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Author Topic: Rule Question - Listing Members  (Read 601 times)

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Offline TexasWarrenTopic starter

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Rule Question - Listing Members
« on: October 02, 2016, 08:38:00 PM »
Hello folks... I wish to know if it violates the rules for me to LIST members that have abandoned games without notice in my O/O or desire thread?

Maybe I am just in a bad mood tonight but I really have people that contact me, chat it up about a game, spend my time starting it and then they never post or reply to PMs. Maybe listing them will save others my frustration and time spent for nothing.

Tex

Offline Blythe

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2016, 08:45:18 PM »
It's fine to note if a game itself is simply inactive or dropped, but going so far as to make an actual list of 'members that have abandoned games without notice' is going a step too far, and it's invariably going to run afoul of E's civility rule. Rather too close to a blacklist that names and shames.

I understand that it is frustrating if a game or discussion you have is no longer active, especially if you were really enjoying it, but your time would be better spent seeking out people you feel will be a better fit for you & your ideas in the future.

Edit:

To clarify a bit since my initial wording was too vague, the line gets crossed specifically with

Maybe listing them will save others my frustration and time spent for nothing.

that, implying the intent is to make a list to warn people away from other members.

Simply listing a game that's gone cold is fine, but listing members with the intent to shame them and have others not RP with them is the problem.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 09:37:52 PM by Blythe »

Offline Lrrr

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2016, 12:53:26 AM »
I've had the same frustration as Texas, and although I don't want to be argumentative, I think there is something here that should be discussed in more detail.  Within the last couple of weeks I've had two DOA role plays, and it's draining away a lot of my time and energy.

I'm not a ten year veteran so I won't claim to be an expert on choosing potential RP partners.  I do have enough posts, RPs, and completed stories though, that I think I understand at least the basics of what constitutes a suitable partner and what doesn't.  To that end, I can already find out a fair number of things about potential writing partners on E before I propose a game idea to them.
  • I can read their previous posts to judge their writing skill and style.
  • I can see, on average, how many posts they make per day - although it would be much more helpful to see the average computed so it includes only posts from "Play-By-Post: XXXXXXX" forums.  Irrelevant social chatter and miscellaneous posts shouldn't be counted toward a member's actual role-playing efforts.
  • I can see in great detail which forums they visit and how long they spend there.  I haven't found this to be very useful but I suspect other members might have.
  • I can see what time of day they tend to be active.  Again, this hasn't been all that useful to me but I can see how it might be important to other members.
  • I can see their ons and offs to determine if we're compatible for the story I have in mind.
  • I can exchange PMs in an attempt to get to know them better.
One or more of these tools cover most of the things I really need to know about a potential partner - all except their commitment to a game after agreeing to start it.

I can think of several ways to create a metric which would give me a good idea of how dedicated a potential partner tends to be.  Further, I see computing that metric and displaying it below their average number of posts per day as a positive thing.

The question is not what I think, but whether staff sees such a metric as a positive or negative thing.  The argument that it's a way of encouraging members NOT to drop games before they've even posted a single reply is a good one, and when I think of how I'd use such a metric I imagine it would be much like I currently use average posts per day.

The argument that it only points out negative aspects of a member's behavior isn't as clear to me, but I admit it might be clearer to staff and other members.  In fact, if you have a logical and reasonable explanation then please, reply to this post and enlighten me.  I'm always willing to listen to new ideas presented in a rational way.

I do agree that leaving the process of providing some metric of a member's commitment to individual members who compile "black lists" is not a positive solution.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2016, 01:12:41 AM »
There are many reasons that people drop stories.  One thing that we try to remind people of is that the person on the other end of the connection is a person - not a writing machine, not some sort of contracted 'provider of content'.  We have members that have health issues, family issues, financial issues, employment issues - and all of these can and should take precedence over RP. 

This is an entertainment site.  If someone is not enjoying what they are doing, they are within their rights to stop.  In a perfect world, this would come with an explanation, but not everyone deals well with confrontation - or with someone telling them 'I don't want to write this any more.' 

