Topic: On Fast Approvals

[Dingo]

This is the fourth in my series of blogs and hopefully not the last in a long time, although two of you voted that I should quit. But you failed to see, that would have been just my next topic. The only way I quit is if I know nobody reads my blogs and cares enough to vote about them.

Several people cared a lot to read my opinion on stuff and for that I thank them and for those I shall continue with the original format.

Every Saturday I will post one blog about any topic that you can vote on, I will take the samples from the comments in my previous blog. So if you want to read my opinions on a certain topic be sure to leave them at the end of this blog and vote for them when I put the vote up on Monday. But be quick to vote, because I may need some time to write the blog therefor after only forty-eight hours the vote closes again.

So leave your comments and ask my opinion on anything you want.

Now, I was asked to write my opinion on fast approvals here on Elliquiy.

I think that the approvals here are too fast. And I have heard that behind the scenes there is communication with some of those that are approved, but Elliquiy is in my eyes still a literary site first and foremost. And your introduction should represent that.

Now I might be the only one who hates the silly questions, but questions do not hurt as they give you a chance to write, show how good your are to the general public. For those of you who got in without so much as answering a single question, good for you, but it doesn't really give you a calling card in finding new games.

When I get a request from a new member (that is less than 200 posts) I always look at their introduction thread. That is the first impression they have to make on me. If that is bad, I tell them I'm not interested and move on.

Another reason why I think fast approvals are not a good thing is patience. There are some people here who enjoy to take their time writing, some no more than a post per game a week and others like to write in rapid pace, but can take huge pauses in between. A slower approval would also give people an impression of how patient you can be.

So if you really look at it through what I have just written, a fast approval is all the more detrimental to yourself. People don't “know” you and so when you want to write with them they might say no. A good introduction is like your calling card to the community.

Hello my name is Dingo, and I can write and like to write.

[jouzinka]

I think I couldn't agree more.

[Desan]

I think I couldn't agree more.

I second that opinion. It's funny how some of the newbies complain about not getting in after A DAY (or two!!!). Listen folks, it took me two weeks to get in. That was after answering question after question after question! If anything, I think 3-5 days should be the minimum a person should wait, just so that they can learn that being patient pays off =]

[Aestas]

I don't know.  When i was waiting to get in the questions rebounded off me for about three days.  After that I was moved to pending and my application just sat there for another four to five days until I was approved.  No new questions.  No new way for anyone to get to know me. 

I suppose you could say that tested my patience, but really, it just gave me a chance to reach 300 posts in the Doormat. :}   so who knows. 

Personally I never look at a person's introduction thread unless it's for something specific. I generally find it much more telling to glance through their recent games.

[jouzinka]

I don't know - I waited a week, which wasn't some big deal. My comment was aimed at the VERY fast approvals. I mean, I have seen people approved after just posting the questionnaire. What else does that tell about the poster than that (s)he can fill in a form correctly?

Given this short info and the mere impersonal list people usually put into O&O, when someone like that wants to game, some potential co-writers have nothing to work with. Bottom line is (as Dingo already pointed out) that fast approvals are in the end against the well-being of the new applicants here on E.

BTW how do you choose your writing partners then, Aestas? Given they have no games running.

[Desan]

Also interaction in the Doormat as well as SB could potentially help the new applicants in getting their name out there while they wait for approval . Of course, if they are mature and don't act like 13 year olds it will help them in the long run =]

[Aestas]

I don't know - I waited a week, which wasn't some big deal. My comment was aimed at the VERY fast approvals. I mean, I have seen people approved after just posting the questionnaire. What else does that tell about the poster than that (s)he can fill in a form correctly?

Given this short info and the mere impersonal list people usually put into O&O, when someone like that wants to game, some potential co-writers have nothing to work with. Bottom line is (as Dingo already pointed out) that fast approvals are in the end against the well-being of the new applicants here on E.

BTW how do you choose your writing partners then, Aestas? Given they have no games running.

Well, I've started games with people based upon fooling around in the public threads.  Whether they had games going or not.  Recently I started a game with a fellow whose Introduction I was following until he got approved and my game with him was his first.

