Okay, so; Republicans basically suck, Democrats suck almost as hard. Gotcha. :)
I am neither a Democrat or Republican, so I can't really take personal offense over such harsh comments, but I do wonder, what is the point of making such comments around here? Why is this kind of harsh criticism so often directed at those particular targets on these message boards? And it's not always just Vekseid or any other particular person who says stuff like this -- I don't mean this as some personal attack on any individual. Rather, it seems to me that there's an atmosphere in which these kinds of comments seem to be welcome and encouraged. At least it looks that way to me, from what little I've seen; I could be wrong.
I haven't met a committed Democrat who thinks that the philosophy of capitulation by Democratic leadership is a good thing.
But at the heart of the issue is this: Last August, the Republican party openly threatened the good standing of the United States federal debt, and it's not possible to extricate that bit of treachery from debate on this 'issue'. It is one of America's most valuable assets, and an important refuge as Europe insists on screwing itself over, and we pay a price in terms of higher interest rates when that confidence get shaken. It's nothing but intentional sabotage for political gain - if they were actually concerned about the debt, they would have taken care of it when it mattered - during the budget talks.
Yes, a member state’s exit from European monetary union, without a parallel withdrawal from the EU would be legally impossible, still, while voluntary withdrawal is legally not possible, expulsion is conceivable.
They can violate the treaty, but I wasn't aware the EU had any power of arrest.
By strong government I meant one with a majority or at least a solid pact between parties, so that it's stable and can apply its measures without more delays.
If a stable government gets elected, the chances of one showing up that is going to hurt Greece even more by trying to force a balanced budget in a crisis situation like this seems to me to be very small.
It's still false by the way and also a bit unfair. Germany can't absorb such a massive amount of unemployed people, no country can, much less in a immediate time period.
The US absorbs twice as many with a vastly worse economy, and we don't even complain about it when the job market is good. I'm pretty sure we could do better, even.
Another option is for Germany to perform massive investments in Spain and other countries.
Spain's high unemployment rate is not related to the debt global crisis,
Yes it is. The only debt crisis is by people believing that government debt is a problem, and actually having the political influence to make decisions based on that nonsense.
in fact Spain's debt is lower than Germany or France. Also a life changing move can't be done in many cases due to other responsibilities. Regardless, unemployment rate in Spain is expected to go down in the coming years but it takes time.
By firing still more public employees, the unemployment rate is expected to fall?
Iceland is not in the EU, it's a pending candidate. It also has a population of 300.000 habitants which it's less than the city I live in. Those losses are not a big hit to other countries, much unlike Greece's possible losses if it left the euro.
Spain has taken more measures in this 4 months and a half than in the past eight years, I don't see it doomed at all, it is in fact making its job to move the euro forward.
Spain at this point can do nothing to save the Euro. It's all up to those in the Eurozone being willing to invest their current account surpluses in the rest of the Eurozone - but that is obviously not happening, nor going to happen to my understanding. The PIIGS are facing what amounts to a hard currency shortage in an environment where they don't even have the option of printing more money.
Simply put, for the PIIGS to experience growth, money can't be leaving the country faster than it's coming in. Money is leaving their banks, meaning their banks can't invest. Money is leaving their public sector, because of freaking austerity rules like:
Yes, Spain modified its Constitution to limit the public deficit in August 2011. It had 316 yes votes and only 5 against it.
- meaning that the two key methods by which growth is actually possible - public and private investment - have been removed as possibilities.
If Germany invests a trillion or so euros abroad, sure, the situation can be saved. But right now the PIIGS are basically paying for Germany's $200 billion account surplus. Almost all of that comes from the Eurozone
We're talking about a 60% devaluation and that's only as soon as they take their new coin, further devaluation is very likely to happen. Inflation would also go sky high, specially in the long term, much like Argentina which is now between 25-30%, the unofficial one that's it.
A 60% devaluation is a problem why? A nation's economic strength is not dominated by how much a single unit of currency is worth. They'll pay more for gas and other raw materials they can't make themselves. However, they'll actually have the opportunity to develop some sort of export industry not based on tourism, as opposed to pretty much only relying on tourism now.
And Greece is not Argentina. I would not be surprised at ~10% inflation, but that's not a hopeless situation.
I think that comparing Japan and China to Greece is very unfair, don't you think?
I could pick any Asian model. South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan - they are all examples of strong economies built in large part due to currency devaluation.
Without outside help they would have no investors, the interests would simply be way too high and no country no matter how big or small can survive in a global economy while being isolated, much less grow or fix such an economical meltdown.
But they will have investors if they leave the Euro. More so than they do now, even. Wages not pegged to the Euro means we can outsource to Greece, just for one example.
I don't think that the eurozone is an abomination, but then again I don't think that the USA is one either, please refrain from using those adjectives to keep this civil and respectful.
The Eurozone resembles the US under the Articles of Confederation more than it does an actual Europe United.
Greece supposedly falsified its economic statistics in order to gain EMU entry. I think that it's unfair to blame the EU for its troubles when it's actually them the ones that are trying to save Greece.
Which (among many other reasons) is why I usually point to Spain and Italy in such discussions - two countries that were behaving, but are getting punished for the association. At the very least, Germany could guarantee Italian and Spanish debt so that they aren't paying horrific interest rates for no other reason than lack of investor confidence.