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Author Topic: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.  (Read 2509 times)

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Offline KarmaTopic starter


Offline Revolverman

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 01:13:12 AM »
Ah, the hypocrisy of government.

Offline Will

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 10:01:34 AM »
O.o

It's like some huge, crazy festival with celebrities coming to play.  They've even got a climbing wall, bowling alley, and swimming pools for the "protesters" to have fun with.  What kind of protesters go bowling at a rally?  The limos and planes speak for themselves as well.  This whole thing is a joke.

Now, that said...
Quote
And this being Scandinavia, even the prostitutes are doing their bit for the planet. Outraged by a council postcard urging delegates to "be sustainable, don't buy sex," the local sex workers' union they have unions here has announced that all its 1,400 members will give free intercourse to anyone with a climate conference delegate's pass. The term "carbon dating" just took on an entirely new meaning.
Hahahahaha.

Offline consortium11

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2009, 12:16:21 PM »
One of the largest issues those trying to prevent man-made climate change have is trying to stop the pulic picking up on the hypocricy of the movements figureheads and leaders. It's a sad fact, but attack the messenger works quite well... especially when one can point to Al Gore and say "you say climate change is the greatest threat to face the world... but why do you have a multi-bedroom mansion that uses more electricity in a week than an average house does in a year" (or whatever the stats were on that story)... or why they use so many private planes.

Offline KarmaTopic starter

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2009, 12:18:40 PM »
Just put Bill Nye and Ed Begley Jr. in charge of it already...

Offline consortium11

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2009, 12:40:32 PM »
I should point out that the free hookers has one huge positive attatched...

I doubt Silvio Berlusconi will be around the conference long enough to conduct his wacky brand of crude "comedy"...

Offline Revolverman

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2009, 12:44:47 PM »
You know your a bad leader when you make people look pleasantly back to when the Fascists were in charge.

Offline Jude

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2009, 03:18:09 PM »
At the same time, how else are you going to have the most important leaders of various countries get to the summit?  They can't fly commercial or public for security reasons, so I totally understand the private jets thing.  The limo thing makes me scratch my head too.

Are all of the people going to the conference going be in favor of it or are there world leaders who are skeptical in attendance as well?

Offline Scribbles

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2009, 03:30:14 PM »
I know absolutely nothing about technology, despite my studies, but I have to ask, isn't it possible to have these conferences done through the internet, satellite, video, etc; do we really need to transport so many to one location or do we have the technology to avoid such wastage?

Offline consortium11

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2009, 03:34:49 PM »
At the same time, how else are you going to have the most important leaders of various countries get to the summit? They can't fly commercial or public for security reasons, so I totally understand the private jets thing.

There are apparently only 110 heads of state going... compared to 140 private jets. And even with that wouldn't it make green sense for at least the European leaders to either drive or sail there? Or certain nations to share planes?

The limo thing makes me scratch my head too.

Think of the entire conference in the same way as a corporate perk and it makes sense. If you were spiteful you'd mention how it's a lot of "do as I say, not as I do..." type people who always attend these things. Hell, you may even wonder why with the technology we have today they don't just do the whole thing over the internet rather than have a carbon footprint the size of Morocco in 2006...

Are all of the people going to the conference going be in favor of it or are there world leaders who are skeptical in attendance as well?

A few are skeptical... the Saudi emissary came out and said he thought the recent Climategate issue rendered the whole meeting pointless. On the whole the big issue is etween the industrialised West, Africa and Island Nations (supported supposedly by Russia and China). The West wants a non-binding treaty setting a limit of about 2C. The Island nations want a limit of about 1.5C and for it to be legaly inding. Africa also want the 1.5C limit... as well as massive compensation from the West for the effects Climate Change has already had on them. None of the Western nations have pledged anything close to the 1.5 limit and it's doubtful they can (especially if legally binding) and compensation would be political suicide. In normal circumstances you'd expect the West to buy off the others... but with China and Russia supporting the Island Nations (presumedly as a political move) and the fact that if everything goes wrong those nations will literally sink that may just not be an option.

