You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 11, 2016, 02:12:23 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'  (Read 3485 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


Offline Caeli

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 08:04:13 PM »
That is a hideous political and social stance for any person to take. How utterly appalling.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 08:09:43 PM »
That is a hideous political and social stance for any person to take. How utterly appalling.

Let's be fair.. Fox News and 'Fair and Balanced reporting' aren't even in the same time zones.

Offline Caeli

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 08:21:19 PM »
I really wasn't even referring to it being on Fox News, in all honesty. I feel that it's a hideous political/social stance to take regardless of what philosophical/political/spiritual/religious/anything that you ascribe to as an individual.

Offline Shjade

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 08:50:35 PM »
While it wouldn't really be any "better" as a statement, pre-reading, I'm really hoping this is in the context that they should expect to be raped by the enemy.

Somehow I'm betting that won't be the case, though. :|

Post-reading edit: Yeah, that's what I thought it'd be saying. *sigh* Some people.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 08:53:27 PM by Shjade »

Offline Caela

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 09:02:05 PM »
Listening to that just about made me ill! That is a horrid statement to make. I somewhat understand the warning that woman captured in combat may be raped by the enemy but no ONE should have to be worried about being raped by their own co-workers no matter WHAT their job is!

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2012, 09:04:32 PM »
Given that the incidences of rape are high in the military if you are a woman according to her means that you join up expecting to be raped and if your expectations are any different you're an idiot - according to her.

I wouldn't expect anything else from FOX News.  If FOX thinks they can get mileage from a report (in this case women's safety in the military) you should expect to be raped.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2012, 09:10:42 PM »
Speaking as a Vet, I've been involved in TWO rape investigations in my naval career. Both were when the whole damn squadron was pulled in and asked questions about specific individuals and how they had behaved 'the day before' the event went down. The second event was a LOT more questionable.

Last time I checked, if your part of the victims chain of command, you shouldn't be directly involved in the investigation or the Captain's Mast and follow up proceedings. It was a mess from day one. Two of our guys went to jail, lost their careers and will forever be smeared with what turned out to be a bit of 'regret' (she finally fessed up.. about 18 months into their sentences.)

Offline gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2012, 09:27:28 PM »
If the angle had been that women personnel should be aware of the risk of rape by enemy forces, it would have been a rough reminder - but I'm sure many women who apply to the military are aware of this already. Rape in war has been a weapon and a way to degrade the other side for thousands of years; in the really old times, when a city was taken and sacked, all its women were sold as slaves and/or raped, while the men were killed outright. But of course that wasn't what Ms Trotta was talking about. Could it get more cynical and stupid?  ???
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 09:31:26 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Shjade

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2012, 09:28:29 PM »
Given that the incidences of rape are high in the military if you are a woman according to her means that you join up expecting to be raped and if your expectations are any different you're an idiot - according to her.

While I still disagree, when you put it that way, I can see the logic behind it. The whole "she was asking for it by dressing that way" argument doesn't hold water in the slightest, but "she knew the frequency of rape in that alley and walked in anyway" sounds vaguely sensible in some slight way. It's still blaming the victim and essentially condones rape - wrong on a variety of levels - but I don't feel like I can accurately call it "idiotic" the way I can the "dressed that way" position.

Offline Serephino

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 11:30:21 PM »
I can't wrap my mind around how a woman could say that.  I could see a man saying something like that but... *jaw drop*

I know it's an unfortunate fact of life, but I don't think trying to prevent it is a waste of money.  A high school friend of mine was raped twice that I know of while in the Navy. 

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2012, 11:36:38 PM »
I can't wrap my mind around how a woman could say that.  I could see a man saying something like that but... *jaw drop*

I know it's an unfortunate fact of life, but I don't think trying to prevent it is a waste of money.  A high school friend of mine was raped twice that I know of while in the Navy. 


what gets me is I KNOW that rape isn't JUST a female problem in the Navy. There have been issues of it on the carrier between men. I know that in some of the lower spaces of the ship there were some SERIOUS rapes going down. When a guy shows up bleeding from his rectum and has a couple teeth missing and is an emotional wreck and the SPs lock down the space and send in a corpman to collect evidence you know something went down.

