(Interest Check) Mordheim (Crunchy Warband management/Narrative Combat)

[shengami]

Hi~~!

Sooo, I've been working on a thread that contains the rules/lore/details HERE. Check it out. It's a bit of a read, but it's all there. Well, mostly. There's a couple bits still under revisions. But I wanted to get an interest thread going. Also, need to put up the NPC warbands, but need to rebuild them. Cheers!

Briefly:
Medium: Partially Discord/Partially E

System: Homebrewed. The Warband management side is crunchy. The combat missions are narrative. There's lots of room for RP during down time as well. This is something I built on my own, so I don't mind feedback. If the system scares you off, let me know why.

Inspirations: Mordheim (tabletop game from Games Workshop), Mordheim: City of the Damned (video game), as well as a lot of other games that are based in managing a small group of characters as a unit. It's one of my favorite genres. BG3, Kingdom Under Fire, XCOM, Bloodbowl, Necromunda, and many others. This is why the mechanics focus is on the warband management side, not the missions. This is also why everything is turn-based.

GM Approach: I will be customizing aspects to each player warband, I have seeded the Dramatis Personae of the setting with plot hooks. There is a central plot. I expect the game to take IRL-time 2-3 years. So, I need people to be willing to invest time and be reliable. I have put, and will continue to put, a lot of time and investment into this. While I get that IRL life is important, I value communication and have built things into this for it. But I also expect you to invest some energy here. Please?

Forum: This game will explore some of the gritty, grim, dark fantasy tones of the Warhammer Old World setting, so I will be putting it in Extreme. Spicy content is welcome, but will not be a narrative focus. I'd ask that you keep such content to the threads that will be designated for it and respect others On/Offs. Please make liberal use of Trigger warnings and Spoilers. please, get consent for any and all spicy scenes from prospective partners. I'm going to be reasonable, but fairly intolerant. That all said, I'll also be happy to play with some of the absurd and comical aspects of the setting as well. Greenskins are a faction here...

As always, communication and consent are my keywords. Those who know me, know I am serious about it. Several people have helped me playtest aspects of this. I would ask those of you who did and are interested to read the thread carefully. Things changed between alpha, beta, and now. Some of you might want to reuse the warbands you rolled up with me, they may need tweaking. Just keep that in mind.

If you are interested, drop a message stating who you are, what drew you in, and what factions you might be interested in. Questions about any aspects of the game are also welcome.

I want 6-8 warbands, so I'd like to see at least 6 people interested.

Cheers!

P.S. The image linked above is the property of a particularly litigious company, so I am going to be careful and acknowledge that is an official image from Games Workshop for the original tabletop game. It is used here, hopefully, under fair use laws. If not, I'm happy to remove it.

[CurvyKitten]

Plants flag of interest!!!

[Rashol]

Oooh... I don't know whether to be interested or run scared. 

If I do this I might have to have 300 warbands on back up because I struggle to get to the end of a paragraph these days. So a competitive writing game will be an extreme challenge...

[shengami]

Hi Curvy! You should still try to answer my questions. Some people have reservations about what others are interested in.

Hey Rash. I can see that being a real issue, yeah. Having a backup idea would probably be an idea, but the game is set up such that losing does not necessarily mean you get nothing or never grow. You can still escape with loots and advance. That said, writing the pays attention to details and Mission goals is part of the system as well.

But I figured that system was going to be daunting for some! I plan to be experimental, open, understanding in the early game.

[Terian]

Yeah, I've got an idea or two, I'll take a stab at this when I can shake an hour or two free to do something.

Specifically, honestly, I kind of want to run a Chaos warband that's, you know, not a bunch of insane lunatics who have no agenda except glorifying a bunch of asshole Gods who'll just as easily kill you as they will promote you to demigodhood because you fucked up in a funny enough way.  Ones who want power, knowledge, and all the trappings of it, but don't feel like going from one repressive master to another.

Also, you know, trying an approach that isn't Generic Superhuman Viking Killing Machine aesthetic or slinky cultist seducer type.  For all Chaos is supposed to be "Do what you want lmao the only thing that matters is if you can walk your walk", it's depressingly one of the most straitlaced factions in the setting, because there's only four types of characters who are allowed to exist apparently.

