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Author Topic: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.  (Read 4643 times)

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Offline SukadaTopic starter

10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« on: April 02, 2010, 05:39:39 AM »
Ok..Indiana...state I live in, in the town of Martinsville. I just saw a news report of something that happened this past monday, march 29th, Police officers tasered a 10 year old 94 pound child who was misbehaving in daycare. He is a 94 pound boy who could have been easily restrained by the two adult police officers, but instead one man slapped him while the other used a taser gun on him...

Full report Here.

What do you think of this...

My opinion, the officers shouldn't have only been suspended, they should have been fired, and charges pressed against them for child abuse and endangerment of a minor, along with any other charge that would fit.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 07:30:54 AM by Sukada »

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Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2010, 08:20:17 AM »
Quote
The city's mayor says he expects more disciplinary action to be leveled against the officers at a city meeting next week.

If I were in that city, I would be showing up at that meeting to make sure of that.

Offline Xenophile

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2010, 09:45:31 AM »
A unarmed child getting tazed?

There is no excuse or explanation for this other then gross incompetence.

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Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2010, 10:50:27 AM »
That is just absolutely shameful.

I'd be interested in seeing the video cam footage.

Offline Jude

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 05:13:18 PM »
I don't think this is a big deal unless the taser could've/did do serious damage.  I know electrical shocks can be very traumatic to a developing brain, so it's entirely possible that their actions caused this child serious harm.  If it is the case then I believe the officers in question should be sued for what they did if they were aware of the potential danger and damage that the weapons were likely to cause.  If they were unaware of the consequences of their actions and policy did not strictly prohibit them from doing it, then I don't think they should be held liable, in which case the Police Department should be sued instead of them for not properly training and informing their officers about the weaponry which they're giving to subdue criminals and juvenile delinquents.

I don't agree with the attitude of blaming the police officers immediately however.  I figure that if things escalated to the point that the police had to be called to restrain a ten year old boy, the kid was acting dangerous to begin with and it seems things got even worse when they arrived.  He was physically assaulting them from the sound of things, cursing, and resisting their attempts at subduing him, its only natural to try and use whatever methods are available to you at that point to get your job done, and if you're not properly informed of the damage that a taser could cause, I'm not surprised that they'd make that mistake.

Obviously I have a great deal of sympathy for the child, but it sounds like he already has a host of issues if he was behaving poorly enough to have the police called on him, and yet that did not mellow him out.  Hopefully there was no permanent damage done, but I'm not really surprised that the incident got out of control in this way, because I'm not sure how a police officer could, to begin with, handle a child at that age that's behaving like an unruly adult.

Offline SukadaTopic starter

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2010, 05:55:13 PM »
It would have been quite simple jude, one of the police men was a captain, a veteran of 16 years and he should have know better. Both med outweighed the boy by at 100 to 150 pounds, all it would have taken was simplying grabbing the boy and restraining him in a bear hug or something similar until he calmed down.

I saw the full news report on TV andthe report stated that the child had no weapon of any sort, and the worst he was doing was throwing an exaggerated temper tantrum. Kicking, screaming, fighting, it is something all 10 year olds do, but instead of taking a 50,000 volt, .04 amp taser to a 94 pound child. And doing so has a very high risk to trigger heart attacks in youngsters.

The 16 year veteran should have known better than to think he needed to go this far to take down someone less than half his weight and size.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 06:04:36 PM by Sukada »

Offline Torch

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Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2010, 06:03:09 PM »
It would have been quite simple jude, one of the police men was a captain, a veteran of 16 years and he should have know better. Both med outweighed the boy by at 100 to 150 pounds, all it would have taken was simplying grabbing the boy and restraining him in a bear hug or something similar until he calmed down.

I saw the full news report on TV andthe report stated that the child had no weapon of any sort, and the worst he was doing was throwing an exaggerated temper tantrum. Kicking, screaming, fighting, it is something all 10 year olds do, but instead of taking a 50,00 volt, .04 amp taser to a 94 pound child. And doing so has a very high risk to trigger heart attacks in youngsters.

