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Author Topic: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia  (Read 4049 times)

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Offline vtboy

Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2012, 06:59:47 PM »
Yup.  Mark Twain had it right, and as a person with a math degree I can attest to it:  lies, damn lies, and statistics.  All of those web surveys you see?  Practically useless, because in order to vote in them, you have to be inclined to go to the site hosting it - whether that's Faux News or Old Farts For Super-Sized Families.  As a result, you already have a bias towards the answer they want.

Which of the polls I cited do you believe were web surveys?

Since polls seem to be rather roundly distrusted, why don't we just consider election results? Rick Perry, Sarah Palin, and Rick Santorum all won state-wide contests, as did Nikki Haley, Jan Brewer, and Rand Paul (the guy who isn't certain the 1964 Civil Rights Act was such a good idea). And then there were the national contests in 2000 and 2004 which put W, that staunch defender of individual liberty and reason, in the White House. Of course, election results, like polls, tend to be skewed, as only those who are interested enough to vote get counted. Still, whatever flaws there may be in these statistical barometers of popular attitude and thought, I am more than slightly alarmed. 

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Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2012, 07:04:21 PM »
Actually, I was speaking in a generic sense, to demonstrate how clever selection of the test sample can skew results.  As most people are familiar with web surveys and may have even participated in them, it was an easy enough example.  I could have picked a poll on Elliquiy just as easily:  the results of a gay marriage poll here, compared with a gay marriage poll done at Liberty University (in the middle of Falwell country), would show vastly different results.

Offline vtboy

Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2012, 07:23:56 PM »
Then, which of the polls I cited do you believe was based on tainted sampling methodology?

Offline Serephino

Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2012, 07:30:08 PM »
It is scary that people like that got votes.  However, you do have to look at it logically.  In elections, those were registered voters who got off their butts and went to their polling place.  According to my Civics teacher, the average voter was 45-65, so, not younger people.  Younger people tend to be more apathetic toward politics, though Obama got younger people to vote, which is nothing short of a miracle.  I hope the trend continues.

As for the primaries, those are all Republican voters.  Look at their choices.  If they vote, they have to vote for one of those yahoos. 

It just blows my mind that last election these idiots promised to balance the budget and get rid of 'Obamacare'.  The only part of the health care law they're trying to get rid of is access to birth control.  Abortions will be next. 

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Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2012, 08:23:08 PM »
Then, which of the polls I cited do you believe was based on tainted sampling methodology?

I repeat - I was speaking in a generic sense.  I happen to be in agreement with you that the Republican candidates are a collection of misinformed, misogynistic theocrats or are at least so horridly dated that my mother would think they were stuck in the Stone Age (she still hasn't grasped what that new-fangled 'Occupy' thing is all about).  However, it's hard to ignore the fact that both sides are making the numbers play the tune they want.  I've seen other poll results that say that 20% of Republican voters would choose Obama over the candidates running currently, and polls saying that Congress's approval rating is 9% or lower. 

To try to speak to any of the polls you cited specifically would be completely ludicrous, as I have no link to the raw data, what organization sponsored the poll, or how they collected the data.  Callie said as much in his post.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2012, 10:26:45 PM »
Then, which of the polls I cited do you believe was based on tainted sampling methodology?

Pretty much anyone that Fox/CNN hosts on their web site and BOTH news services frequently cite them on air.

Offline vtboy

Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2012, 05:28:53 AM »
I repeat - I was speaking in a generic sense.  I happen to be in agreement with you that the Republican candidates are a collection of misinformed, misogynistic theocrats or are at least so horridly dated that my mother would think they were stuck in the Stone Age (she still hasn't grasped what that new-fangled 'Occupy' thing is all about).  However, it's hard to ignore the fact that both sides are making the numbers play the tune they want.  I've seen other poll results that say that 20% of Republican voters would choose Obama over the candidates running currently, and polls saying that Congress's approval rating is 9% or lower. 

To try to speak to any of the polls you cited specifically would be completely ludicrous, as I have no link to the raw data, what organization sponsored the poll, or how they collected the data.  Callie said as much in his post.

I fear I have not expressed myself with sufficient clarity.

If it were only the candidates who are misinformed, misogynistic theocratics, I would sleep much more soundly at night. Say what you will about the quality of polling, it seems to me undeniable that America has become a much more hospitable home to ignorance, intolerance and superstition. It may be comforting to indulge the belief that the problem is more apparent than real, and that the appearance is primarily attributable to the lack of options at the electoral buffet. I think, though, the better explanation is that the offered stew of religious militancy, xenophobia, and open hostility to thought has been plated to satisfy widely shared appetites.

Perhaps popular democracy in the land of televangelists, bible camp, reality tv, and week-long funeral rites for overdosed pop stars has succeeded all too well. Or, as Walt Kelly's Pogo more eloquently put it, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

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Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2012, 12:14:17 PM »
I fear I have not expressed myself with sufficient clarity.

If it were only the candidates who are misinformed, misogynistic theocratics, I would sleep much more soundly at night. Say what you will about the quality of polling, it seems to me undeniable that America has become a much more hospitable home to ignorance, intolerance and superstition. It may be comforting to indulge the belief that the problem is more apparent than real, and that the appearance is primarily attributable to the lack of options at the electoral buffet. I think, though, the better explanation is that the offered stew of religious militancy, xenophobia, and open hostility to thought has been plated to satisfy widely shared appetites.

Perhaps popular democracy in the land of televangelists, bible camp, reality tv, and week-long funeral rites for overdosed pop stars has succeeded all too well. Or, as Walt Kelly's Pogo more eloquently put it, "We have met the enemy and he is us."


You're probably right about that - putting a specific number on it isn't as easy, but it's very apparent to me that there's a lot of catering to the extremes, and a lot of ignoring of the moderates.  I don't trust having a whole worldview summed up by crisp, clean graphs (human beings just aren't able to be put in neat, little boxes made of ticky-tacky), but I read and people-watch a lot

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2012, 01:23:24 PM »
Georgia Dems did a 'tongue in cheek' response to some of their stupidity.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/21/georgia-democrats-to-propose-limitations-on-vasectomies-for-men/

Offline Trieste

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Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2012, 01:53:01 PM »
Quote
In January, as the Virginia state Senate debated a bill that required women to have an ultrasound before an abortion, Democrat Janet Howell attached an amendment that required men to have rectal exams and cardiac stress tests before they could receive prescriptions for erectile dysfunction medication like Viagra.

*dies laughing*

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2012, 02:02:19 PM »
*dies laughing*

I know.. my ribs are hurting.

Offline Trieste

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Re: WTH?! So glad I do not live in Virginia
« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2012, 08:09:16 PM »
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