"Why are we here?  Well, first and foremost, this is a free fire zone where there's no central authority that will burn you for having the gall to indulge in the Arcane Practicses, but second is a chance to do the usual routine--accumulate power, wealth, and knowledge from taking it from all the people coming for the Warpstone in the first place."

And yes, because I want a smart looking lady in Chaos Armor instead of vapor, because I know my tastes and this is something that's not really catered to in practice.

[shengami]

Yeah, I've got an idea or two, I'll take a stab at this when I can shake an hour or two free to do something.

Specifically, honestly, I kind of want to run a Chaos warband that's, you know, not a bunch of insane lunatics who have no agenda except glorifying a bunch of asshole Gods who'll just as easily kill you as they will promote you to demigodhood because you fucked up in a funny enough way.  Ones who want power, knowledge, and all the trappings of it, but don't feel like going from one repressive master to another.

Also, you know, trying an approach that isn't Generic Superhuman Viking Killing Machine aesthetic or slinky cultist seducer type.  For all Chaos is supposed to be "Do what you want lmao the only thing that matters is if you can walk your walk", it's depressingly one of the most straitlaced factions in the setting, because there's only four types of characters who are allowed to exist apparently.

"Why are we here?  Well, first and foremost, this is a free fire zone where there's no central authority that will burn you for having the gall to indulge in the Arcane Practicses, but second is a chance to do the usual routine--accumulate power, wealth, and knowledge from taking it from all the people coming for the Warpstone in the first place."

And yes, because I want a smart looking lady in Chaos Armor instead of vapor, because I know my tastes and this is something that's not really catered to in practice.

Well, this is Fantasy not 40k, so there's a bit more room for a uniquer approaches to Chaos. There is some calcification due to the northern tribes being what they are and the four major gods favoring what they do, but one of the NPC warbands is a group of fallen Sisters of Sigmar who are trying to protect 'everyone.' Chaos Dwarfs are also a chaos faction. Undivided as a faction is far more prominent in general as well as several minor chaos gods. So, if you got an approach you want to try, I'd welcome it! I am a fan of not taking the stereotype of each god and looking at their actual portfolio. I.e. Slaanesh is the god of excess, not sluttiness. People just tend to take it that way. But zeal is another form of excess...

Everything above sounds intriguing really.

Though the 'why are you here' thing was more directed at the player than the potential character? But that is a good reason to seek out Mordheim and gather wyrdstone.

[Terian]

Hah, I suppose I'm here because I just like Warhammer Fantasy and I like getting to play with unusual characters with regards to the setting?

But I mostly play these games to subvert the standard instead of just be a generic sort of thing, and you've put a lot of effort into this (Even if there seems to be a lot of things that aren't quite ready to go yet.  How does progression work?  Do Potents start with any gear or just whatever they have on their back?  What's the Eye of the Gods even do, that kind of thing, so many questions!)

But yes, you can consider this my formal declaration of Interest--though a full out writeup will have to wait until there's enough to do at least a Chaos Undivided warband.

[shengami]

Hah, I suppose I'm here because I just like Warhammer Fantasy and I like getting to play with unusual characters with regards to the setting?

But I mostly play these games to subvert the standard instead of just be a generic sort of thing, and you've put a lot of effort into this (Even if there seems to be a lot of things that aren't quite ready to go yet.  How does progression work?  Do Potents start with any gear or just whatever they have on their back?  What's the Eye of the Gods even do, that kind of thing, so many questions!)

But yes, you can consider this my formal declaration of Interest--though a full out writeup will have to wait until there's enough to do at least a Chaos Undivided warband.

Fair. Warhammer Fantasy is a wonderful setting It's really fun.

Subverting the expectations is a thing I happily welcome. Love turning tropes on their head. And yeah, there's some stuff that seems loose and some that is loose. Some is meant to be Narrative (like Eye of the Gods which I want to be more a discussion than a hard rule), I tried explaining Advancement but maybe need to review it but again want it to be looser, and Potents gain equipment the same way the rest of the warbands does. Is that not apparent!? I need to go look at that. Haha.

