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Author Topic: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church  (Read 4246 times)

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Offline SabbyTopic starter

Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« on: May 31, 2009, 08:54:17 PM »

Offline The Overlord

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 09:00:29 PM »

And here's how the far right handles things if they don't get their way. Maybe we need a leftist militant movement to adopt a similar measure. If you can't live with them without them wanting to shoot at you, then you can't live with them.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2009, 09:05:19 PM »
And here's how the far right handles things if they don't get their way. Maybe we need a leftist militant movement to adopt a similar measure. If you can't live with them without them wanting to shoot at you, then you can't live with them.

Now that is a lil extreme. I'm pro-choice, so naturally I'm okay with Abortion. but this was the actions of one very intolerant man masking his hate with Faith. While I believe the majority of these Anti-Abortion people are utter dicks, at least they keep their protests non-violent. Their victims in this as well, as they'll get the backlash from this, when all their doing is expressing those American Rights people so love to throw around these days.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2009, 09:13:20 PM »
Now that is a lil extreme. I'm pro-choice, so naturally I'm okay with Abortion. but this was the actions of one very intolerant man masking his hate with Faith. While I believe the majority of these Anti-Abortion people are utter dicks, at least they keep their protests non-violent. Their victims in this as well, as they'll get the backlash from this, when all their doing is expressing those American Rights people so love to throw around these days.

Problem is, I know he's not the only one that thinks like this, he's just the one that acted. John Wilkes Booth...James Earl Ray...the perpetrator here is just the latest in a long line of sad little men that find only one solution if their beliefs on human rights are upheld to their satisfaction.

Offline rafufu

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2009, 09:52:36 PM »
Regardless of whether abortion is right or wrong, to shoot someone in a church, while claiming to be Christian, is just wrong on so many different levels

Offline Darius

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2009, 11:48:59 PM »
During the late 80ís when the fundies were Ďprotestingí at his Wichita clinic I worked one summer as a volunteer escorting patients into that clinic. Youíve never met a worse group of people. These people who claimed to hold life so sacred attacked everyone, and the viciousness of it was the worst thing I'd ever experienced. 

The only thing I can say is that Iím surprised it took one of them so long to get close enough to do it.

It makes me ashamed to say that Iím from KS.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 03:07:08 AM »
I expect this story to draw strong emotion from people. I still expect the discussion to be kept civil.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 09:02:47 AM »
Regardless of whether abortion is right or wrong, to shoot someone in a church, while claiming to be Christian, is just wrong on so many different levels

This really sums up everything I feel about this incident.  Whatever group this guy claims to represent, he has done them the worst possible disservice by his actions.  I blame him as an individual for the crime he has committed.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 12:16:59 PM »
Regardless of whether abortion is right or wrong, to shoot someone in a church, while claiming to be Christian, is just wrong on so many different levels

Especially if you're a member of that faith, but even as an agnostic I feel there's some lines you don't just cross...committing heinous crimes in anyone's church is just wrong.

Offline Mathim

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 12:34:20 PM »
There will never be any resolution to this issue, it's pointless debating it. Fact is, if women aren't allowed to do this then they'll either A. do it at home themselves and either hurt themselves in the process or even die, B. pay someone to do it illegally or go to another country to do it, C. have it and give it up for adoption which would condemn it to a living hell, believe you me, and then that leads to the inevitable critical overpopulation of emotionally unhealthy people who are forced to commit crimes or turn to drugs or have more unwanted kids. It's a spiral in one direction, and a brick wall in another. There's no happy ending for anyone involved in this, on either side.

I'm starting to think these doctors ought to be given 24-hour, secret-service style bodyguards, though.

Offline Avi

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Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 01:30:34 PM »
Regardless of whether abortion is right or wrong, to shoot someone in a church, while claiming to be Christian, is just wrong on so many different levels

Exactly.  I'm against abortion in most cases, especially late-term, but to shoot someone in the name of God, in a place that is dedicated to His worship, is just disgusting, no matter what their moral views might be.  "Thou shalt not murder", people.  Heard of it?

Offline Avi

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Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 01:32:56 PM »
-snip-
C. have it and give it up for adoption which would condemn it to a living hell, believe you me.
-snip

*blinks*  Ummm... most kids who are put up for adoption live normal, healthy lives.  My sister and I are two of them. 