The 16 year veteran should have known better than to think he needed to go this far to take down someone less than half his weight and size.

Uh, no...it most certainly is not behavior that all ten year olds engage in. Toddlers, perhaps. Pre-teens? No.

I'm not excusing any actions by the officers, simply clearing up that misstatement.

Offline Xenophile

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2010, 06:28:05 PM »
Teenagers with ADHD throw tantrums.

I'm not saying that this 10 year old has any mental disabilities, but damn, we can't judge everyone as if everyone would behave exactly the same at every situation.

Just sayin'.

Offline Torch

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Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2010, 08:10:32 PM »
Teenagers with ADHD throw tantrums.

I'm not saying that this 10 year old has any mental disabilities, but damn, we can't judge everyone as if everyone would behave exactly the same at every situation.

Just sayin'.

Right. Not all 10 year olds throw tantrums. In fact, most don't.

And honestly, if this kid weighed almost a hundred pounds, that's the size of a small adult. I have a fifteen year old, and she hovers around the hundred pound mark. Just to put things into perspective from the officers' point of view.

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Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2010, 08:21:17 PM »
Okay - I weigh a hundred pounds.  Now, on a ten-year-old's frame, that's going to be a bit more substantial, but I know that a single, moderately-in-shape man can wrestle me to the floor with only a moderate amount of difficulty.  It's not going to take a taser to restrain me if the person has a clue about hand-to-hand.

Offline Xenophile

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2010, 08:27:48 PM »
If two men can subdue a 10 year old boy, which isn't in question, a tazer is wholly unnecessary. If the child does not calm down, then he could just be cuffed and carried off to the paddy wagon. Restrain him. I am still having a hard time believing that a 10 year old child could get the same treatment as grown person in a episode from Cops!

Offline Jude

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2010, 09:26:58 PM »
According to the manufacturers of tasers, anyone weighing 60 lbs or over is safe to taser... i.e. if he weighed 100 pounds it wasn't anymore dangerous than zapping an adult.  I couldn't find any other resources on the dangers of using them on children, but I did find a lot of anti-taser websites which give false information about things people have said about tasers.  The UN said some uses of tasers constitute torture then the anti-taser websites said that the use of Tasers constitutes torture; two very different things, so if you did only a surface scanning when doing your research on the subject you may want to take another look.

As far as the ADHD people throwing tantrums goes, I have ADHD and never threw tantrums past the age of like, 6.  So if you're saying that everyone with ADHD throws Tantrums, that's not correct.  Yet I realize it could still be true that most people with ADHD throws tantrums, yet the DSM - IV (used to diagnose people by American Psychologists) does not recognize the throwing of tantrums as a symptom of ADHD.  I believe that people with ADHD might be more prone to them given the impulsiveness characterized by ADHD, but unless you have any evidence to back up the link between them, I'm not sure that's an accurate comparison.  In fact, I don't know of any widespread mental illnesses that regularly result in tantrums (and if they did you'd probably need a teacher educated to handle it).

This wasn't a temper tantrum anyway, someone physically attacking another person is different from yelling and stomping.  He was kicking people.

I'm wondering why you think two grown men tackling a kid couldn't potentially hurt him either.  There's a reason policemen started carrying tasers, and it's because that's dangerous too.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2010, 09:42:45 PM »
I have to go with the police on this one.  At first I was a bit horrified, but considering the other options there wasnít a lot to do.  If the police are called into to wrangle a ten year old then something must be going on beyond simple tantrum.  Physically wrestling or restraining him could have injured the child more as that could lead to broken bones, fall injuries, bruising, etc.  Considering how much the police get flack for handcuffing children of late, its not reasonable to then say they could do this.  The taser is appropriate for his weight but I would be concerned about his age.  Not sure what heart situations could be going on there, but in an adult with a heart condition there still would be no question of the taser.


The child was apparently attacking them.  The officers did use physical force it seems but that did not help the situation.  So Iím not certain what people would have wanted them to do in that situation. 