Thanks for the interest though. Feel free to poke more if this gets up and running. Or just if you want to.

And finally? Undivided is already an option. There isn't a Mark for it, I think, Kinda. I think one of the DP or Mercs has one? But the base, generic Cultists warband is Undivided if you don't pick one of the god-based subfactions. heh

[Terian]

Okie doke!

But yeah, gearwise, I just wasn't sure if anyone even started with anything, though I could be mistaken.

[shengami]

Okie doke!

But yeah, gearwise, I just wasn't sure if anyone even started with anything, though I could be mistaken.

Ah, what each starts with is in the profile templates. Basically, everyone has clothing and a dagger plus whatever EQ you buy as part of the creation process.

[Terian]

Right, so, 50 gold for the entire warband?

Yeesh, we're poor as shit.

[shengami]

Right, so, 50 gold for the entire warband?

Yeesh, we're poor as shit.

50gm starting, but there's RP chances for more in the Creation Process as outlined in Final Steps. Essentially, every warband will start with between 50-100gm. Which still means dirt poor, but that's the scale of the game. Still, in my testing, it's been enough for some basic equipment. More than basic for certain warbands who don't invest heavily in their henchmen! LOL.

[Rashol]

Like skaven. But then someone is going to backstab the boss and steal their stuff

[shengami]

Like skaven. But then someone is going to backstab the boss and steal their stuff

Skaven are... popular. I will say that I want a spectrum of warbands though. And you can always go clan Mors which is pretty loyal on the Skaven scale.

[HairyHeretic]

No Clan Skyre? They're my fave from the Warhammer Total War.

I'd probably be interested in a Chaos warband. I had a lot of fun with the old warband narrative stuff in the Realm of Chaos books.

The Dark Elf assassin who got  the obesely fat reward.
The Champion of Khorne who got fear of blood as a reward.
The minotaur who got cowardice (1 dragon, no problem, I'll have you ... 3 goblins? 3? Not so sure about that chief)
and the Lord who got the technology reward and was gifted with a multimelta (36" range, 3" blast, -6 to armour saves, d-something wounds). You're at long range, behind hard cover, I'm still hitting your entire unit on a 2. Roll for wounds, on a 1 you live, anything else you die.

Realm of Chaos was very silly, very broken, and very fun.

Looking over the rules, are the Fallen limited to human characters, or can other races also be affected?

Edit - are the rules for mutations up anywhere?

[shengami]

No Clan Skyre? They're my fave from the Warhammer Total War.

I'd probably be interested in a Chaos warband. I had a lot of fun with the old warband narrative stuff in the Realm of Chaos books.

The Dark Elf assassin who got  the obesely fat reward.
The Champion of Khorne who got fear of blood as a reward.
The minotaur who got cowardice (1 dragon, no problem, I'll have you ... 3 goblins? 3? Not so sure about that chief)
and the Lord who got the technology reward and was gifted with a multimelta (36" range, 3" blast, -6 to armour saves, d-something wounds). You're at long range, behind hard cover, I'm still hitting your entire unit on a 2. Roll for wounds, on a 1 you live, anything else you die.

Realm of Chaos was very silly, very broken, and very fun.

Looking over the rules, are the Fallen limited to human characters, or can other races also be affected?

Edit - are the rules for mutations up anywhere?

No Clan Skryre. Mostly, the lore has Eshin controlling Mordheim. I included Mors because they are generic and Moulder as they are very close. A small part of it is that I hate Skryre.

That does sound silly.

Fallen? Umm, yes. The entry says they must have the Human keyword. I debated otherwise, but there was no easy way to allow things while excluding others. But I am open to discussions about any given thing.

Mutations have not been defined yet as there are simply way, way, too many to do so easily. I have basic ideas for how they work and there are soem examples floating around of how they work. I'm sorta treating mutations like they do in the Bloodbowl video games? If you played them? They give you certain rules is all. Oh and make you the target of witch hunts!