Offline Zakharra

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 01:34:39 PM »
C. have it and give it up for adoption which would condemn it to a living hell, believe you me, and then that leads to the inevitable critical overpopulation of emotionally unhealthy people who are forced to commit crimes or turn to drugs or have more unwanted kids. It's a spiral in one direction, and a brick wall in another. There's no happy ending for anyone involved in this, on either side.

 You have facts to back that up? I cannot believe that a majority or even a large minority of adopted children suffer like that. There are no news stories being plastered all over the news about it. Which there would be if it was happening.

Offline Mathim

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 01:36:14 PM »
Orphanages are hell on earth. That's all you need to know. The lucky ones who do get adopted won't have to go through that, but those who aren't so lucky, those who end up in the foster system or whatever, are basically put in concentration camps for children. Believe me, I've asked the same questions myself, how any of that is allowed to happen, and I never get an answer I like hearing.

And no, you wouldn't hear about this on the news, or people might actually be outraged enough to demand the government do something about it, which they're not about to do. It's the same reason you never hear about the children who are murdered or commit murder in juvenile hall or anything like that.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 01:41:33 PM by Mathim »

Offline Bliss

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2009, 01:58:13 PM »
I'll be happy to split the discussion regarding adoption into its own thread, if you wish to continue.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2009, 03:15:12 PM »
Orphanages are hell on earth. That's all you need to know.

 Cough up proof or we'll assume you are just lying and blowing smoke. Just saying something does not make it true. Proof or it's just insuniation and lies.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 03:44:16 PM »
Let's keep the tone civil, shall we?

Offline Zakharra

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2009, 04:11:29 PM »
Let's keep the tone civil, shall we?

 Right. I will.

 
I'll be happy to split the discussion regarding adoption into its own thread, if you wish to continue.

 That might be good if we continue to discuss it.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2009, 04:14:12 PM »
 The shooting was  a bad thing, and will only hurt the anti-abortion movements cause. I've already heard it on the radio as a possible wedge to start censoring radio broadcasts for 'inflammatory retoric'. Mind you this was on what is considered a right wing radio, as  their view of how it can be used as an attack against the anti-abortionists.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 04:20:39 PM »
Considering some of the comments I've seen attributed to a certain right wing presenter (Bill O'Reilly), concerning the man who was murdered, I can see why they might be worried about that.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/05/31/tiller/

Quote
Tiller's name first appeared on "The Factor" on Feb. 25, 2005. Since then, O'Reilly and his guest hosts have brought up the doctor on 28 more episodes, including as recently as April 27 of this year. Almost invariably, Tiller is described as "Tiller the Baby Killer."

Tiller, O'Reilly likes to say, "destroys fetuses for just about any reason right up until the birth date for $5,000." He's guilty of "Nazi stuff," said O'Reilly on June 8, 2005; a moral equivalent to NAMBLA and al-Qaida, he suggested on March 15, 2006. "This is the kind of stuff happened in Mao's China, Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Soviet Union," said O'Reilly on Nov. 9, 2006.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2009, 04:29:47 PM »
 Has he called for the killing of the Dr though?

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2009, 04:34:13 PM »
Overtly, not that I am aware off. I doubt he'd be stupid enough to say that on air.

What he has said doesn't exactly require much interpretation though, does it?

Offline Zakharra

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2009, 05:18:41 PM »
 Only if you are inclinded to want to do that. To be using that as a justification because of the potential of someone reading something into it and acting, as a reason to censor is wrong.

 It wasn't too long ago there was a book published that went over the step by step plan of how to assassinate a president.  It was put out as two men talking about a hypothesis to a President that was extemely similar to the then sitting President Bush. There were cries of plots, but the left defended it saying it was 1, fiction,   2, not talk about a real plot, and 3, Free Speech.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2009, 05:33:38 PM »
I see repeated use of words designed to provoke an emotional response. Nazism. al-Qaida. Communism. If you are repeatedly told that something is bad, and you already are inclined to think that way, it will just serve as reinforcement.

Quote
He's guilty of "Nazi stuff," said O'Reilly

How exactly does that require reading in to? Everyone with a decent knowledge of history is aware of the atrocities commited during the Nazis time in power. That wording is designed to provoke revulsion and anger. Continually refering to him as 'baby killer' ... that doesn't require much reading into either, does it?

I'm not aware of this book, or of any controversy around it, so I can't comment on that.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Abortion doctor gunned down in Church
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2009, 05:39:00 PM »
 The book didn't get a lot of national press, mainly because it was the right that was objecting. so the mainstream media  ::) just did not cover it that much.