The 2022 U.S. Election

[Oniya]

Still waiting on your explanation of how he's 'corrupt'.

Hair sniffing?  If that's your idea of corruption, I've got at least three other world leaders that top that easily.  Most of them are people Trump is enamored with.

[Humble Scribe]

It's pretty small beer by the standards of the Trump family, but there's a faint hint in the Hunter Biden emails about "10% to be held by H for the Big Guy."

That most certainly does not make Joe Biden the most corrupt US politician after Trump - that's just Republican hyperbole. It doesn't mean there isn't a case to answer, though.

[Vekseid]

There's been so other many occurances at different times it became a meme. If it happened once fine but if you can make compilation video.

His granddaughter features front and center as the most prominent example, at her dad's funeral, and you don't question the others?

Remove his relatives.

Remove his period of mourning after his son's death.

Remove the misleading camera angles.

What are you left with?

Meanwhile the people making these accusation were fine with a guy who brags about sexually harassing underaged girls and committing sexual assault. I'm supposed to take you seriously?

It reminds me mostly of Project Veritas and ACORN. Do whatever you can to dehumanize your opponent. Doesn't matter what good you destroy in the mean time. Or how innocent they are. Or what they are going through.

Just throw baseless, sourceless accusations (as you have done with Biden's supposed corruption). The number of investigations was cited by members as evidence of ACORN's guilt. Turns out they were innocent.

The facts don't matter. Only the impression.

Oh I watch news from a number of sources on both sides. None of them are Fox News or InfoWars FYI.

If you aren't actually being informed, I would not call them sources.

From what you've described, they sound more like anger and cynicism for sale.

It doesn't make you better prepared for the future.

At best, it wastes your time.

At the worst, you believe it, and allow it to lead you to some improper decisions.



Biden's foreign policy is going to be regarded as one of the most incredible diplomatic turnarounds in world history.

All Putin had to do to ruin him was leave Ukraine alone.

Biden put US intelligence out there, knowing if Putin did decide ruining US influence was the way to go, at least Biden would have stopped a war.

Whatever you may think, this was a genuine moment of integrity on Biden's part. Republicans aren't going to give him any accolades for it, but it was the right thing to do.

[Chulanowa]

Did you just refer to the US as the above?  :o

He's not wrong.

It's just that modern, western democracy is completely non-responsive except ro rhe needs of capital. Your only purpose, as a voter in a liberal western democracy, is to grant consent to your own abuse and exploitation.

The only reason to vote under a dictatorship of capital is to attempt to disrupt that dictatorship. It probably won't work, but rhe effort is free for non-Floridians.

[gaggedLouise]

He's not wrong.

I'm female, so please...  :-)

[Azy]

As far as Biden being corrupt, all I've heard much about is his son Hunter and using influence to get him jobs.  Trump gave his daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared White House positions.  What exactly were their qualifications?  Many of Trump's cabinet picks had no experience or knowledge in those areas, but they made large donations to his campaign (one he claimed he was only going to use his own billions for btw). 

I generally very much dislike that what about... line of reasoning, but there it is.  Nepotism is so much a thing it has its own word.  Probably every single Republican who is whining about Hunter Biden has done similar things themselves.  It was only brought up during the campaign because Trump was desperate for something to use against the man in the election.  Have we already forgotten that he withheld aid to Ukraine that was earmarked for them because he wanted to be able to say that the Ukrainian government was launching an investigation.  He was afraid of facing Biden in an election, and for good reason. 

Of course I'm not going to sit here and claim that Democrats are the white knights in shining armor.  Biden probably has used political capital to do favors for family and friends.  I'm not aware of anything specific, but probably all career politicians have done it here and there.  I'm not thrilled about it, but it's human nature.  That's part of why people want term limits, to reign in that crap.  I don't buy the whole one side is evil and the other is the good savior in white robes.  I'm just not that stupid. 