But I guess.  Straight off the street.  No previous games.  I look at their O/os.  If their O/os are scarce or not there, then I generally send them a polite refusal saying that I'm full up on games and that hopefully we might come to some agreement in the future. (IE when they have something I can look at. >.>)

And no, i wasn't saying that my week was too long or not long enough.   I was merely saying that after the first three days nothing was really added, as far as the Intro thread was concerned.

[jouzinka]

And no, i wasn't saying that my week was too long or not long enough.   I was merely saying that after the first three days nothing was really added, as far as the Intro thread was concerned.

I wasn't implying anything like that. Thanks for your answer though.

[Greenthorn]

I held off on commenting because I see things a different way.  Fast approvals are not necessarily a bad thing considering that the staff is pretty damn good at slamming creeps and idiots as soon as the behavior starts.

With such a dedicated staff as Elliquiy has, I'm pretty confident that 90% of the people who are still here a month after they are approved, are fairly decent people.

If newbies choose to not provide a sample of their writing, then they will have a problems getting games.  But...E is not just for writing, as much as that was the original intention of the site. (at least that is my understanding)  It has become a social gathering in addition to somewhere to write. 

If the length of time before one is approved is worrisome, I recommend becoming a mentor .  Only actions can make changes, not words.

[Oniya]

Even for those who aren't mentors - some of the people in the intro section express a desire for crazy questions/writing samples and then don't get any.  One thread that I took note of (since I gave him a question and then nobody else did) was Shinji's.  (Sorry, I can't type his actual user name.  )  There is a string of posts where he was the only one 'replying'.

I know we had a period where applicants got overwhelmed by silly questions, but now we seem to have gone to the other end of the spectrum.  Just because you aren't a mentor doesn't mean that you can't help a newbie out.

[Aestas]

I would also like the note, since Greenthorn reminded me, that my introduction was done before the new mentor program went through.  So most of what I said is, perhaps, no longer the case.  *smiles* 

[Greenthorn]

Oniya...what happened was that staff told us "no more silly questions".  You are correct, and I totally disagree with it.

I used to be in the intros every morning with my little list of silly questions...but now, I don't bother checking!! 

[Oniya]

I believe that stand was relaxed somewhat when the option was given to the applicants to request crazy questions or writing samples.  They aren't required to ask for either, but some do.  I know that Dawg is usually in there with a writing sample request, and I will sometimes drop a single question onto a newbie's intro thread.

The thing that was really discouraged was the string of unanswered questions - i.e., newbies with four or five posts, each containing a list of questions and none of them answered at all.

[Autumn Sativus]

I think that just two days ago, I would have agreed with you full-heartedly Dingo. But now I realize that there is a behind the scenes process to approvals, and that thought does go into each and every approval. Some people leave a lasting impression in their questionnaire or within their first few posts, which means that their approval may be very speedy, while other times it is just generally felt that more time/information is necessary before a decision should be made.

I think that in general, the behind the scenes process is to bring people through as soon as there is a general consensus that they are well suited to the community, in that way they don't have to wait to really spread their wings.

I think by upping the amount of time people would be waiting, we'd be scaring people off and making them think we are an elite community. Right now it's not so bad ("I join now, by this time tomorrow I might be able to stat playing"), add a few days to that an it's ("In a week I might be role playing... well... why don't I go find something where I can start sooner"). I'm not going to deny that I'm impatient. I actually avoided joining E for nearly a month because I'd rather find something immediate than wait several days to start role playing.

Anyway, my two cents - the 24 minimum period is good in my opinion, and I think that decisions should not be made on just the questionnaire, but once they have responded several times.

[Creeper]

I disagree. I come from waaay back from the day when there wasn't ANY approval process short of a post saying you were over 18. It worked out perfectly fine. Sure more immature people got in, but they were found out eventually from their deeds. I also understand the need for the process to protect the site from angry parents.

But trolls are going to get in whether we like it or not. It doesn't matter if they have to wait an extra day or two.