[HairyHeretic]

Fallen? Umm, yes. The entry says they must have the Human keyword. I debated otherwise, but there was no easy way to allow things while excluding others. But I am open to discussions about any given thing.

Mutations have not been defined yet as there are simply way, way, too many to do so easily. I have basic ideas for how they work and there are soem examples floating around of how they work. I'm sorta treating mutations like they do in the Bloodbowl video games? If you played them? They give you certain rules is all. Oh and make you the target of witch hunts!

Narratively could you have other races included via the Fallen, but use the human statlines and equipment for them? If you want to stick with just humans, that's fine. I've been a Chaos player since the original RoC days, so I remember seeing a lot more variety in what Chaos followers could be like. Dwarves, elves, dark elves, fimir, all can serve equally as cannon fodder

Yeah, I've played BB2 and 3 so quite familiar with the rules there. 

On a similar note, will there be any rewards for a character following a particular chaos god over another? Kinda like the Chaos Marks in 40k or (I presume) Fantasy?

[shengami]

Narratively could you have other races included via the Fallen, but use the human statlines and equipment for them? If you want to stick with just humans, that's fine. I've been a Chaos player since the original RoC days, so I remember seeing a lot more variety in what Chaos followers could be like. Dwarves, elves, dark elves, fimir, all can serve equally as cannon fodder

Yeah, I've played BB2 and 3 so quite familiar with the rules there.

On a similar note, will there be any rewards for a character following a particular chaos god over another? Kinda like the Chaos Marks in 40k or (I presume) Fantasy?

I am aware that many races have fallen to Chaos though humans do number the majority. There are Chaos Dwarf characters in the mercenaries section. Elves are meant to be rare in the Old World but, again, discussions can be had. Fimir as well. I also wouldn't mind using tribes beyond the Norscans. Uh, Dragon Ogres and that scale are a bit beyond what I am looking for in this game. Just keep in mind that Mordheim is meant to be a low scale game. These are not the great heroes/villains of the world, these are neighborhood thugs. Or at least starting that way. The basic Chaos Warrior is meant to be on the upper end of the scale. But yes, if the game gets off the ground, we can discuss situations.

The Cultist Warband rules has the four main gods built in. The equipment section has the marks and a limited selection of the gods' favorite gifts.

[HairyHeretic]

Ah, I missed the Marks being in the gear section, my bad :) Am I right in understanding that if you take say a Champion of Tzeentch, you're warrior and wizard both?

I saw the Chaos dwarfs in the merc section. They look like they could be fun.

Mutation-wise, its pretty much inevitable that any follower of chaos is going to get mutations at some point. That's pretty much par for the course. You just have to hope you get useful ones. :)

In terms of magic, using this 

https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Winds_of_Magic

might give some useful spells, though obviously scaled down from a battlefield to a skirmish.

[shengami]

Ah, I missed the Marks being in the gear section, my bad :) Am I right in understanding that if you take say a Champion of Tzeentch, you're warrior and wizard both?

I saw the Chaos dwarfs in the merc section. They look like they could be fun.

Mutation-wise, its pretty much inevitable that any follower of chaos is going to get mutations at some point. That's pretty much par for the course. You just have to hope you get useful ones. :)

In terms of magic, using this

https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Winds_of_Magic

might give some useful spells, though obviously scaled down from a battlefield to a skirmish.

That is possible for Tzeench as they are the magicy god. And the mark does give you the ability to use magic. So if you started with an Aspiring Champion and gave them the mark, they are now a warrior and wizard. Though splitting Advancements between warrior tricks and spells means you wouldn't be great at either. Though at least you're interested in Tzeench... not my least favorite of the chaos gods!

It is. In part, that's one manifestation of Eye of the Gods. You might get a random, bad, mutation. But generally, I want 'taking' mutations to be good. In the old tabletop version, you bought them with gold. In the video game, they came randomly. Trying to mix that. You take them with advancements. Er, my idea is that you can take what you want but the really powerful and really bad ones are off limits. Random ones open those extremes, but they are random! LOL. Again, mutations are meant to be a conversation (minor) with me when desired.