That being said, we don't see a lot of Democrats attacking Republican Congress persons' families...     https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/07/politics/nancy-pelosi-interview-paul-pelosi-attack

And then of course January 6th, where there was a huge mob overrunning the capitol.  Mike Pence just now released a book and did an interview.  They had a noose and they were going to hunt him down and hang him for not violating the actual Constitution.  There was nothing the man could do, it's mostly a ceremonial thing.  Blind devotion like that is dangerous, and we're seeing it mostly from Republicans.  In 2016 when Trump won, many of us were not happy.  We bitched about it.  We did say that a big part of his win was Russian interference.  Most US intelligence said that.  Did we round up a mob and storm the capitol?  No.  There's a big difference between bitching and trying to overthrow democracy.   

     

[Twisted Crow]

I am not sure about whether or not he is corrupt. My concern is his headspace. A reason that I might doubt Biden for my (ideal) number one draft pick next term is that his body seems to be outliving his mind.  :-\

[Twisted Crow]

To speak plainly. He might last these two more years just fine. I'm just not entirely convinced that he has another 4 years in his 'tank', if that makes any sense.

[Oniya]

I'm also not trying to paint Biden as some sort of flawless savior.  I just expect that if a comparison is made, that there be something actually corrupt put forward.  If there's corruption, I'm all for investigating it, whatever side it's on.

[Vekseid]

For me it's a question of who is appropriate in the moment.

In two years' time I certainly hope that answer isn't Biden.

[TheGlyphstone]

Under normal circumstances I'd expect him to be setting Harris up to succeed him, but so far it seems like she's been deliberately kept out of the spotlight. I actually have no idea what she's been doing so far, and I doubt I'm the only one.

[Clio]

Under normal circumstances I'd expect him to be setting Harris up to succeed him, but so far it seems like she's been deliberately kept out of the spotlight. I actually have no idea what she's been doing so far, and I doubt I'm the only one.

I'll admit, as much as I think a woman and especially a woman of color would be an excellent choice for the presidency, I am not a Kamala fan. I'm not against her, per se, but she made some decisions in California that leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

I hate the fact that Bernie is too old, as he is one of the only politicians I trust. I think AOC would make an excellent candidate, but I don't think voters would ever give her the chance. They see her as too young or too extreme. I feel like the most we can hope for is that someone comes out of the woodwork, but that's rare. If Biden is elected again, I won't be upset, but I don't think he'll make any huge changes or reforms. It just feels like the US will never give a candidate who ACTUALLY wants to change things for the better a chance.

[persephone325]

It just feels like the US will never give a candidate who ACTUALLY wants to change things for the better a chance.

People say they want change, but most people are actually afraid of change (or don't want it) and won't vote out of their comfort zone. They want familiar and safe. And no matter what happens, people will always complain because you can never make everyone happy.

It just seems to me that we're currently living in a society where the victim complex mentality is reigning supreme. Everyone is blaming everyone else for their problems and nobody wants to take accountability for their own actions. I don't know. That's just how everything looks to me.

[Dashenka]

I'll admit, as much as I think a woman and especially a woman of color would be an excellent choice for the presidency,

Based on what? I prefer the leader of a country, any country, to be elected based on political standpoints and ability to rule.

Not based on gender or colour.

[Clio]

Based on what? I prefer the leader of a country, any country, to be elected based on political standpoints and ability to rule.

Not based on gender or colour.

I knew someone was going to say this.

Obviously I agree that it should be the best person. My favorite candidate is Bernie, and he's an old straight white man. What I mean is that for 45 out of 46 presidents, we have had white men. Having someone with a different life experience and who has experienced discrimination on a systemic level has shown to be very good for country leadership. I am not saying that all women of color are good (Like I would never vote for Candace Owens), nor are all white men bad (love Bernie). I am saying that the US has blatantly refused to elect women leaders, and I would like that to change.

You can interpret my post however you like, but I think diversity in leadership tends to lead to progress and good things. *shrugs*

[Dashenka]

Having someone with a different life experience and who has experienced discrimination on a systemic level has shown to be very good for country leadership. *snip* I am saying that the US has blatantly refused to elect women leaders, and I would like that to change.

