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Author Topic: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person  (Read 6194 times)

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Offline Spookie MonsterTopic starter

Given the nature of Elliquiy, I suspect that some of you out there will judge this interesting...

Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person

A British expat who claims to have no gender is thought to have become the first person to be officially recognised as neither male or female.

Enjoy!

Spel


Don't you?

Offline Theik

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 09:43:29 AM »
The decision to allow Norrie to register as genderless was later reversed. The government ruled that a legal document couldn't have 'sex not specified' on it and now they still need to pick a gender for themselves.

Offline Wolfy

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 08:20:07 PM »
So...does this mean IT (I guess we can call him/her an IT, right? O_o I mean..I dunno if it would be politically correct or whatever..) doesn't have either genitalia anymore?

Offline Leo

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 08:30:36 PM »
A genderless human would have the most difficult life possible. No sex to relieve you of stress... that's just horrible.

Offline Wolfy

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2010, 01:58:36 AM »
Seriously, I don't know what to call him/her...O-o...saying "It" sounds condescending or de-humanizing...but..is there any other way to refer to a genderless person? (Well, I don't mean in a De-humanizing way or anything like that, I mean by calling them "It" rather than by a gender moniker..o-o.)

Offline Leo

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2010, 02:16:19 AM »
It seems to be the only option, unless a word is invented for genderless individuals to be referred to.

Offline Stan'

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Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2010, 10:03:47 AM »
What bathroom does "it" use?

Offline Wolfy

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2010, 10:08:06 AM »
What bathroom does "it" use?

Any bathroom "it" wants?

Offline Stan'

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Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2010, 10:11:41 AM »
A female bathroom is for females only.  And the same goes for the guy's.

Offline Wolfy

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2010, 10:14:20 AM »
Not really. That's just what our society has deemed 'normal'.

It's just a bathroom. Who cares which one 'it' goes into? He/she lived as both sexes, so 'it' obviously went into both bathrooms before.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2010, 10:15:29 AM »
There are 'family restrooms' in many places these days. It helps with those 'single father with preschool daughter, single mother with preschool son' awkward moments, as well as caretakers who are assisting someone of the opposite gender.  The sign on front shows both the male and female universal symbols with a child between them, and a handicapped symbol:



More about them: http://www.americanrestroom.org/family/index.htm  (I notice that the article specifically references the transgendered community.  Yay!)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 10:17:21 AM by Oniya »

Offline Stan'

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Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2010, 10:16:41 AM »
So what's the symbol for "it" ?

Offline Leo

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2010, 10:18:18 AM »


When was this invented? I want to do the maths and find out how long it took humanity to come up with the simplest solution possible since the invention of toilets... and that goes back before Roman rule or something...

Offline Oniya

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Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2010, 10:24:02 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, Roman toilets were gender-free...  ;D

But actually, they were cropping up well before I had the little Oni - and she's entering 4th grade now.  (I never had to use one, but when you've got a little one, bathrooms are high on your radar.)

Correction on that - it looks like they started really hyping them in 2003.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 10:27:12 AM by Oniya »

Offline Leo

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2010, 10:29:21 AM »
it looks like they started really hyping them in 2003.

Well, in any case, that's at least about 1500 years until we managed to come up with family restrooms... Damn, we're so smart. :D

Offline MsCuddly

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 04:51:09 PM »
The decision to allow Norrie to register as genderless was later reversed. The government ruled that a legal document couldn't have 'sex not specified' on it and now they still need to pick a gender for themselves.
That sure does suck. If he/she/it physically has no gender then why can't he/she/it legally have one too.

Offline Wolfy

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2010, 06:37:05 AM »
So what's the symbol for "it" ?

I'd assume it would just be a Circle. O_o

Offline Leo

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2010, 08:30:12 AM »
I'd assume it would just be a Circle. O_o

Some people might consider that sexist... but... the idea of being sexist toward a genderless person half defeats itself. I mean, the meaning of the term sexist would require some modification.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2010, 09:05:18 PM »
So...does this mean IT (I guess we can call him/her an IT, right? O_o I mean..I dunno if it would be politically correct or whatever..) doesn't have either genitalia anymore?