Chaos Dwarfs are fun! Big Hats, rune magic, plus fire/shadow magic and their sorcerers slowly turn to stone. They don't mutate a lot (Dwarf physiology), but do have some race-wide stable mutations like tusks. Anyway, their homeland is far away, but I wanted a bit of representations for them.

Yes, that site has a lot of useful magic spells you might use. I've borrowed a few from it for various writeups. You could use it as a guide or adapt D&D stuff or Shadowrun stuff or make it up yourself. I really want there to be room to be creative. Even utility spells for Downtime and such are encouraged. The Missions are not meant to be the majority of the game. Eh, they are a big part, but not more important than other downtime stuff.

[HairyHeretic]

I like Tzeentch and Nurgle both. Khorne is a bit one dimensional, and Slaanesh usually has no end of admirers, so I prefer to take something different. I've a Death Guard army, and converting up the models is fun.

And the idea of lobbing Nurglings at people is also quite amusing

For mutations you could do something like a 2d6 roll

2 - Bad mutation
3-4 - Cosmetic mutation / minimal in game effect
5-11 - Decent mutation / useful effect
12 - Really good mutation

so in general you'd get something useful, but not always. Its Chaos, thats the way it goes :)

[shengami]

I like Tzeentch and Nurgle both. Khorne is a bit one dimensional, and Slaanesh usually has no end of admirers, so I prefer to take something different. I've a Death Guard army, and converting up the models is fun.

And the idea of lobbing Nurglings at people is also quite amusing

For mutations you could do something like a 2d6 roll

2 - Bad mutation
3-4 - Cosmetic mutation / minimal in game effect
5-11 - Decent mutation / useful effect
12 - Really good mutation

so in general you'd get something useful, but not always. Its Chaos, thats the way it goes :)

See, I'm a Khorne fan. World Eaters is my CSM faction. I like the purity of it. The idea that you leave all concern (past, present, future) behind and fully embrace a singularity. You embrace it so much that any notions of connection, loyalty, anything beyond that single need disappears. LOL. Nurgle is my least favorite of the major chaos gods.

But anyways: I have a general idea along those lines. Yes. I'm not going to be transparent about that mechanic and a few others until such time as I see a need to. LOL. But yes, the goal is to generally have things favor the PCs slightly. It is Warhammer! It will be dark and gritty as I outlined in the opening post. Thus, the injuries charts tend to slightly favor the PCs just a tiny bit. Though they ARE still injuries. Same for getting home alone in Mordheim and the random happenings charts. All meant as mechanical/narrative challenges with a potential to be used to advance.

As I state repeatedly in the rules, my focus is on the cool story and the management of the warbands' stories not the battles. Those are just part of the story.

[CurvyKitten]

Hi Curvy! You should still try to answer my questions. Some people have reservations about what others are interested in.
Hey Rash. I can see that being a real issue, yeah. Having a backup idea would probably be an idea, but the game is set up such that losing does not necessarily mean you get nothing or never grow. You can still escape with loots and advance. That said, writing the pays attention to details and Mission goals is part of the system as well.
But I figured that system was going to be daunting for some! I plan to be experimental, open, understanding in the early game.

 who you are, what drew you in, and what factions you might be interested in?

I am Curvykitten. You did @shengami ! Dawi or the Sister of Sigmar a sub faction of Sigmarites. 

[shengami]

who you are, what drew you in, and what factions you might be interested in?

I am Curvykitten. You did @shengami ! Dawi or the Sister of Sigmar a sub faction of Sigmarites.

D'awww!!!

Also, yay variety!

[HairyHeretic]

See, I'm a Khorne fan. World Eaters is my CSM faction. I like the purity of it. The idea that you leave all concern (past, present, future) behind and fully embrace a singularity. You embrace it so much that any notions of connection, loyalty, anything beyond that single need disappears. LOL. Nurgle is my least favorite of the major chaos gods.

I have World Eaters as well :) I have 4 different CSM armies. My own renegades from 2nd ed, added WEs in 4th, Night Lords after I read the Night Lords trilogy, and then Death Guard. Alpha Legion also tempts me :)

Kharn taking on Erebus in the Conquerer's duelling pits is one of my favourite HH scenes.