I had one salt tell me point blank when I got sent TAD (temporary assigned duty) to stay in our spaces since the ones down below had 'problems' and more than a few 'bangers looking for guys like you'
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 11:39:12 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Sabby

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 12:23:00 AM »
Wait, I'm confused... is everyone taking offense at the tone, or the way it was worded? If the article is being offensive and saying durr, if your a chick in the army, you'll probably get raped, so deal with it, I'd understand the outrage, but let's face it, if your captured, and your a woman, your captors are going to want a piece of you. Not to say they would get a piece, that all of them would want a piece, and that if one tried to attain a piece his commanding officer wouldn't introduce his ass to a court marshal, but the chances of rape from an all male military is a lot higher for a woman then a man. Hell, an all male squad. I thought this was just a common fear, like girly boys being raped in prison showers.

Plus consider if this female soldier is serving somewhere where the soldiers don't have high regards for women and aren't kept on a very short leash. Like, ya know... the kind we're facing right now.

Sorry to be Devils Advocate here, it's not my usual job Dx

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 01:14:40 AM »
Personally, I take offense at the word 'expect'.  Should they be careful because of a danger of rape?  Yes.  The same way that anyone should be aware of potential threats.  Saying they should 'expect' to be raped is essentially conveying that 'it's going to happen, it's going to happen to you, there's nothing you can do about it, so just be ready to shut up and deal with it.' 

Offline Shjade

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 02:13:28 AM »
Wait, I'm confused... is everyone taking offense at the tone, or the way it was worded? If the article is being offensive and saying durr, if your a chick in the army, you'll probably get raped, so deal with it, I'd understand the outrage, but let's face it, if your captured, and your a woman, your captors are going to want a piece of you.

Everyone is taking offense at this not being about being captured. The statement is regarding women in the army being raped by guys also in the army. Their peers, not their enemies.

@Callie: I believe those incidents are purposely overlooked by the media due to the military's unofficial policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Yell." *rimshot*
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 02:28:52 AM by Shjade »

Offline Lilias

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2012, 04:14:20 AM »
The comments were the only thing that stopped my blood pressure from going through the roof. Precious.

Offline gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2012, 06:08:32 AM »
If it was about the conduct of enemy forces it wouldn't be a surprise at all. Only it should have taken a qualifier: you don't have to be a military person, of course. Female journalists, housewives and farmers get raped and/or tortured by enemy forces in war. Happened in WW2, in Vietnam (on both sides probably, with superiors turning a blind eye) and in Bosnia. But Trotta is explicitly referring to what one's own fellow troops can be expected to do, and implies it's just a "boys will be boys" thing: no offence.

Offline RP7466

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2012, 08:35:56 AM »
I think she is a piss poor reporter. It seemed she was getting at the correlation between the increase in sexual assault and the increase in women in combat zones,and the cost increase. And the words "expect to be raped" where never said. The regular newscaster was also debating her on the topic, so to say that Fox news says women should expect to be raped is inaccurate to say the least.

That being said I served as an Infantryman in Iraq, as well as in a combined Arms unit while I was awaiting a medboard. There was a HUGE difference in how well a unit functions when women and men serve in the same unit, it complicates things. Combat is difficult enough without having to complicate it with relationships/sex. This isn't a flippin welding shop, it's war. If women want to serve that's fine but it should be in strictly female units.     

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 09:06:17 AM »
Everyone is taking offense at this not being about being captured. The statement is regarding women in the army being raped by guys also in the army. Their peers, not their enemies.

@Callie: I believe those incidents are purposely overlooked by the media due to the military's unofficial policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Yell." *rimshot*

Some of this stuff had been going on WAY before DADT. Like the filming of gay porn in a dental department on one ship, or the rapes in the lower spaces or a few other thing that went on for YEARS that never made the news.  After coed ships you had prostitution rings going down. One airman, she had like two DOZEN+ men setting up allotments to her.  To the point she was making like six times her base pay each month.  It was kept fairly quiet and she got off with next to nothing, word was she had LOTS of names when she was caught. So she was quietly transferred of the ship to the middle of nowhere.

Offline Trieste

  • Faerie Queen; Her Imperial Lubemajesty; Willing Victim
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: In the middle of Happily Ever After with a dark Prince Charming.
  • Gender: Female
  • I am many things - dull is not one of them.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 4
Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 09:17:35 AM »
That being said I served as an Infantryman in Iraq, as well as in a combined Arms unit while I was awaiting a medboard. There was a HUGE difference in how well a unit functions when women and men serve in the same unit, it complicates things. Combat is difficult enough without having to complicate it with relationships/sex. This isn't a flippin welding shop, it's war. If women want to serve that's fine but it should be in strictly female units.     

All male and all female units would still have the 'complication' of relationships/sex, especially given the repeal of DADT. Separate-but-equal is unacceptable for anyone. Anyone. It would be most prudent to stop thinking with one's ovaries or one's testicles and focus on one's (highly dangerous, extremely stressful, usually very skilled) job.