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Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2009, 04:24:36 PM »
I know absolutely nothing about technology, despite my studies, but I have to ask, isn't it possible to have these conferences done through the internet, satellite, video, etc; do we really need to transport so many to one location or do we have the technology to avoid such wastage?

Considering that big corporations use video-conferencing, it would make a certain amount of sense.  All you really need is webcams, microphones and a properly protected server to hold all the sensitive data.  Think of all they'd save on physical security measures!

Offline KarmaTopic starter

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2009, 04:26:08 PM »
Why videoconferencing wasn't the standard five years ago I'll never know. I guess there's something to be said for the "show" of such events, but really. If we stop sensationalizing everything and you know, apply real thought and effort, we might get somewhere...

Offline consortium11

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2009, 04:33:16 PM »
There's something to be said for the way conferences work (or at least everyone in the same area) in that people who otherwise wouldn't meet get a chance to. Things like in the line for a coffee, at a hotel abr, at any number of side presentations, touring the city etc etc. With tele-conferencing type set ups any of those things are highly unlikely to happen.

That said, it always seems strange how for an event essentially about controlling carbon emissions that people are flown in from all over the world and generally given 5* treatment... especially as there's a good chance we'll once again be told we shouldn't go on package holidays once again...

Offline MercyfulFate

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 02:48:33 AM »
The problem with things like this is that they want to levy taxes and cap and trade on the people, while continuing to do the very things they claim they need to stop.

Offline Farmboy

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 05:26:41 PM »
You wouldn't seriously have world leaders riding bikes to a climate conference, would you? Is it hypocritical to use a limosine? I wonder, if you were President, would you ride your bike down Main Street? Not me. In fact, if I won the lottery, I can't say that I would use a bike to get around, and I sure as heck wouldn't drive a beater. In fact, if I were a millionaire, I wouldn't drive. I'm sick of driving. That's why I ride the bus.

Humans affect the world we live in. There's no question that some impact on climate comes from natural forces, but we are talking about how we contribute to changes that hurt us. That's all. Minimizing our impact is done for purely selfish reasons. We need to drink the water and breath the air. Yes, there is such a thing as axial tilt, but there is also such a thing as ozone, and frankly, my skin can't filter the radiation that comes through if the ozone layer is destroyed. There are forests that create our oxygen. I can't make oxygen faster or better than a jungle. Can you?

If I were a world leader, I would certainly show up at the conference in a limo. I do not trust people who say they would do otherwise.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 05:28:01 PM by Aislin »

Offline Revolverman

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 06:26:01 PM »
So the fact they can tell us what we need to be doing, why they do something that is the antisise to that, doesn't bother you at all?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 06:40:02 PM by Revolverman »

Offline Trieste

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Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 06:31:50 PM »
Watch the loaded language, please.

Offline Revolverman

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 06:39:15 PM »
Apologies. I shall edit it.

Offline Trieste

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Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 06:41:06 PM »
Thank you kindly.

Offline Farmboy

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2009, 02:10:04 PM »
So the fact they can tell us what we need to be doing, why they do something that is the antisise to that, doesn't bother you at all?

Au contraire. WE tell THEM what to do, don't we? At least, in the democratic countries. So we tell them we need tougher climate laws, and then China says they won't cooperate, and everybody goes home. They did get something done. They did what we told them to do, frankly, which was to get together AGAIN and try again to reach an accord. And they didn't. But it is better that they try than that they assume it will fail. And they should try again, soon.

China is running coal-burning electric plants. We have to make sense to them that it is not a good thing.

Hugh Grant in Love Actually as the Prime Minister of England is chauffeured in a silver Jaguar. I'm there.

Are you asking me if I think world leaders should not use limos? I don't get it. Why wouldn't a world leader ride in a limo? I am afraid you'll be greatly disappointed if you don't adjust your expectations to match the real world.

Anyhow, don't beat me up. I own a car but I ride the bus to work. I am doing what I can. I recycle and I vote for people who claim to care about climate change.

