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Author Topic: Julian Assange turns himself in  (Read 1398 times)

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Online VekseidTopic starter

Julian Assange turns himself in
« on: December 07, 2010, 11:30:55 AM »
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2035595,00.html

Quote
Julian Assange, founder and spokesman of the secret-spilling website WikiLeaks, turned himself in to British police on Tuesday as part of a Swedish sex-crimes investigation.

Assange now faces questioning in relation to accusations by two women in Sweden whose various claims include having sex with him that was not fully consensual. After appearing at London's City of Westminster Magistrate's Court on Tuesday afternoon, Assange was refused bail and said he will now fight extradition to Sweden. He has not been formally charged with any crime and denies any wrongdoing.

After the accusations against him surfaced this summer, Assange left Sweden without being interviewed but was summoned back by an arrest warrant in November, a move Assange tried to appeal. On Dec. 2, the country's highest court refused Assange permission to appeal the arrest order, which led prosecutors to issue a European arrest warrant in his name.

...

This news turned up fast. It's not even afternoon here.

Offline Schrödinger

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 11:34:21 AM »
While I still suspect foul play in the matter, here's to the investigations going smoothly without international interference and pressuring of governments. I mean, this should not result in Assange getting several federal agencies on him for reporting the leaks other people have made public. Of course, there's the whole 'no bail' thing that's just atrocious.

Then again, he still has the insurance up his sleeve. Kinda curious how many people here gotten their mitts on it.

EDIT: And another source here, about the best source for on-the-ground reporting. The page even auto-refreshes to your F5 key's sweet relief.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 11:40:31 AM by Schrödinger »

Offline mystictiger

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 12:10:54 PM »
The no-bail thing is entirely understandable given:
-No UK address
-A rape charge (this one is probably key)
-Extradition proceedings.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 12:19:50 PM »
I said it before.. I think the guy is a took BUT.. something smells in Denmark.. he did something to piss someone off in Sweden.

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Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 12:31:23 PM »
I'd say the 'no UK address' is probably a big one in that list as well.  If you don't have a permanent address, you have no place that they can track you to if you decide to jump bail.  The charges (and the seriousness of them) would be an incentive for someone to jump bail.  Combine the incentive with the lack of ties, and you've got a no-bail situation.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 01:26:09 PM »
Do you blame them? He's flitted around Europe trying to find a spot to set up residence (If I recall rightly, he's been turned down for residence/citizenship in Sweden and Switzerland so far right? He's clearly looking for someplace that has some measure of 'we don't extradite' to their laws)

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Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 04:27:34 AM »
         
        Assuming he gets to Sweden... Unless he has extreme difficulty with their jails or some spy were placed inside to attack him, the sex charges may precede and delay any prosecution the US can make.  By this report, the likelihood extradition to the US from Sweden (for espionage charges etc.) is at best dubious:  http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101208/NEWS04/312089962/1006/NEWS

Quote
“If and when a U.S. request comes, it must be built with some sort of evidence and would be complicated if the same act is not punishable under Swedish law,” said Nils Rekke, head of the legal department at the Swedish prosecutor’s office in Stockholm. It would also depend, he said, on whether any crime “is considered political or military, which are omitted” from the U.S.-Swedish extradition treaty.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2010, 08:50:14 AM »
         
        Assuming he gets to Sweden... Unless he has extreme difficulty with their jails or some spy were placed inside to attack him, the sex charges may precede and delay any prosecution the US can make.  By this report, the likelihood extradition to the US from Sweden (for espionage charges etc.) is at best dubious:  http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101208/NEWS04/312089962/1006/NEWS

I'm actually kind of glad of this. I know the US is pissed at him for doing what he did BUT in all honesty I don't think we have a pot to piss on with criminal charges. (Yet, word is Senator Lieberman is trying to fix the laws to make it illegal to do what Wikkileaks did, but right now.. a foreign national outside the country can't really be prosecuted for it.)

Now, ironically I think if it had been corporate data the Justice Department might find it easier to build a case for extradition. (Though I'm still doubtful of them being able to build a case quickly enough to trump Sweden)

Personally I think as the first to file, in any case, Sweden gets first shot at him anyway.

Offline Sure

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2010, 02:00:50 PM »
I don't know if its a set up, but what I do know is that it makes sense within the legal definition of rape in Sweden. Rape in Sweden is a ridiculously broad crime, to the point where lawyers joke men need a signed consent form beforehand. One of the charges is that he didn't use a condom for example, which is a crime if the woman wants you to apparently. The most serious is coercing a woman into having sex, but its of the lowest degree possible which means the woman can claim she was 'coerced' even if she explicit consent but felt she was under 'emotional pressure'.

Still, I must admit its rather convenient.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2010, 02:02:28 PM »
I don't know if its a set up, but what I do know is that it makes sense within the legal definition of rape in Sweden. Rape in Sweden is a ridiculously broad crime, to the point where lawyers joke men need a signed consent form beforehand. One of the charges is that he didn't use a condom for example, which is a crime if the woman wants you to apparently. The most serious is coercing a woman into having sex, but its of the lowest degree possible which means the woman can claim she was 'coerced' even if she explicit consent but felt she was under 'emotional pressure'.

Still, I must admit its rather convenient.

