1. Trial by fire. If new users can't cope with griefers they won't survive in the rest of the cutthroat universe.
2. You can block users, harassment is a non-issue.
3. It's a PvP game. Stick around long enough and you're going to experience nonconsensual PvP.

Yikes.

Griefing should not be something you "just have to deal with".  I find your words on the matter disturbing on several levels.  I pay a monthly fee every month to play my MMOs.  I play them to have fun, not to deal with 16 year old gankers or game exploiters who's sole purpose is to ruin my enjoyment of the game that (again), I pay actual money out of my pocket for.

I'm sorry, I will not lie back accept that as being "just part of the game".

I play MMOs not to PvP, but to team up with others.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 09:48:58 AM by LunarSage »

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2013, 02:42:15 PM »
Yikes.

Griefing should not be something you "just have to deal with".  I find your words on the matter disturbing on several levels.  I pay a monthly fee every month to play my MMOs.  I play them to have fun, not to deal with 16 year old gankers or game exploiters who's sole purpose is to ruin my enjoyment of the game that (again), I pay actual money out of my pocket for.

I'm sorry, I will not lie back accept that as being "just part of the game".

I play MMOs not to PvP, but to team up with others.

Paying for a product doesn't entitle you to dictate how the game world works. And every game can't be everything to everyone. I enjoy EVE because of its minimal moderation of player interaction; I also pay money to enjoy the game in my way, which may conflict with your preferences. Luckily, the rules of the game and the precedent of minimal moderation set by the EVE devs tend to favor my perspective. I like the fact that every action in EVE carries a risk commensurate with its reward. There are other games out there (e.x. WoW) that will let you avoid the substantial proportion of risk for your reward. I don't like the concept of welfare epics and PUGing endgame content that WoW introduced. I like the idea that every aspect of every player's non-liquid assets faces the possibility of changing hands or being destroyed entirely.

Edit: Also, I'm twenty six, not sixteen.  :P

Just so we're clear here, I'm referring specifically to behavior in EVE which is sanctioned by the in-game rules. If you don't like the rules of the game you're playing, find another game; this one isn't for you, and that's fine. It just doesn't make sense to me to complain about it.

Re-Edit: One of the things that I don't like about EVE is that you don't have the option of destroying player-built stations. As awesome as it is to be able to construct an asset of that magnitude, I don't think anything players in EVE do should be immune to wanton destruction on a massive scale.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:52:15 PM by Ignaddio »

Offline LunarSage

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2013, 02:47:53 PM »
Paying for a product doesn't entitle you to dictate how the game world works.

Yet I can choose to stop playing entirely if griefing gets too bad.  It's in the company's best interests to ensure that players aren't chasing other players away from the game.  You're welcome to your opinion, but I maintain that being an asshole is -not- a player's right.  In fact, that sort of behavior should be actively punished.  It's not that difficult a notion to grasp that people being asshats and griefing other players in an MMO is a negative thing that should be curbed, not encouraged.

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2013, 03:02:27 PM »
If CCP were having trouble keeping the game afloat due to pirates chasing the thin-skinned out of EVE, it certainly isn't showing. There's a market for games like EVE, and the fact that it's a) older than WoW and b) still growing and changing, rather than stagnating like EQ are pretty good indicators that CCP's interests are right where they belong. 400,000 paid subscriptions are a pretty good indicator that someone wants to pay to play a game like EVE.

You're welcome to your opinion, but I maintain that being an asshole is -not- a player's right.

I never said it was a right. But it certainly is a liberty, and it's a liberty that CCP chooses not to restrict.

Offline LunarSage

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2013, 03:09:18 PM »
I guess we just differ in world outlook then.  I believe that if there were real life consequences to asshatery, there would be far less griefing.  People grief because they can do so anonymously, where if they treated someone like that in person they would eventually get beaten up.

Ever see the ending of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back?  Sometimes I wish that kind of thing really happened.

Offline Ignaddio

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2013, 03:19:08 PM »
If you prefer, think of it this way: without a place like EVE sucking up the real-world resources (time, money) of so many pirates (griefers, if you prefer), where else would they be spent? On your kid-glove moderated  no-risk MMOs like SecondLife, WoW, EQ, SW:ToR, etc.

Offline LunarSage

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2013, 03:23:02 PM »
I play MMOs to have fun, not to engage in something stressful.  It's why when I played WoW I never raided or PvP'd.  Therefore, I never had to worry about top tier gear.  I liked doing regular quests and yes, I read every single quest's flavor text.  When I got to the point where I could literally do no more quests, I started over with a brand new character.  To me, leveling up is where the fun is.  Raiders often treat the game like a job... and that doesn't sound very fun to me.  In fact, it sounds like stress galore.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2013, 04:39:52 PM »
Yikes.

Griefing should not be something you "just have to deal with".  I find your words on the matter disturbing on several levels.  I pay a monthly fee every month to play my MMOs.  I play them to have fun, not to deal with 16 year old gankers or game exploiters who's sole purpose is to ruin my enjoyment of the game that (again), I pay actual money out of my pocket for.

I'm sorry, I will not lie back accept that as being "just part of the game".

I play MMOs not to PvP, but to team up with others.

Please, never touch Day Z.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Pathfinder MMO
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2013, 11:41:16 PM »
If you prefer, think of it this way: without a place like EVE sucking up the real-world resources (time, money) of so many pirates (griefers, if you prefer), where else would they be spent? On your kid-glove moderated  no-risk MMOs like SecondLife, WoW, EQ, SW:ToR, etc.
This I find highly offensive 'kid glove'?  You have no idea what a true griefer loves to do in a game.  They CHEAT, they BREAK THE GAME.  Why?  Because it makes their e-peen bigger.  They don't care about being an asshole 'within' the game's 'rules', they WILL break it with hacks, cheats, bots and anything else their little hearts desires, because to see you cry and bitch and whine makes their days better, makes them forget that they are little shits with no life and no joy outside of ruining someone elses.  And better if they can get hundreds and thousands of people to moan and cry, because that's how they measure their self-worth.

Here's something, in DayZ, there were incidences of people just automatically dying on certain servers.  Just poof, everyone single person is killed.  Except a certain 'team'.  That is 'griefing'.  This is one's idea of a fun time, where they rigged a hack to kill all other players on the server, just so they could get the collected loot, which is ammo and guns, and healing items like painkillers and the like.  Griefers are a horrible thing for a gaming community.  Eve Online is well moderated enough to keep that biggest hackers and griefers at bay, and be thankful that they do, otherwise, that game would have gone down years ago.