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Author Topic: It just gets weirder and more draconian  (Read 4698 times)

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Online National AcrobatTopic starter

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It just gets weirder and more draconian
« on: May 18, 2006, 10:30:47 AM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/17/national/main1625059.shtml

A town in Missouri has decided that they know what constitutes a family, and is attempting to change the zoning laws for residents in order to enforce that. Current residents could be evicted if they do not meet the definition of 'family' as the town sees it.

Unbelievable.

Offline alahendra

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2006, 10:37:53 AM »
Under that law, three  people couldn't live together as roommates in order to save on rent!  :o

Offline Swedish Steel

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2006, 10:41:18 AM »
No...because being roommates are just an excuse, they are all after filthy deviant sex, every last one of them!
Seriously, your contry never stop amazing me, I should be used to it by now but gosh darn it, you did it again. :)

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2006, 10:44:37 AM »
Under that law, three  people couldn't live together as roommates in order to save on rent!  :o

I guess there isn't a college nearby then...

Seriously, this is just nuts. I mean it's a fundamental right to life, liberty and happiness that you can choose who to live with, and whether you want to get married or not.

Offline alahendra

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2006, 10:59:01 AM »
Well, my comment was half in jest, but on a more serious note, besides the implications with regard to civil liberties, I know plenty of people who aren't in college who live together as roommates because their economic situations require it.  I wonder how many people like that would be hurt by this (not to mention those who are just trying to live their lives in peace and not bother anyone).  This is just so bizarre and outrageous, I still can't wrap my mind around it.


Swedish--Living in the US, I don't think anything can surprise me anymore, and yet, here's an example of something that did.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2006, 11:02:04 AM by alahendra »

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2006, 11:00:56 AM »
Yeah, I assumed it was partly in jest. I was just commenting that if there was a college in the vicinity this type of legislation and ordinance wouldn't even have a snoball's chance in hell of making it past a committee to get a vote.

I happen to be a person that at one time had roomates for the very reasons you describe, and it really annoys me that someone would dictate to me that wasn't acceptable.

Offline alahendra

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2006, 11:15:54 AM »
Well, let's see, I am getting to move in with my fiance, but right now I (bisexual female) live with two roommates: 1 straight male, and 1 gay.  They'd probably not only want to evict us but have us shot too! 

What I wonder though, (and I'm no expert on law type stuff)  is how could this possibly be constitutional?  It seems to me that if they actually try to enforce this thing, there will be legal action in no time.

Offline Hunter

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2006, 11:16:55 AM »
It's by the people, so don't expect the people to be what you might think as rational.  After all, they think you're nuts too.   ;)

Offline Elvi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2006, 01:37:09 PM »
Well apart from this being ludicrous, I tell you my relationship with Strangely is far more stable that my marriage ever was, I am a little confused.
Are they saying that these people are to be evicted from their town?
(And not the equivalent of our 'council houses', sort of state owned housing I suppose it would be there?)

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2006, 01:47:10 PM »
I think if it were state-owned housing, that would have been specifically stated in the article.  It sounds to me like they want to make it illegal for people to live together like that within the boundaries of the town itself.  Which gets into another aspect of the issue--personal property rights.  I just don't see how this can stand.

And Hunter, if anyone called me nuts,  I'd have to agree. :p

Offline Lyria

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2006, 01:48:36 PM »
From what I understand it's all private housing, but the zoning has defined that only occupants meeting a certain definition of 'family' are allowed to live there. The current family in question that may be evicted moved into the area after the zoning ordinance was already in place. I'm not saying I agree with the zoning, I don't, but the family moved into an area that was already defined in this way. Given that, they can be cited for breaking the zoning laws and be forced to move from what I understand.

And fortunately this town is an exception, not a rule. That's why it's in the news. Most of us Americans in my experience are not closed minded and bigoted like this. Yes, they are out there, though. The things that get in the media are the extereme, things we are shocked at ourselves. Something like this would never fly in my state.

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2006, 02:02:55 PM »
From what I understand it's all private housing, but the zoning has defined that only occupants meeting a certain definition of 'family' are allowed to live there. The current family in question that may be evicted moved into the area after the zoning ordinance was already in place. I'm not saying I agree with the zoning, I don't, but the family moved into an area that was already defined in this way. Given that, they can be cited for breaking the zoning laws and be forced to move from what I understand.

And fortunately this town is an exception, not a rule. That's why it's in the news. Most of us Americans in my experience are not closed minded and bigoted like this. Yes, they are out there, though. The things that get in the media are the extereme, things we are shocked at ourselves. Something like this would never fly in my state.

That's how I read it also. The zoning was in place before they moved to the town.

