World War II alternate universe - German invasion of the US

[RedEve]

Hey,

I would like to attempt a game idea I have seen tried before, but one that never truly got off the ground.

In this universe, Hitler never opened an Eastern front. Instead he focused his efforts on Britain after conquering most of Europe. Eventually Old Blighty falls as well, opening up the opportunity to plan a full-on invasion in the US.

Now the key here is, I am not interested in making this a military vs. military game. Rather, the main focus would be on the first responders to the invading German armies: regular American citizens. The thread would be set in NYC, one of the Eastern cities that is used as a beachhead for the invasion.

Idea retracted because it is apparently too impossible.

You know, unlike aliens, elves, time travel, FTL spaceships, anthropomorphized animals, multiverse travel, vampires, werewolves, magic, ...

[1SAZ]

Interesting concept. I'd actually love to see how this is handled, especially since this effectively makes Russia the US in layman's terms. Is the US getting any support prior to the attack? Are there any notable allies to the civilian effort besides the inevitable military action? How did the US prepare for the attack? Did they know it was going to happen? A number of questions that I would love answers for. So count me in.

[RedEve]

The invasion will come as a complete surprise, so the only help to the civilian effort will be those few military units and personnel already in or nearby the city.
The US did not prepare for the attack because it came as a complete surprise. They might have suspected Germany would try an assault, but not this soon.

[1SAZ]

Lovely. So the US is the underdog for a change. I'm definitely in for this one.

[Caitlin]

It sounds a lot like the introduction movie of Red Alert 2, except that it's the Germans now that invade the USA instead of the Russians, and it's set in an older era. (Red Alert 1 was set in the WW II era, while Red Alert 2 is is more in the late nineties, early 2000.)

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

This might give some inspiration for your game. ^_^

Red Alert 2

I'm currently too tied up to join this myself, but otherwise I might have asked to play a German instead of an American. It might be fun to play an enemy commander, even if my char would eventually end up getting killed by all the other players, haha!


I'm thinking of following the game though, it sounds interesting.

[SGTDan]

This idea interests me but there are several details that throw me off. Sorry this is far too unrealistic for me.

You guys have fun though!

[Major Major]

I agree with Sgt Dan. There was simply no way in hell that Germans could have pulled off the "Unmentionable Sea Mammal", even if the RAF had been worn down, and the RN prevented from interfering with the landings. If they couldn't manage to cross 50 miles of English Channel, then how the devil would they have managed the Atlantic?

[SGTDan]

I agree with Sgt Dan. There was simply no way in hell that Germans could have pulled off the "Unmentionable Sea Mammal", even if the RAF had been worn down, and the RN prevented from interfering with the landings. If they couldn't manage to cross 50 miles of English Channel, then how the devil would they have managed the Atlantic?

They wouldn't have the oil to pull it off unless Africa fell, even then they would have to contend another fact. If Britain did fall the US at the time was pretty xenophobic at the time. That means that every US Force and Canadian force would be moved to the East coast or West to protect the shores.

[RedEve]

I never claimed this game would not require some suspension of disbelief.

I also find it funny that someone would balk at the notion of Britain being overrun in what is essentially the pitch to a roleplaying game on a forum... 

[Caitlin]

Yeah lol, as if every game we roleplay is 100% accurate or realistic. I'm betting 99.9% of them aren't. It does strike me as funny that people can easily roleplay with magic spells or in a scifi setting, but that something that's based on an alternative past is out of the question.

For me it would be a real challenge to roleplay an American of that era though, I simply lack too much information for that. The mind of a German soldier at the time, however, would be easier for me due to all the research I already did in the past.

It also helps that the German border is pretty close and I heard stories of my grandparents, which would allow me to portray such a soldier in a more realistic way.


Either way I hope you get the game going, it sounds interesting.

[SGTDan]

I never claimed this game would not require some suspension of disbelief.

I also find it funny that someone would balk at the notion of Britain being overrun in what is essentially the pitch to a roleplaying game on a forum... 

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Britian being overrun isn't the only issue, but I don't mind none the less. Just have a good time.

Also Caitlin, I don't do fantasy as I hate magic and I only do hard sci-fi.

[pendarious]

while alternate histories usually do not bother me there has to be some major attention to the details that you have changed in order to for this attack to be successful for instance the US would have to not be in   wartime poduction, churchil and roosevelt would have to be on bad terms, and of course lets not forget that the germans would need a hell of a lot of oil and fuel refinement in order to make it here as has already been mentioned

[Caitlin]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Britian being overrun isn't the only issue, but I don't mind none the less. Just have a good time.

Also Caitlin, I don't do fantasy as I hate magic and I only do hard sci-fi.

You won't see me in a fantasy game either, and I'm a big Star Trek fan, but even in Star Trek things like the Heisenberg compensator are really just a way to make the impossible possible. I mostly meant to point out that accuracy or realism aren't always feasible in games to make them work well.

I didn't meant my previous reply as an attack in some form and I want to offer my apologies if it was taken that way.

[RedEve]

while alternate histories usually do not bother me there has to be some major attention to the details that you have changed in order to for this attack to be successful for instance the US would have to not be in   wartime poduction, churchil and roosevelt would have to be on bad terms, and of course lets not forget that the germans would need a hell of a lot of oil and fuel refinement in order to make it here as has already been mentioned

So: Orcs & Elves, time travel and faster than light travel, ...: okay.
Changing the parameters of the second world war: sacrilege!

[pendarious]

no it's not sacrilege at all I'm just saying that there is a looooooot of detail that would have to be changed for this to be plausible

[RedEve]

no it's not sacrilege at all I'm just saying that there is a looooooot of detail that would have to be changed for this to be plausible

Sigh... This is absurd.