Offline Lrrr

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 02:37:03 AM »
All of what you say is true.  And I agree with all of it.  But if someone is dropping 75% of the role plays they've negotiated without answering the opening post of their partner, I would like to know that before I attempt to negotiate my role play ideas with them.

While I may have sympathy for them if the reason they're dropping these stories falls outside their control, don't they have a responsibility to other members too?  Shouldn't they be saying to themselves "Gee self, we're dropping 75% of the role plays we're negotiating.  Maybe it's time we backed off a bit and waited until real life quiets down."

Keep in mind that I'm not talking about someone who occasionally ditches their partner.  That wouldn't show up in the sort of metric I'm advocating.  I'm talking about someone who chronically ditches partners.  And whatever the reason, I think it's their responsibility to recognize what's going on and take steps to correct it.  If real life is kicking them in the ass, then admitting that and backing down their commitments on E is the responsible thing to do, don't you agree?

Offline Lilias

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 04:54:22 AM »
No member has (let alone should have) to answer to any other member for how they spend their time on the site. Period.

Anyone who has been here a fair length of time has likely built a list of members they will not write with again, for whatever reasons. That is fine, as long as it remains for private use. If a friend asks for your opinion on a potential partner, and that opinion is negative, of course you can share it with them. But we will not tolerate any attempts to publicly point fingers at people who fail to live up to this or that member's standards of collaboration.

Online RedRose

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 06:47:58 AM »
  Shouldn't they be saying to themselves "Gee self, we're dropping 75% of the role plays we're negotiating.  Maybe it's time we backed off a bit and waited until real life quiets down."

 

I agree. At least warning the potential player, or find 5 seconds to send a quick pm to apologize for dropping the game. It should be possible in most cases especially if they keep coming back to E. I appreciate that, even 1 month later.

Offline Mithlomwen

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Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2016, 07:36:29 AM »
I think that people are forgetting......

Writing here is a hobby for most people.  Not a job.  When you start 'requiring' people to do things, that takes the fun and enjoyment out of it.  Most people come here to have fun, not feel as though they have to conform to other peoples' requirements. 

Yes it's frustrating when people drop stories without a word.  Yes it would be nice if everyone who does that would send some sort of explanation.  But you can't require that someone do so.  And publicly shaming them by making a 'list' of people who do so, or people you won't write with again, will do nothing to improve the situation.

That is why we encourage members to do their homework.  Do research on any potential partners.  Look at their post history, read some of their current/past stories.  See what their posting pattern is like. 

Then you can make an informed decision as to whether or not they fit into your idea of a good RP partner.   

Publicly blacklisting people is not an option.

Period. 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 08:01:09 AM by Mithlomwen »

Offline GypsyRose

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 08:39:33 AM »
Perhaps it's not really relevant, but if it weren't for a failed story that a partner disappeared from, I probably wouldn't have found a second home here, or shared in all the great stories and writing experiences that I've had.

I took the idea that came out of that *poofed* story, and put my own spin on it after a hiatus -- and it was picked up by someone who has been a wonderful writing partner and friend over the 4+ years we've been writing together, and that story is still going on.  Not only did he give me a chance, when a matrix might have well 'nixed' me at the time, but he set an example for me of the kind of writing partner that I now strive to be.

No idea is wasted, not really.  And a great writing partner for me is not necessarily a great writing partner for someone else.  When everyone here is looking for so many different things ... how can you translate that into a formula, other than individually?

When I get frustrated with online writing these days, I just try to think of all the fun I have, and have had, with all the stories that went well, for varying degrees of 'a while', and for the good connections I've made and the ones that are still out there to be made.  The partners that communicate with me, even when ending a story, or that are understanding when I need to pull back, are the ones I stay with, will come back to, and hope to write with again  -- and recommend to others.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 08:43:12 AM by GypsyRose »

Offline TexasWarrenTopic starter

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Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 09:08:53 AM »
A huge thanks to all of you who have contributed to this question. So a few things stand out to me:

1. No, don't list names of players who do not write like you want them to.
2. Yes, keep a private list, but nothing public.
3. Something along the lines of a metric would help.