I'm personally convinced that this woman was dropped on her head as a child. Either that or someone with "FEMINIST" written on her forehead pissed in the reporter's Cheerios.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2012, 09:28:33 AM »
All male and all female units would still have the 'complication' of relationships/sex, especially given the repeal of DADT. Separate-but-equal is unacceptable for anyone. Anyone. It would be most prudent to stop thinking with one's ovaries or one's testicles and focus on one's (highly dangerous, extremely stressful, usually very skilled) job.



I'm personally convinced that this woman was dropped on her head as a child. Either that or someone with "FEMINIST" written on her forehead pissed in the reporter's Cheerios.

Should. Yes. Do.  Not so much. Danger, even just working on a carrier flight deck, tends to focus you on things that are..well..essential, primal?  It's hard to explain, when you deploy..the world sort of..shrinks. You get very close with folks you most likely never hang with in real life and it builds bonds.. For good or bad, you KNOW these people in a different way than just classmates or friends.

Some of that, for some,can be sexual. Lord knows that I've heard shit between folks while I was in that would have friends I know out of service thinking my coworkers were gay or a couple when all it was really was shit talk to keep us relaxed and flexible. Some of the guys I knew.. I wouldn't want to meet my mom but I trusted them to grab me and throwme in a catwalk to keep me allive. It comes down to doing the job and knowing you rely on each other. Makes for a very weird world.

Probably not making sense so I'll shut up now.

Offline Trieste

  • Faerie Queen; Her Imperial Lubemajesty; Willing Victim
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: In the middle of Happily Ever After with a dark Prince Charming.
  • Gender: Female
  • I am many things - dull is not one of them.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 4
Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2012, 09:35:03 AM »
I know it's pretty intense. The main thrust of my point is that segregated units really doesn't kill the potential for a relationship or sexual feelings to develop... All it does is provide another gender divide.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2012, 10:12:22 AM »
Realistically the issue of a gender divide would have to be held up against the safety and effectiveness of the unit and the amount of training and indoctrination needed to bring all genders to a point where they are reading from the same handbook.  Some things transcend the gender divide issue.

I worked in an office where the Administrative Assistant to the president of the company was having an affair with one of the production workers.  She was divorced and he was separated.  It was only after the man quit that we all became aware of how sexually charged the atmosphere had been and how adversely their relationship and the conduct of it had effected many of us.

A military unit deployed to a fighting zone has a primary responsibility to carry out their orders and maintain the highest degree of safety for all members of that unit.  Any one person who has a negative effect on the ability of the unit to do their job needs to be dealt with and if that means removing them from the unit so be it.  Yet, even that option can harm the unit. 

Personal relationships, gender divides and another concerns outside the unit effectiveness need to be irrelevant in my opinion for order to be maintained.  That's how it would work in a perfect world but this world is far from perfect. 

Offline Will

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2012, 10:26:16 AM »
It isn't just the "expect" wording that was offensive, I think.  There's also the fact that she essentially painted feminist groups as hoarding government funds by establishing programs to help soldiers who are raped.  She says, not only should they expect to be raped, but they shouldn't have any resources to help them deal with it.  Because they knew the risk going in, they, uh... deserve what they get?  I guess.

There's a difference between being realistic, and being a cold-hearted asshole.  The difference is in the attitude.  Just because a situation is imperfect doesn't mean it has to always be imperfect, or that it doesn't need our attention.

Also, I would assume that she works with men?  I wonder how many times she's been raped?  I mean, Fox News can't be much less misogynist than the military.  :P

Offline RP7466

Re: 'Women in the Military should expect to be raped, says Fox News'
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2012, 10:33:11 AM »
My post was based on what I actually saw in the military. I went from an all male infantry platoon, to a headquarters unit while i was medboarded. In the infantry we where all focused and effective. There was no sexual tension, no relationships, no gossiping.

At the headquarters (male and female) unit it might as well been high school. That stuff is fine and can be handled in offices, welding shops, retail, etc. Combat is not an environment where you can go home, quit, leave to file a complaint with the HR department etc. I didn't even get a shower until 5 months into the deployment nor a roof over my head. If we had a problem with someone we scuffed em up and moved on. there is no time for filing complaints and administrative bullshit because of people fraternizing or not getting along. The fact of the matter is there is no job that can be compaired to it, and to think that the same sort of policy's should apply is ridiculous.   
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 10:35:42 AM by RP7466 »