Elliquiy is in my eyes still a literary site first and foremost.

If by 'literary' you mean 'writing', then I agree! If you mean by 'good spelling and grammar' then I disagree. I'd explain but I don't want to chastise you for a position you may not hold. 


Now I might be the only one who hates the silly questions, but questions do not hurt as they give you a chance to write, show how good your are to the general public. For those of you who got in without so much as answering a single question, good for you, but it doesn't really give you a calling card in finding new games.

I've always found a list of interests to be a better calling card than an introduction. People tend to jump on a particular fetish faster than a writing sample from my experience.


When I get a request from a new member (that is less than 200 posts) I always look at their introduction thread. That is the first impression they have to make on me. If that is bad, I tell them I'm not interested and move on.

That's cool. We all look for different things in a writing partner.


Another reason why I think fast approvals are not a good thing is patience. There are some people here who enjoy to take their time writing, some no more than a post per game a week and others like to write in rapid pace, but can take huge pauses in between. A slower approval would also give people an impression of how patient you can be.

This can be fixed by simple communication. Just say 'oh I can only post in such and such time' or 'I take this long to make posts typically.' Throw it in your sig or your profile or your ons and offs.

Plus the approval process does take days. That's HUGE in internet time. This is a literary site, not an exclusive club. The mods should do enough to protect the site and its members without unduely inconveniencing new players. We want to protect the community without scaring new members off.


So if you really look at it through what I have just written, a fast approval is all the more detrimental to yourself. People don't “know” you and so when you want to write with them they might say no. A good introduction is like your calling card to the community.

No offense meant, good Dingo, but I only see this as applicable to your standards. I've never checked the introduction of a potential writing partner except in passing and it does not factor into my choice of partners.

A good intro can help a new player, certainly, but with E's size and player base I don't think a sparse Intro is detrimental at all.

[Vekseid]

Yes, it's a part of the questionnaire now.

Dingo got in after two days, three posts, and mentioned his own impatience. The thing is...

Elliquiy was made to be a roleplaying site.

First. Foremost.

That may involve a literary bent but it does not necessarily mean social. We had the fast approval process for nearly a year, and it worked fairly well. Elvi's system is no longer with us for a number of reasons, but when Muse (who is responsible for about 10% of Elliquiy's current size, including this blog's author, even) had friends getting stymied, there was obviously a problem.

Not everyone is like you. You are not going to like everyone. Not everyone is going to like you. Not everyone's style matches yours. Four communities have now been built on the idea that "Vekseid/Elliquiy sucks." So don't try to claim I don't understand that, I will laugh at you.

Elliquiy depends more than most sites do on its membership. Donations pay for all costs, mentors and staff are needed to actively introduce and assign new members. Everyone who enters Elliquiy receives interaction from a minimum of three people, the notice of a minimum of seven, and likely a lot more.

Some of these people are shy. Some of them are nervous.

Using the old, slow method... some people fell through the cracks. Entirely. I still wince when I read some of them - a few would have made very beautiful members : /

Others were driven away by the silly questions, still others by the seeming enormity of the place. Some were driven off due to rudeness on a few parts (now, I hope, eliminated). I don't like driving people off. I'm very specific now about why, when and how.

There's supposed to be a limit, 2 posts, 500+ words, 24 hours. We also look at IRC and shoutbox activity, but I think those limits, when held to, are just fine.

[jouzinka]

I don't think this entry was meant to doubt work staff puts into approvals, people, rather than the impact a short intro might have on integrating a fast approved member to the community.

[Petra]

My only input really is that: when I joined I asked for crazy questions, but received none. It was, I think, just after members were told not to post the questions, as I thought that meant I could not post in other intro threads. Silly noob I was.

I got in after, maybe a week, but was too shy to post in the doormat, and thought that any part except the introductions section was off limits. I didn't know about IRC either, until I explored as an approved member. Again I was a silly noob. ^^

Now, sometimes it does seem that the approvals are quite fast, though the thought may be so because when you think of something as wrong, you do not count the good things, but only the bad. The trouble makers are the ones that stick in the minds of other members. But as well, the approval process is somewhat better now than when I applied. The mentors stroll through and ask questions, and the new people visit other threads as well.