I think we have a suggestion area (I will look) but could we get a system to give people "Positive" kudos that are tracked? I understand why negative won't help (now) but positive might.

Here is what I have in mind. It is a system from another RP site that I have been with since 2005 (used with permission):

Reputation Award system
Role Playing (e)Xperience Points, or RPXP, appears as green dots to the right of each post a member makes. Once you get used to the idea that the points are not necessarily about role playing, and may not have anything to do with 'experience', you'll get along just fine. Many forum-based websites have a Reputation system - 'RPXP' is what we call our Reputation system.
If you come across an excellent post, especially a game post that demonstrates high-quality role playing, please click on the reputation button and reward the poster. The reputation button is represented by tiny scales icon in the upper right of the post. We only provide the option to award positive RPXP.

Guidelines for Giving Reputation (RPXP): It is extremely counter-productive for the reputation system to give reputation for reasons other than rewarding post excellence or, rarely, commenting on inappropriate posts. Users who participate in the gratuitous inflation of reputation scores, since obviously they place little value in supporting the usefulness of the system, can be subject to having their own reputation set to zero, having all reputation they have ever given to others set to zero, and/or user infraction points. This solution is only reached in extreme cases in which members are blatantly abusing this feature.

Rules govern how much RPXP one may award, and how often one may award it:

* The amount of RPXP that can be awarded by a site member can be simply stated like this - 1 point per 100 days of membership, 1 point per 100 posts, 1 point per 1000 RPXP. This may change at Administrative discretion.
* There is a 50-point cap on how much RPXP any user can award, regardless of the above formula.
* You must have over 50 posts to award any RPXP. If under this amount, you can still use the scales to leave comments for people, but this will not result in any awarded points.
* You can award RPXP five (5) times within a 24-hour period.
* You must award RPXP to three (3) different people before you can give it to the same person again.

RPXP means different things to different people. Some members give RPXP for funny jokes, sympathy, or clever debates. Other award RPXP only for gaming excellence, and prefer it only to be awarded for that reason in return. Some members will come right out and ask you for RPXP. Others refuse to accept any at all. Keep this in mind when viewing your RPXP levels and those of others. It means different things to many, everything to a few, and nothing to some. Most recent comments are displayed on user profiles, so if you're curious about what someone's RPXP value means to them, it may be researched.

Every so often someone wants to change the system. It's not going to happen, so we suggest you acclimate yourself to it and have as much fun with the system as you care to.


By the way, if we can do this, I vote we call them SEX Points: System Elliquiy eXperience!

Tex
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 09:09:56 AM by TexasDM »

Offline GypsyRose

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 09:14:49 AM »
We already do have something like this, though it takes a bit more effort than clicking on a thumbs up --

There's a Shoutout thread in the Good and Cuddly board, and also a 'Be a Friend, Recommend a Writer' thread in the Adult Socializing forum.    It takes a little bit of effort, but it's more meaningful than any simple 'thumbs up'.

Someone with 10 'thumbs up' is no more a good indicator than someone with 4 thumbs up, particularly if the 10 is 10/50, and the 4 is 4/4, IMHO.  :-)

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 09:23:21 AM »
If you care greatly about someone's reliability read through their post history before you start writing with them. If all of their stories end with their partner posting last then maybe ask about why. If you don't like the answer don't start the story. Yeah it takes a bit of reading and effort but if it really means that much to you it shouldn't be that daunting.


Offline Rhedyn

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2016, 10:11:55 AM »
Here is what I have in mind. It is a system from another RP site that I have been with since 2005 (used with permission):

Reputation Award system
Role Playing (e)Xperience Points, or RPXP, appears as green dots to the right of each post a member makes. Once you get used to the idea that the points are not necessarily about role playing, and may not have anything to do with 'experience', you'll get along just fine. Many forum-based websites have a Reputation system - 'RPXP' is what we call our Reputation system.
If you come across an excellent post, especially a game post that demonstrates high-quality role playing, please click on the reputation button and reward the poster. The reputation button is represented by tiny scales icon in the upper right of the post. We only provide the option to award positive RPXP.