But if I were a billionaire, I would have to ride a limo, wouldn't I? If I were a world leader (which I could never be because I was busted for pot possession about 35 years ago), I would have to ride in a limo. That is what I expect.

No, it doesn't bother me because I have practiced patience and forgiveness and compassion and especially expectation reduction. It will take a selfish motive to get people to change. A person can change himself, groups on the other hand tend to change very slowly. So we need some laws. I hope they get together again, and I refuse to get upset that they ride in limos.

Offline Revolverman

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 06:03:03 PM »
"Au contraire. WE tell THEM what to do, don't we? At least, in the democratic countries. So we tell them we need tougher climate laws, and then China says they won't cooperate, and everybody goes home. They did get something done. They did what we told them to do, frankly, which was to get together AGAIN and try again to reach an accord. And they didn't. But it is better that they try than that they assume it will fail. And they should try again, soon."

Debatable that we as the people have any say in anything, even in Democratic countries. Blaming everything on China, and not doing anything because China doesn't want to play ball is also very childish.

"China is running coal-burning electric plants. We have to make sense to them that it is not a good thing."

Burning ANYTHING is a waste. We have nuclear power for that. (The great insanity is we call Nukes unsafe, yet coal power has killed many millions more.)

"Hugh Grant in Love Actually as the Prime Minister of England is chauffeured in a silver Jaguar. I'm there."

I don't understand what you mean.

"Are you asking me if I think world leaders should not use limos? I don't get it. Why wouldn't a world leader ride in a limo? I am afraid you'll be greatly disappointed if you don't adjust your expectations to match the real world.

Because world "Leaders" are gloried bandits and warlords.

"Anyhow, don't beat me up. I own a car but I ride the bus to work. I am doing what I can. I recycle and I vote for people who claim to care about climate change."

I'm not. I just find it strange you grant governments so much leeway when you don't even give yourself that.

"But if I were a billionaire, I would have to ride a limo, wouldn't I? If I were a world leader (which I could never be because I was busted for pot possession about 35 years ago), I would have to ride in a limo. That is what I expect."

The Difference is the billionaire (Assuming he is honest, a stretch (Puns!) I know) has EARNED the money to ride around in a Limo, while a world leader has had to rob and loot his people to get one.

"No, it doesn't bother me because I have practiced patience and forgiveness and compassion and especially expectation reduction. It will take a selfish motive to get people to change. A person can change himself, groups on the other hand tend to change very slowly. So we need some laws. I hope they get together again, and I refuse to get upset that they ride in limos."

You grant these people far more then they deserve.

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Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2009, 06:13:52 PM »
"But if I were a billionaire, I would have to ride a limo, wouldn't I? If I were a world leader (which I could never be because I was busted for pot possession about 35 years ago), I would have to ride in a limo. That is what I expect."

The Difference is the billionaire (Assuming he is honest, a stretch (Puns!) I know) has EARNED the money to ride around in a Limo, while a world leader has had to rob and loot his people to get one.

The billionaire has also earned the right to be completely eccentric and ride around on a horse.  Just because you're rich doesn't mean you have to use a specific means of transportation.

Offline Revolverman

Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2009, 06:58:53 PM »
The billionaire has also earned the right to be completely eccentric and ride around on a horse.  Just because you're rich doesn't mean you have to use a specific means of transportation.

I agree 100% I am just saying I feel like someone who has earned the money they spend on transportation has more of a right to it then those who steal it.

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Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2009, 08:28:22 PM »
:)  I was more puzzled by the image of a billionaire 'having' to ride in a limo that you were responding to (I quoted for some context).  I can just imagine this really rich guy being shoved into the back of a limo and being told 'No, you can't drive.'

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: I don't post in here like ever, but this is ridiculous.
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2009, 09:11:21 PM »
I don't think being a world leader or a billionaire earns anyone the right to be a two faced hypocrite.  They do not have to ride in limos or on private jets. . .they could do what real people do.  *shrugs*