I didn't do that though, with curses on my shy nature. ^^;

[crystaltears]

Just some thoughts from a new member...

I am very shy, but filled out the questionnaire thoroughly as I wanted to make an impression, however, in the SB and the Doormat thread I was... pretty durn quiet (I made a handful of short posts in the doormat and talked in the shoutbox when there seemed to be like 4 or less people in it). As a new person to a large community that knew very little about me and which I knew very little about (beyond what non-members can see anyways, such as how accepting people are of quirks and kinks), I really felt like everything I was saying in those places might reflect upon me in regards to my application; I didn't want it to reflect poorly.

Anything posted directly into my thread I was comfortable with responding to, and in retrospect now that I know the atmosphere of E, I really shouldn't have been concerned. The atmosphere is wonderfully accepting and supportive of -people- for who they are so long as they are respectful.

Now, I'm a very self-conscious person. Had my post gotten the questions it did, and then gone into a sort of pending state with no activity for a 'long' (relative term, really) period of time I would have likely given up (unless/until I received the email verification, I might have come back) and just assumed something was seen in those texts I had put out there that characterized me as something the people on E disapproved of. That primarily because I -didn't- feel very comfortable in the doormat or shoutbox at the time due to insecurity, not because I lack patience.

I applied on March 11th and was approved on March 14th.


Now, on a side note, I think the questions and writing prompts are a wonderful idea and do lend themselves to a person's advantage. However, some of the questions asked really don't lend to the opportunity to express yourself as a role player. Answering a writing prompt does not necessarily indicate a person's style / likes in roleplaying. After all, one of my entry examples was 'characterize insanity'. To characterize anything is to identify the most telling signs / indications about it. I suppose I could have written a role playing example including an insane character, and had I done so my response would have been quite different, but it wasn't what I was thinking at the time.

O/O's in my short-lived experience are a much better place to showcase oneself. The application and introduction process is more about the person than the role player in my mind - if that makes sense.


-And... I just noticed (thankfully before I asked where to find it) the link to ' Vote on the next topic of my blog'. *Blushes* Right in front of me all this time. >.< Keep em coming, Dingo. *Smiles*

[Dingo]

I'm impressed by all the responses. I leave this and a day later so many reactions.

However, one reason to comment is to leave topics on which you want my opinion next.

[transmogrify]

When I first applied for approval I was one of the lucky guinea pigs who were not only give questions but also asked to write an 800 word short story that had to include a set list of words/terms.

It took a week for my approval to go through and by then I was fully appreciative of what it meant.

Although - then my internet died and I moved states - so I have absent for a couple of months and never started a story...still making me a newbie I guess.

[huangyuanyeshu]

When I got approved,I was thinking:that's it?only 4 days?no more questions?I'm kind of addict to answering crazy quetions.

[Autumn Sativus]

I think since this blog was written approvals have slowed down a little. Basically approval time is dependent on the impression a person makes within their intro thread. If a swarm of people come in with long intros that give the Mentors all they need, a swarm of people will get in quickly.

Currently it seems a lot of people are giving only the bare minimum, making it very difficult for the Mentors to make a decision, so approval times are slowing down. It's all dependent on the quality of the people coming in, for the most part.

[Lithos]

I think that the very first intro post applicant makes makes big impression as it should, and their posts on other threads is another thing that matters somewhat. I think that one to four days should be well enough if the introductory posts and answers have enough substance to actually show something about the posters personality.

What should delay the acceptance the most is behaviour that shows that one does not read the site rules, or care about the people within. I mean things like posting to peoples looking for games threads or posting your own and asking people to start im rping you or such before being accepted. If the people read the guidelines stickies, they do not do such things.

My bottomline is though that if someone shows to be a good addition based on their introductory post and first replies, and maybe even proves to be nice company at shoutbox and such, I do not see why acceptance should take week or longer. I like the changes that have made it faster, and believe that we all win in the end by not scaring potentially good people away.