I respect your opinion, I just don't agree :)

I don't know enough about US politics to have an opinion on that but if we look at the UK at the moment, a white female with the shortest period in office ever and now a 'black' man with an immigration background who also happens to be a billionaire. The previous female PM, Theresa May didn't finish her term either and the very first British female PM, Margaret Thatcher is hated by many.

What do they bring to the table regarding discrimination? They've all been raised in wealth and went to great schools. I'm not sure if the same is true about Obama but I'm guessing he doesn't represent the down on his luck black man 'in the hood.' What does Rishi Sunak (the British PM) a black billionaire with an Indian background know about the problems on the streets of a typical British town, with the typical British youth? What is the added value of him being black and have an Indian background? What can he do that a white Christian billionaire could not?


I'm just saying that the person for the job, should be selected on their qualities for the job, not a gender or colour and if the right person for the job is a woman of colour, fantastic but if the right person for the job is a middle aged Christian while male, so be it.

[Koekje]

Based on what? I prefer the leader of a country, any country, to be elected based on political standpoints and ability to rule.

Not based on gender or colour.

Except, you know, when your prime ministers get thrust upon you like May, Truss or Sunak, without ever involving the people's decision or vote. Just expecting that the people thst voted for the Tories are okay with just another one being picked from the party instead of general elections. After the person that campaigned for their votes just did a terrible job...

[Azy]

My point was basically that all politicians are human, and subject to human nature.  I'm just getting a little tired of the us vs them cuz they're evil narrative I see in many places.  I think a lot of people are.  It's just that Biden being a corrupt sleaze is being put out there by the GOP right now and focused on to distract from the slime that Trump and many of his allies are.  Has the man done some things that weren't considered ethical?  Probably.  Trump on the other hand has at this point done many things that were seriously illegal.  Big difference. 

I am not a huge Kamala Harris fan, haven't been since the primaries.  We haven't seen much of her since she went down to South America somewhere I think it was and basically said to those people in a speech; just don't come to the US.  That was a mistake.  I wasn't thrilled about Biden pretty much being pressured to choose a woman of color for his running mate.  Yeah, it was good optics, but I wanted the best person.  If you narrow the pool you're picking from based on gender or skin color you may be excluding the person that would be the best pick.  The best person might've been a black man or a white woman.  Personally, I liked Andrew Yang better than I liked Kamala Harris.   

I was pleasantly surprised by her during the campaign, she seemed to do what she needed to do.  The two of them worked together nicely.  Maybe the speech she gave wasn't her idea, I don't know.  I just know that that's gonna stick with her for her entire political career, and it's not gonna look good.   

[Oniya]

Some good news:  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/georgia-senate-runoff/?id=94494839

Warnock has won the Georgia Senate race.  A narrower margin than I personally find comfortable, considering the sheer WTF-ness of Walker's campaign, but the Senate is now 51-49 instead of 50-50.

[Chulanowa]

Some good news:  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/georgia-senate-runoff/?id=94494839

Warnock has won the Georgia Senate race.  A narrower margin than I personally find comfortable, considering the sheer WTF-ness of Walker's campaign, but the Senate is now 51-49 instead of 50-50.

But wait! Kyrsten Sinema has left the Democratic Party to register as an independent

[Vekseid]

She's showing more of her colors but will apparently be caucusing with Democrats to keep her committee seats.

[firepyre]

No, you bore false witness. Tarring an entire movement with the actions of one person was your singular choice.

The only person responsible for that is you. It certainly isn't on the people that got swindled, many of whom no doubt still identify with BLM.

Lies like these have destroyed innocent lives, and ruined the work of good people.

One way or another civilization will not continue permitting wild allegations like this.

We need to do better than to make, believe, and spread statements like yours.

This seems more appropriate in this thread, so I'll respond here.

Which is why you just spouted a bunch of anti-republican crap, when it's painfully obvious to everybody outside of America that the issue isn't with the Republicans, OR the Democrats, but rather the political system in general. It's so utterly flawed and corrupt that it beggars belief. Putting aside the die hard trump muppets for a moment? How do you think he got into power in the first place? You can't tell me that 50% of americans actually buy his crap?