[Siereis]

It was a good idea and I feel sorry for you that other people had to butt in and tell you it was impossible even after you said it was fantasy.  I've been following these comments all night so far and I laughed at a few people and their NEED to tell others what they think makes for good fantasy (EVEN after they admitted to not RPing fantasy.)

Just wanted to stop in and say you should still try the RP if you were still liking the idea.


PS: Please don't take this as an excuse to continue arguing and please do not correct me.  I WILL not respond since arguments on the internet are pointless.

[pendarious]

Sigh... This is absurd.

absurd it may be but that's just how I feel *shrugs* I also will apologize for seeming antagonistic over this affair when it is a matter of suspension of disbelief but alas the idea is beyond my capacity to accept and with this I bid you farewell and will no longer be a bother.

[RedEve]

absurd it may be but that's just how I feel *shrugs* I also will apologize for seeming antagonistic over this affair when it is a matter of suspension of disbelief but alas the idea is beyond my capacity to accept and with this I bid you farewell and will no longer be a bother.

Browsing over your profile, I see that you are involved in a game that has this in the openting post:

December 1944, it has been five years since the Nueroi have arrived on Earth. In that time. Humanity has been waging a pitch battle for survival. Utilizing special women with the power of magic. They fight against the continuous onslaught of the Neuroi. They are known as the Strike Witches.

So an extraterrestrial invasion fought by supernatural witches poses no problem to suspend disbelief.

[Caitlin]

no it's not sacrilege at all I'm just saying that there is a looooooot of detail that would have to be changed for this to be plausible

How does plausibility even come into question when the topic title states 'alternate universe'?

[Haibane]

Redeve, please carry on with your plan as I think its a great idea. H.G.Wells in his "War in the Air" had a German zeppelin fleet attacking America in the very early 1900s or late 1890s, with a Chinese Air Armada invading from the west coast at the same time. His book never bothered about details of oil supplies or anything of the sort, and it was still excellent fiction, just like Star Trek is.

If everybody who thinks this idea won't work because they think history needs amending too much would please just leave since you won't be playing anyway that will leave Redeve to carry on designing her own fantasy version of late 1930s and early 1940s history that would allow these events to occur.

Redeve can easily reinvent the 1930s post the 1929 crash so that Germany has a much more powerful navy, airforce and oil reserves. Make Stalin a firm ally of the Nazis and strip away Britains alliance with the USA. Get Hitler to agree a pact with Japan so that the Japanese make war on American Pacific interests and so distract all her fleet and much of her air defence assets to the PTO and there you have your fiction in place.

If Churchill and Roosevelt need to not be strong allies, so be it (remember that in 1940 and 1941 prior to Pearl Harbour there was a very strong anti-war lobby in the American senate and even some pro-Nazi sentiment. Increase the influence of these isolationists and 'doves' and you can easily say that there was no British-USA alliance or friendship). If The Luftwaffe needs to destroy Fighter Command by late August 1940, so be it. Lets say Hitler gave Goering longer to build up his airforce. These are facts the GM may create and impose at her discretion. If you don't like this, then don't play, but equally please don't shoot down someone else's excellent ideas that are valid to them.

Thank you.

Redeve *big hugs*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2032699/What-Nazis-invaded-America-Maps-published-1942-Life-issue-detailed-plans-Hitler-invasion-U-S.html

http://longstreet.typepad.com/thesciencebookstore/2009/12/mapping-the-invasion-of-america-1942.html

http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/497-nazis-up-the-mississippi-and-other-axis-invasion-scenarios

Some cool alternate timeline ideas here too:

http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/Germany

[Caitlin]

Well said Haibane!

I truly hope to see RedEve continue with this story as well and I hope to read an entertaining story as a result. I really think this story has a lot of potential.

[MagicalPen]

I think its quite silly to post in some ones game idea thread that you will not be joining because it is too 'unrealistic'. Quite a pointless post really.

Like Haibane and some others, I think its quite an interesting idea and can be pursued. Anyone heard of Operation Sealion? Oh - whats that you ask? Germanys plan to invade Great Britain. So that aspect is not unrealistic. Hitler (slightly mental already) decided against such an invasion and switched his focus to the East.

So its quite plausible, in RedEves world, that the Germans went through and launched said attack. It would have been quite bloody and costly on both sides, but the fuel situation in Germany would not have prevented such an invasion. For those of you who have said so much - I think you need to go read some history books.

So, with the fall of the UK, a lot of the Commonwealth countries would be knocked out of the war. The 'homeland' is gone, so is the central governing and leadership, so they'd essentially be all cut off in their parts of the worlds. The DAK would be successful and Egypt along with the Mid East would quickly fall under the control of the AXIS - along with the oil fields in Iraq. The Romanians and their fields of Ploesti would also be free from bombing raids and the like, so the 'perceived' Fuel Crisis for the Axis will have been averted.

All this prior to 1941 - so the US would be alarmed at the demise of the UK but would not feel overtly threatened. The Atlantic is a BIG ocean to cross, after all, with the remnants of the British probably in Novia Scotia and Canada. I imagine the US would be on a higher alert and increase naval patrols.

It would be smart for the Germans to coordinate their attack with the Japanese. The Japanese were able to launch a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor (even had plans for landing troops there too) so why not the Germans as well? A double whammy, from Coast to Coast, would be quite the shock and freeze the US in regards to how to respond.

So, use that as justification for an attack on the US - Japanese troops landing from the Philippines to Hawaii, with German/Italian Troops (and their combined navies - the Bismarck is still around, the Germans have their converted Carrier the Graf Spree) and we have an invasion on our hands!