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Author Topic: It just gets weirder and more draconian  (Read 4700 times)

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Offline Celestial Goblin

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2006, 03:18:59 PM »
It really seems that USA is in for changes. It's a country of contrasts. Some of most wonderful people i know, personally or not, are from there.
I really hope that common sense will prevail, or at worse, that the 'religious' folks will boil in their own sauce.

Offline Elvi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2006, 03:25:47 PM »
Not uncommon in parts of the U.S.

They won't repeal the laws here in Virginia against oral and anal sex, for instance, because they can be used against people for those very reasons.

They rarely are enforced, unless someone has a grudge or wants to smear someone publicly.

A very old chestnut really, homosexuality is not illegal, but having anal sex or holding hands in public is.

Fortunately we have been there and done that in this country, at least the law is a damned sight less bigotted than it used to be.

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2006, 03:37:47 PM »
Yeah but I can guarantee you that just about everyone breaks the law as far as Oral Sex is concerned here in Virginia. Try asking a politician here if they've broken that law.

We had a radio host here a couple of years ago, a conservative named Michael Graham who actually had a show about the blue laws, and had several politicians call in, and he tried to get some answers out of them about that, and it was pretty funny hearing them hem and haw.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2006, 03:40:10 PM »
If more people in the rural town I live in in central Virginia were breaking that law I think they'd be a lot happier *giggle* 

*grumbling*  Damned religious zealots...

Offline Elvi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2006, 03:40:36 PM »
Of course they have and I hazard a guess that anal sex isn't beyond them either, it is after all, not just a homosexual practice.

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2006, 03:49:49 PM »
If more people in the rural town I live in in central Virginia were breaking that law I think they'd be a lot happier *giggle* 

*grumbling*  Damned religious zealots...

Hehe, I agree. I think if more people would just enjoy it, everyone would be a hell of a lot happier.

 8)

Offline Hunter

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2006, 03:52:23 PM »
*bats eyelashes*  I enjoy oral sex, thank you very much.   :P

Offline Elvi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2006, 03:56:02 PM »
Well get out on the streets and demonstrate!

"What do we want?"

"Oral sex!"

"When do we want it?"

"NOW!"

If that doesn't bring it into the public eye, then what else will?

Offline Moondazed

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2006, 04:25:06 PM »
Of course they have and I hazard a guess that anal sex isn't beyond them either, it is after all, not just a homosexual practice.

It's not? *innocent fluttering of eyelashes*

Offline RogueJedi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2006, 09:03:26 PM »
You know what the same-sex marriage amendment is looking to do here in Virginia, don't you?  I was talking to someone from Equality Virginia and they were saying that if the amendment passes, they would seek court action against every college in the state, on almost the same grounds as this.

Remember, the same-sex marriage bill will ban contracts between people of the same-sex living together (which can be taken as rent and such).

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2006, 10:03:54 PM »
You know what the same-sex marriage amendment is looking to do here in Virginia, don't you?  I was talking to someone from Equality Virginia and they were saying that if the amendment passes, they would seek court action against every college in the state, on almost the same grounds as this.

Remember, the same-sex marriage bill will ban contracts between people of the same-sex living together (which can be taken as rent and such).

I know, and it irritates me. No one should have the right to tell me I can't enter into contracts with people, or decide who I want to live with.

I really think the wording on this amendment goes too far. It hurts way too many people.

Offline Zakharra

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2006, 10:07:08 PM »
 It'll be challanged in court. Even if it passes the Virginia State Houses, it can't stand if it contradicts the US Constituion.

Offline RogueJedi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2006, 10:08:40 PM »
Equality Virginia wants to make a point.  If it passes, expect them to press to declare all frats and sororities unconstitutional.  Also, probably all same-sex dorms and such.  They are adament that this proposed amendment needs to be defeated, or else EVERYONE will suffer.  Not just gay, lesbian, bi, and trans peoples.

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2006, 10:11:42 PM »
I don't think it will fail in the courts here. The Attorney General has worked very hard to ensure that the legal wording will pass scrutiny, and Courts here, both State and Federal are very conservative. Like most of the other states who have passed similar measures, it will pass with overwhelming support here. The test legally will encompass whether or not people who are not related by blood or marriage can still enter into legally binding arrangements for property, power of attorney, etc.

From what has been publicly said, this will not change, so if that is indeed the case as the AG has said, then it will pass the legal muster in the courts.

Offline RogueJedi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2006, 10:17:57 PM »
I don't know if it will actually pass.  No other state had the extra wording in their amendments as Virginia does.  Remember, Virginia already forbids same-sex marriage in the state Constitution.  This is to prevent any stupid little judge from overturning that.