I'm not sure "it" is appropriate. English does not have gender neutral pronouns which causes a problem. I know an individual that is genderqueer. This person does not conform to male or female. This individual prefers the gender neutral pronouns of ze (in place of he/she) and hir (in place of him/her). It's not a question of changing perceptions or philosophies, but it is more about accepting an individual.

I'd assume it would just be a Circle. O_o

This is often the accepted symbol for someone that is transgender:



However, I'm not sure that is the initial question. There are ample unisex/family bathrooms in the world.

Some people might consider that sexist... but... the idea of being sexist toward a genderless person half defeats itself. I mean, the meaning of the term sexist would require some modification.

I can kind of see your point. I think that it probably could still be considered sexist.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2010, 09:17:39 PM »
This is often the accepted symbol for someone that is transgender

I think that the confusion is that this person is specifically without gender.  I could be wrong, but trans-gender still implies that one has a gender, and it isn't the one that the individual was born with.  Or does the absence of gender become a gender in itself, which is then different from the gender at birth?  *ponders*

I do agree that using the pronoun that any individual prefers is the most polite thing to do.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2010, 09:27:04 PM »
I think that the confusion is that this person is specifically without gender.  I could be wrong, but trans-gender still implies that one has a gender, and it isn't the one that the individual was born with.  Or does the absence of gender become a gender in itself, which is then different from the gender at birth?  *ponders*

The individual I mentioned above uses the term transgender and genderqueer. Transgender seems to be an overarching category that as you say does include people that are male to female or female to male...but it also includes individuals that have non-traditional gender expressions such as cross-dressers...who are not changing their biological sex...other examples may include effeminate men or very masculine women. They aren't transforming their physical body, but do not conform to the biological sex to which they were designated at birth.

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2010, 09:40:42 PM »
The individual I mentioned above uses the term transgender and genderqueer. Transgender seems to be an overarching category that as you say does include people that are male to female or female to male...but it also includes individuals that have non-traditional gender expressions such as cross-dressers...who are not changing their biological sex...other examples may include effeminate men or very masculine women. They aren't transforming their physical body, but do not conform to the biological sex to which they were designated at birth.

Well said. I use the transgender label myself to indicate that my gender identity is neither male nor female (nor even particularly a combination of the two). It is important to realize that the trans prefix can also mean "across from" or beyond" gender.

I also think a bit of confusion is arising in this thread due to the conflation of physical sex and gender. As alxnjsh pointed out, a number of transgender individuals are okay with their biological sex, and the two terms should not be seen as synonymous.

Offline Leo

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2010, 10:42:28 AM »
I have a scientific inquiry :

Is the process (or condition) of an individual acting/feeling unlike their biological birth sex, a hormonal one or a psychological one? Or is it a combination of the two? Or can it be any of the three (or perhaps something entirely different that I have not considered, like social impact on the individual), changing from one individual to another?

I've never investigated studies regarding this matter and find myself curious right now.

Offline LIAR

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2010, 11:32:58 PM »
To be honest, I find the whole thought of a 'genderless' person to be a bit silly.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2010, 11:46:05 AM »
I have a scientific inquiry :

Is the process (or condition) of an individual acting/feeling unlike their biological birth sex, a hormonal one or a psychological one? Or is it a combination of the two? Or can it be any of the three (or perhaps something entirely different that I have not considered, like social impact on the individual), changing from one individual to another?

I've never investigated studies regarding this matter and find myself curious right now.

An answer from the American Psychological Association:

Quote
There is no one generally accepted explanation for why some people are transgender. The diversity of transgender expression argues against any simple or unitary explanation. Many experts believe that biological factors such as genetic influences and prenatal hormone levels, early experiences in a personís family of origin, and other social influences can all contribute to the development of transgender behaviors and identities.
Source: http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx

To be honest, I find the whole thought of a 'genderless' person to be a bit silly.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, at least in the U.S. However, when needed it should be pointed out that comments can be hurtful and slanderous. This type of comment is quite offensive to someone that is living a life that does not conform to a gender. We have many such individuals that are part of E.