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Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2010, 10:01:32 PM »
I did a little looking, and found the following (Google linked me directly to the document, which is somewhere in the 'familycareservices.org' site) :

Quote
PASSIVE PHYSICAL RESTRAINT TRAINING

HOW TO RESTRAIN A CHILD


1.   Pay close attention to safety issues at all times.

2.   Insure that the child can breathe and is free of pain at all times.

3.   Have at least two people present to restrain.  If at least two people are not available, use self-defense techniques and call for assistance.

4.   Have one helper on either side of the child.

5.   Control the arms first by holding the childís arms out to his/her sides.

6.   If the child continues to struggle, kick, or attack in any other way, lower the child to the floor on his/her stomach.

7.   Cross the childís arms behind his/her back and hold them there while insuring the child can breathe comfortably.

8.   Cross the childís legs and hold them to the floor.

9.   If the restraint is needed for more than five minutes, call for appropriate assistance (FCS emergency worker, police, or ambulance).

10.   Complete a report as described in the Restraint Policy.

Offline BraveEarth

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2010, 10:06:53 PM »
Speaking as someone who witnessed many a restrain and many over acting children and young adults, I have to say that what the police officers did was stupid and should cost them. I've seen people smaller than me restrain young kids like that it's doable and not nearly as potenially harmful.

Offline Jude

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2010, 10:23:19 PM »
I don't think watching people be restrained many times qualifies you as an expert in tasers enough to make that judgmental call from read a couple of sentences.

Offline Xenophile

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2010, 10:33:03 PM »
I don't think watching people be restrained many times qualifies you as an expert in tasers enough to make that judgmental call from read a couple of sentences.

You can think as much as you want. That's what we're all doing in here, making half-arsed assumptions with Google and personal experience as our main source provider.

But please step down with the attitude, alright? Nobody wants personal accusations in here.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2010, 10:45:48 PM »
I did a little looking, and found the following (Google linked me directly to the document, which is somewhere in the 'familycareservices.org' site) :

Sounds like the people who called the police already tried restraining the child, and it didn't work, then. >>; That's only a guess, though.

Offline Jude

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2010, 11:36:12 PM »
You can think as much as you want.
You seem a bit aggressive, I didn't mean to be antagonistic or insulting, I was simply making what I thought were logical points about the situation.  I didn't mean to offend you.
That's what we're all doing in here, making half-arsed assumptions with Google and personal experience as our main source provider.
I read some news articles, went to the manufacturer's website, and did a bit of research about the dangers of using a taser.  So in a sense, you're right, I was using a search engine to find that information, but they were from credible sources and I checked a variety of locales for their perspective, and I got some facts out of it.  The facts are simple, the device is safe to use on people 60 lbs and over according to the people who manufacture them and the child was over 100 lbs.  You can say that you don't trust the people who make them, and if you have a good reason to that might even be a compelling point, but it's not logical to say that from your personal experiencing of watching many people tackled and restrained you understand that it's a better solution than tasering, unless you know about tasering and/or you were the one doing the tackling (and probably trained on it).  On top of that, there's a real lack of details to really make that judgment to begin with.  I've been objecting to the baseless knee-jerk reaction many people have displayed against the police without any real facts.
But please step down with the attitude, alright? Nobody wants personal accusations in here.
I don't understand what personal attacks I've made, if you could point them out to me in a PM I'd gladly edit my previous posts to be less offensive, that certainly wasn't my intention.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 11:37:20 PM by Jude »

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Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2010, 01:44:23 AM »
The child was slightly under 100 pounds, according to every article I could find on the incident.  He was still over 60 pounds, which meets with the manufacturer's weight guideline, but it seems that the tasing was used before any other attempt by the officers to physically restrain the boy.  It's the rush to tasing that disturbs me and apparently most of the other people who are speaking out against the police response.  Okay, one adult female was having difficulty restraining the kid.  The source I cited earlier even stated that two people should be used for a restraint attempt - otherwise self-defense was advised, along with a call for assistance. 