My feelings are, government has no rright to either promote or condemn any type of marriage.  Churches can do that, as they are outside of government (or supposed to be).  But Massachusetts was wrong to mandate same-sex marriage, and Virginia is wrong to outlaw it.

Offline Purple

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2006, 10:32:54 PM »
I know, and it irritates me. No one should have the right to tell me I can't enter into contracts with people, or decide who I want to live with.

But by the same token, no one should have the right to tell Mr. and Mrs. Smith that they MUST enter into contracts with people whom they fundamentally disagree with, even if Mr. and Mrs. S are in the wrong.  It is their right to believe what they choose and to live the way they desire.  This is where the problem lies.  Forcing more conservative people to accept lifestyles they disagree with will never solve the problem, they'll just cry out louder that their rights are being trampled upon, and they are.  Instead, leave them alone.  Either they'll change their minds or they won't.  If I owned a restaurant and decided that smoking was dangerous it is within my rights to refuse to allow smoking inside my restaurant.  Well these people truly believe, according to their faith and morals, that some of these things are wrong.  Are they right?  I won't know for sure until I die, it's a tough call for me.  But remember that I'm here with ya'll so I obviously have questions of my own.  But I live with these people.  This is happening in my very state.  I live in the Bible Belt.  These people are generally good, loving people who believe in God and believe in the Bible and just want everyone to go to heaven.  Do they go about it the wrong way?  Frequently they do.  But they're people and they also have the right to make mistakes, don't they?

And according to rights...according to our Constitution the local government is granted the right to decide such things, not the federal government.  So if the people of this town choose to live in such a manner, it's their rignt, it's their town.  Don't live there.  I sure won't.  Part of being an American is taking the good with the bad.  Allowing others to believe what they want to believe even if it might hurt us, even if we will argue against what they think with our dying breath.  That's what makes this country difficult to live in but great.  Think about the great melting pot of New York, for example.  What happened?  Like people lived together, they did not intermingle.  Right?  Wrong?  Who knows for sure, but it does make sense.  What I don't understand is why in this day and age we can't just leave each other alone and let our fellow Americans be.

Offline Zakharra

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2006, 11:20:15 PM »

My feelings are, government has no rright to either promote or condemn any type of marriage. Churches can do that, as they are outside of government (or supposed to be). But Massachusetts was wrong to mandate same-sex marriage, and Virginia is wrong to outlaw it.

 That can't happen. As long as you need a licence to get married, then the government has the authority to intefere.  Now that being said, I don't think churches should be forced to marry a couple that they don't want to. It's not proper to force a church to marry a same sex couple if it's not in their belief system.

 Massachutsetts put a qualifier in their same sex marriage law, that a same sex marriage in Massachutsettes is not legally binding out of state. That was put in to prevent couples from coming instate to get married, then going home to their original state and demanding that state recognize the marrriage thru the Equal Rights Act.

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2006, 07:09:30 AM »
Quote
But by the same token, no one should have the right to tell Mr. and Mrs. Smith that they MUST enter into contracts with people whom they fundamentally disagree with, even if Mr. and Mrs. S are in the wrong.

I agree, if that comment is directed towards the Missouri case.

I meant that comment to refer to the Virginia Gay Marriage Banning Amendment that is on the ballot here in the fall. Some people are saying that the amendment will forbid any sort of contracts by two people who aren't married, for any reason.

For instance, some are saying that if I and my best friend, who is a male, want to decide that he should have my power of attorney, or we want to buy a house together, that we won't be able to. I shouldn't have to only buy a house or piece of property with my wife.

As an American, I should have the right to decide those matters for myself, not the state.

Offline Zakharra

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2006, 08:20:05 AM »
 If that's how it is written, that could also include a divorced father and son from living together, or as has been said earlier, collages and universities. Or if someone wants to store some things at a storage place, or buy a car, or get insurance, cable, a driving licence, anything really that you have to put pen to paper to sign.  Hells, this could apply to joining the military!   :o

Offline Celestial Goblin

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2006, 12:28:00 PM »
The whole purpose of this laws seem to give the bigoted folks an opportunity of using them against anybody in sight that they want to. The way they work, everybody (accept hermits and paralytic people) is guilty of something.
It's like declaring open season on anybody that isn't a fundamentalist prude christian with deep pockets.

edit: any when somebody will care enough to sue everybody that breaks this kind of laws, it will be enough to show they make no sense. this is were USA needs a burst of civil activism, and probably will have it.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 12:29:21 PM by Celestial Goblin »

Offline Elvi

Re: It just gets weirder and more draconian
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2006, 12:41:32 PM »
Hermits - squatters

Paraplegics - loitering with intent?