Also, even thought I don't agree with it, I actually find it repugnant, the town council states that all new potential occupants of the town are told about the requirements for living it the town. In other words, the article states that these folks tried to get the ordinance changed, because they moved to the town, and failed.

I think something like this can be challenged in court, and potentially overturned.

Were this a neighborhood association however, that would be different.

Offline Elvi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2006, 02:10:33 PM »
*blinks*

So I'm sitting in my house in 'somewhere town', I own the house and suddenly someone can come along and say "you can't live in your own property any more because you're not married to the man you've lived with for twenty years and you have two children?"

Am I actually reading this right?

Offline Moondazed

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2006, 02:13:05 PM »
I read in a book (I think it was Collapse by Jared Diamond, but I can't remember for sure), that originally when America was settled people purposely segregated themselves and the mentality about it was quite a bit different from what it is now.  Not that I think segregation is right by any stretch, but it's an interesting thing to consider.  It's funny, the older I get the more I understand that kind of thinking... especially as they clear cut the 11 acres across our little dirt road to develop it *sigh*

Offline Lyria

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2006, 02:14:54 PM »
*blinks*

So I'm sitting in my house in 'somewhere town', I own the house and suddenly someone can come along and say "you can't live in your own property any more because you're not married to the man you've lived with for twenty years and you have two children?"

Am I actually reading this right?


Not really. You would want to move to 'somewhere town', and they would tell you your family doesn't fit their zoning requirements. You move there anyway, and then get mad when they want to remove you. Granted they shouldn't have such zoning requirements in place to beging with.... but they were there already.

Offline alahendra

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2006, 02:18:34 PM »
What I wonder is...how long has that ordinance been in place, and how would it affect people who lived there before it came into existance?  Are they 'grandfathered in'?

Offline Elvi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2006, 02:25:02 PM »
Hmmmmmm.........

OK, we live in a rented house, so we had to negotiate having our dog there when the lease said no animals and also asked if we could have rats when we were asked to foster some.
Which means that we abide by the lease that we have.

So in one way I would say that if you can't live within that ruling and thats the way it's done in that town, then don't move there.
However, if they have moved boundries or just brought this ruling in, then I would be fighting them every step of the way.

Mind you, such an arbitory type rule smells nasty to me whichever way you look at it, just one step up from no muslims/blacks/people with odd eye colours for me.....

Offline Lyria

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2006, 02:37:41 PM »
I agree, the rule is closed minded and bigoted, but, it was in place prior to their moving there. I think it needs to be changed, but the rule was there and should be abided by until it is changed through proper means.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2006, 02:38:48 PM »
I couldn't believe the sheer quantity of ordinances in the little town my parent's lived in for a few years.  They had horses and there were three conflicting ordinances about having them, from which the code enforcement officer chose the one that they were violating.  My mom researched the ordinances and it was downright scary, let me tell you.  The majority went unenforced, but it only takes one person knowing it's there to make it enforcable and cost the person violating it a damned fortune in court costs.

Offline Celestial Goblin

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2006, 02:56:33 PM »
If Americans won't remember they were supposed to be living in a free country, i don't know what will happen. Of course it's just some states, but they're going right into third-world standarts.
I can't believe in such things.

Offline Lyria

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2006, 03:01:58 PM »
Yeah, there are bad things like that, but it's not all that way. It's just what makes it into the media. There are a lot of wonderful things here in America, and the majority will move to stand behind that family if need arises.

I know that America's reputation is partly deserved, but the many wonderful people here are getting short-changed and not given the benefit of the doubt.

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2006, 03:02:43 PM »
What scares me is people's lethargy regarding all of the laws that are passed, seeming to only take an interest if it affects them personally.  Although it is nearly impossible to keep track of all of the laws and ordinances that are passed unless that's all that one does!

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2006, 03:04:06 PM »
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/special/srlinks.nsf/0/50985687E04F7F4786257139007F9EA5?OpenDocument

Here's another link that examines the history a bit deeper.

It seems to go back to 1977 at least, maybe further, and apparently isn't the only place.

It seems as if the original intent was to keep properties from becoming giant flop-houses and having more than an ideal amount of people living in them.

If you read that closely.

Offline Elvi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2006, 03:08:55 PM »
*nods*
An old law twisted by some who are 'disgusted' by others life styles......not surprising.

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2006, 03:17:59 PM »
*nods*
An old law twisted by some who are 'disgusted' by others life styles......not surprising.

Not uncommon in parts of the U.S.

They won't repeal the laws here in Virginia against oral and anal sex, for instance, because they can be used against people for those very reasons.

They rarely are enforced, unless someone has a grudge or wants to smear someone publicly.