Offline LIAR

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2010, 01:57:13 AM »
I know this seems harsh, but I'm all for tasing out of control children. I am not for slapping them, however. I know; strange. But trying to restrain a child is difficult to do without injuring either yourself or them in the process when they're out of control.

Offline Sabby

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2010, 03:03:29 AM »
I got half way through this topic and didn't bother to read much further... you guys are splitting hairs, and then splitting those hairs, and what should be a very simple matter is getting overly complicated.

Two police, and one of them a veteran, tazered a child, when it was not called for. However you try and lay this out, it was a serious lapse of judgement, and I'd wanna see this as a test case to tightening up the police forces over-reliance on tazers.

He was 10 ffs. 10! I don't care if he was brandishing a sharpened crayon, theres no excuse for this. I could have restrained him, and I've got a bruised rib at the moment.

Offline Kip

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2010, 03:24:44 AM »
Please take a bit of a step back and focus on the issues raised.
It's obviously a situation that is concerning on a number of levels and I haven't done my own personal research on Tasers, the effect of them and police policy in the area so I'm not going to weigh in... I'd just like to see the debate focused on the article and situation rather than at other members using 'You... this' and 'You.... that'.

Offline Noelle

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2010, 03:25:54 AM »
Instead of going on pure emotions, let's be reasonable about this.
These police officers probably didn't want to tazer the kid. The dialogue leading up to the decision probably didn't sound like, "Eh, I'm too lazy to wrestle this kid", "Yeah, me too, wanna taze him?" "Yeah, okay."
Nobody here knows the exact situation, but common sense seems to dictate that police officers in this situation were probably trying to make the best decision possible. Besides, if their parents felt the need to call in the POLICE to restrain their child, I would guess there is a LOT more going on than what was reported -- Police officers aren't paid to wrestle and fuck around, they're not paid to be parents, they're paid to protect people. Yes, it seems a ten-year-old shouldn't be much of an issue, but let's use some logic -- if the kid's parents felt the need to call police who in turn felt the need the act...I highly doubt this was an ordinary istuation.

Furthermore, insinuating that you could do a better job is basically boiling it down to, "I know better than a trained cop with more experience than me". I get the same attitude at work when people think things are easier than they look, I've done art commissions for people who think they know what I'm doing better than I do, and frankly, in about 98% of the cases...they don't.

Maybe it was a mistake, maybe not -- there's much more to the situation than any of us are aware of though. Before you cry for these guys to be strung up and fired or whatever potentially unnecessary aftermath you find appropriate, consider that you may not have had a better solution if you were standing in their shoes -- unless, of course, you are a veteran on the police force.



edit: also: "don't taze me bro".
If laughing at that quote in this situation makes me wrong, then I don't want to be right.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 03:27:58 AM by Noelle »

Offline SukadaTopic starter

Re: 10 Year Old Tasered in Martinsville, Indiana.
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2010, 10:53:10 AM »
Thank you Kip for mentioning that. I didn't mean for this to turn into a fight between members about who is right and who is wrong, I just wanted to hear everyone's opinions on the topic and have a friendly debate. Obviously not everyone who chimes in will agree with each other, but two or three members teaming up to attack everyone else is unneeded. I live in this state, I know the police policy and what happened was way out of line with the officers. If you feel otherwise that is fine, but please be respectful to others opinions instead of turning this personal with each other.

Let me clarify something else. The two officers present, out weighed the child by 100 to 150 pounds each, one of the two was a captain and veteran of 16 years, the other was a 2 year rookie. It hasn't been stated which slapped the child knocking him to the floor and which tasered him. But whoever it was, In my opinion was wrong. If the child was already on the floor from being slapped, it shouldn't have been necessary to taser him.

You can agree or disagree with this if you like, but keep it respectful. If it gets out of hand again attacking each other i will lock the topic and end the debate. I don't want a topic I started for an intellectual purpose to cause strife and massive problems between members. So please keep it respectful so I don't have to lock it.

Thank you ~Sukada