I had heard that Sweden had broad definition BUT I couldn't find any commentary on it in the media so I wasn't sure. I know they are pretty strict about somethings. (More so than the US)

Offline Sure

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2010, 02:39:00 PM »
He is being charged with:
Unlawful Coercion
Sexual Molestation
Deliberate Molestation
Rape or Unlawful Coercion (they're being somewhat unclear)

The first three are from one woman, the fourth from a second one. The first woman accuses him of not using a condom (again, apparently a crime if she wants him to) and pinning her. Her case ultimately comes down to whether at one point consensual sex turned into non-consensual sex. The second claims he had sex with her while she was sleeping, therefore it was non-consensual. They're being very tight-lipped with what happened beyond that, though, claiming that telling their story would advantage Assange.

He faces a sentence of four years.

Offline mystictiger

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2010, 02:53:25 PM »
This is the second round of indictments in relation to these allegations. The first were made by the prosecutor in the city in which the incidents took place, and were subsequently dropped. This second round are from a different city (Gothenburg, I believe, rather than Stockholm. I could be wrong on which exact city).

The whole wikileaks scandal is explained by this cartoon.

Offline Kate

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 09:54:23 AM »
the charge of rape to is to place him in a state where his own ability to gain support for his actions is logistically impeded.

"While we gather support against him - how can we get comparitively more ? - well aint easy to coordinate a support group on his own while his occupied with managing X now is it ... ? But he didnt do X ? Well no - but being accused of it still buys us time when we most need it. .. Hmm so um ... how can we get him accused of X ? Just leave that to me .... let me make a few calls."

Online Dashenka

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2011, 08:14:44 AM »
First of all I want to say something about how he got famous in the first place. WikiLeaks.

I don't understand the whole hype around this man. He has done nothing wrong as he didn't leak the documents himself. I personally see no need at all to read or post all these documents but doing it cannot be illegal in any democratic country. I'm quite surprised the display of 'power' the US is showing to every country to exchange Assange to the US, since in my believe, freedom of speech is held quite highly in that country.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't smart to publish all the documents and he should have thought about the consequences for international relationships before he published it but stupidity or ignorance is not a crime.

Now to the point of the rape charge. I personally hold Sweden in high regard when it comes to justice and human rights. If not the highest. If he is innocent as he claims to be, I wouldn't fear going there on trial or being exchanged. In my opinion Sweden is one of the safest places for this man right now, IF he is innocent, which seeing how he doesn't want to go to the hearing about it, I very much doubt.

If he is guilty of the charges in Sweden he should be put to prison in Sweden and not be exchanged to the US, just because they want him as well. He committed no crimes in the US and he did commit a crime in Sweden. Let for once, justice prevail over politics...

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2011, 11:07:35 AM »
First of all I want to say something about how he got famous in the first place. WikiLeaks.

I don't understand the whole hype around this man. He has done nothing wrong as he didn't leak the documents himself. I personally see no need at all to read or post all these documents but doing it cannot be illegal in any democratic country. I'm quite surprised the display of 'power' the US is showing to every country to exchange Assange to the US, since in my believe, freedom of speech is held quite highly in that country.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't smart to publish all the documents and he should have thought about the consequences for international relationships before he published it but stupidity or ignorance is not a crime.

Now to the point of the rape charge. I personally hold Sweden in high regard when it comes to justice and human rights. If not the highest. If he is innocent as he claims to be, I wouldn't fear going there on trial or being exchanged. In my opinion Sweden is one of the safest places for this man right now, IF he is innocent, which seeing how he doesn't want to go to the hearing about it, I very much doubt.

If he is guilty of the charges in Sweden he should be put to prison in Sweden and not be exchanged to the US, just because they want him as well. He committed no crimes in the US and he did commit a crime in Sweden. Let for once, justice prevail over politics...

Okay..

Legally, for him at least, you are correct. Aside from Idiots like Senator Liberman, who is trying to backdoor the charges in a way that if foolish if not actually stupid/illegaly, there is no legal precedent for bringing Assange to the US for charges. He's a tool, and strikes me a little bit like an egomaniac from the interviews I've seen/read but we got a nice domestic crop of them that we don't need to add to.

I figured the same about the rape charges. He has a lot less chance of extradition in Sweden than the UK. He has a LOT of supporters both here in the US and in the EU, so he's not going to be hurting for funds for his defense. The only reason I could see him fighting to stay out of Sweden in this case is that there is some 'smoke' to this fire. I am NOT saying he did or didn't rape these women but perhaps his defense has warned him about the way the case is set up.

Regardless, there is no legal view point for the Swedes to give him to the US if he is found quilty. Of course the snarky inner cynic in me finds it ironic that he'd be given residence in Sweden if he loses, which he tried to get once before but wasn't granted asylum with them.

Online VekseidTopic starter

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2011, 11:26:55 AM »
Yeah, I'm sortof wondering where the fears of extradition are coming from. If they're not pressuring the UK for it how are they going to pressure Sweden?

Sweden would have a geek riot. Or something.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Julian Assange turns himself in
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2011, 12:21:59 PM »
Yeah, I'm sortof wondering where the fears of extradition are coming from. If they're not pressuring the UK for it how are they going to pressure Sweden?

Sweden would have a geek riot. Or something.

At a guess? I'd say the media and paranoid faction.

Honestly, even if Joe Lieberman got that nut job law passed Assange is still untouchable. He would have to have been in the US, or associated territories, for the exchange between him and the soldier that gave him the leaks. Till then, he's in the clear.

The VERY WORSE the US can do to him legally at this point is have the State Department put him down as Persona Non Grata and deny him entry into the US. (Which I think has been done)

Anything else at this point is rumor mongering, media hype and such.

He's in the clear as long as he stays off US soil and doesn't do anything that can merit action. Which, short of an actual act of terrorism, I can't imagine him doing.