I refuse to believe your average american is that dumb. He got into power because people hate the political class. It was a statement against a system that lets only a select few rule, where laws are largely determined by what the lobbyists are willing to pay to push through.

There's glaring issues on both sides of the political divide, and what you see is largely what you're willing to see. The left thinks the right is totally corrupt, the right thinks the left is nothing but bad eggs, and meanwhile the corrupt continue to foster and reap the benefits of that division. It's not a uniquely american problem, but it seems far more obvious/entrenched in america compared to most other western nations.

I don't know how to fix it at this point, but I worry about where america is headed. It's big enough and powerful enough that it affects everyone, american or not.

You said "We need to do better than to make, believe, and spread statements like yours."

But you did pretty much the exact same thing as Persephone(admittedly because you were invited to, which i'm not sure if that makes it better, or worse). So there was corruption within the BLM movement. So there is corruption within the republican party. A few bad eggs within the BLM movement doesnt make what it represents any less meaningful. And a few bad eggs within the republicans doesn't make all conservative views evil either.

And before you cry foul, and claim that you were only giving isolated examples or somesuch... It's pretty obvious to anybody who has interacted with you that you have pretty strongly Democratic values, and jumped on the opportunity to bag on the Republicans, tarring the entire conservative movement with the corrupt actions of a few...

I don't much like the MAGA idiots. But I don't have much love for woke identity politics either. I do think people should be able to believe and spread whatever crap they like though. I have enough faith in humanity that the shit will eventually trickle to the bottom and sort itself out.

You can believe whatever you like. But please trust other people enough to form their own opinions, and sort the bullshit from the fact. Not everyone will agree with you. But when they don't, argue with them. Try to help them see your side, present your opinions and evidence. Don't tell them they need to shut up because you don't want to hear it.

[Chulanowa]

But I don't have much love for woke identity politics either.

So you don't like people having an awareness of the various systems of oppression ,and disagree that ap erson's identity and experiences shape hteir sociopolitical beleifs?

That's a weird position.

Or are you trying to say something else? If you are, say that instead.

[firepyre]

So you don't like people having an awareness of the various systems of oppression ,and disagree that ap erson's identity and experiences shape hteir sociopolitical beleifs?

That's a weird position.

Or are you trying to say something else? If you are, say that instead.

I don't like the emphasis americans tend to put on things like race, gender, orientation, insert subgroup here. I understand that subconscious bias is a genuine issue, but I don't think labeling people and dividing them up according to those labels is the right way to go about it. It draws attention to the issues, yes, but it also normalizes and entrenches the idea that there is a difference. If you treat people differently based on race, gender, etc, then how are you any better than someone doing it unintentionally? At least they can claim ignorance.

People born in Ethiopia aren't disadvantaged because they're black. They're disadvantaged because they were born in a poor country, and because the west(and the east) is far more interested in exploiting their situation than leveling the playing field.

Work on fixing the birth lottery, not the aftermath. Make sure everyone has access to high quality education, healthcare, and ensure their basic needs are met. Implement systems to disrupt and prevent wealth transfer and control income inequality. And then just be patient and let things sort themselves out over a couple of generations. No matter what you do, it won't fix itself overnight.

Obviously, that's an extreme simplification, but I think it should be enough to grasp the general gist of my position. It will never happen, because it would require people to behave according to logic and ethics, rather than emotion. Who's going to deny their kids an inheritance because it's the right thing to do? Or refuse to help them get a job/apprenticeship/education through their connections, because it's unfair to somebody else's kids? People claim to be egalitarian, but when push comes to shove, we are far from it. We tend to care about fairness only when we ourselves are disadvantaged.

So yeah. Not quite as succinct as "Not a fan of woke identity politics." If you want explore it further, a new thread might be better.

[TheGlyphstone]

It is regrettably a lot easier to identify the problem than it is to solve it, but that goes for a lot of things. The way American cultural identity and politics is shaped by the scars of ethnic/racial divided definitely warrants a thread of its own though.