Guidelines for Giving Reputation (RPXP): It is extremely counter-productive for the reputation system to give reputation for reasons other than rewarding post excellence or, rarely, commenting on inappropriate posts. Users who participate in the gratuitous inflation of reputation scores, since obviously they place little value in supporting the usefulness of the system, can be subject to having their own reputation set to zero, having all reputation they have ever given to others set to zero, and/or user infraction points. This solution is only reached in extreme cases in which members are blatantly abusing this feature.

Rules govern how much RPXP one may award, and how often one may award it:

* The amount of RPXP that can be awarded by a site member can be simply stated like this - 1 point per 100 days of membership, 1 point per 100 posts, 1 point per 1000 RPXP. This may change at Administrative discretion.
* There is a 50-point cap on how much RPXP any user can award, regardless of the above formula.
* You must have over 50 posts to award any RPXP. If under this amount, you can still use the scales to leave comments for people, but this will not result in any awarded points.
* You can award RPXP five (5) times within a 24-hour period.
* You must award RPXP to three (3) different people before you can give it to the same person again.

RPXP means different things to different people. Some members give RPXP for funny jokes, sympathy, or clever debates. Other award RPXP only for gaming excellence, and prefer it only to be awarded for that reason in return. Some members will come right out and ask you for RPXP. Others refuse to accept any at all. Keep this in mind when viewing your RPXP levels and those of others. It means different things to many, everything to a few, and nothing to some. Most recent comments are displayed on user profiles, so if you're curious about what someone's RPXP value means to them, it may be researched.

Every so often someone wants to change the system. It's not going to happen, so we suggest you acclimate yourself to it and have as much fun with the system as you care to.


By the way, if we can do this, I vote we call them SEX Points: System Elliquiy eXperience!

Tex

My biggest concern with something like this is that it would probably create more cliques and more people feeling left out. People with low numbers of 'points' particularly new members may feel more unwelcome and set aside from long term members, much like post count was when it was visible under our avatars. If something like this were in place when I joined I know I would have felt less like I had a place here, particularly if it were being used as a judge of my worth as a roleplayer during/before any discussions had taken place. I have always found that the best way to get a feel for someone's reliability and writing is to look through their posts and O/Os, I like putting that effort in when I'm deciding whether or not to write with someone. I would also have an issue with having 'SEX' points attributed to me, it gives off completely the wrong feel for why I am here.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 10:13:05 AM by Rhedyn »

Offline Formless

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2016, 12:20:10 PM »
There's also the chance that whatever said potential partner is going through, which prevents them from communicating (Be it a real life issue or a matter of personal preference), might happen to you.

If anyone backs out from a story, drop it completely, there's a good chance something stole them away from it. I always give everyone the benefit of the doubt. And if it ever turns out that they stopped a story for no reason than its their personal decision, then so be it. A story is only as good as a writer's desire to write it. No point dwelling on the negatives.

TL;DR, Consider your partner's circumstances, as you might end up in their position oneday.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2016, 12:30:23 PM »
I've said before that role playing is like dating.  We interact with people in the socializing forums much as we would at parties and clubs.  We meet people in passing by visiting their Introduction and Role Play Request threads.  We get to know others by looking at the stories they write with others much as we discuss those we've gone out with in conversation with our friends.

A first date can lead to a more promising relationship and then on to something longer lasting.  But more often than not it can quickly become a situation where the chemistry just isn't there, no matter how much we would like it to be.

This can be frustrating and disheartening and discouraging but a lot of life is like that, too.  My advice is don't look for long term right off the bat.  Look for someone who can give you a week or two to write something short but good.  Set a goal for yourselves to tell the story in a certain number of posts by each of you.  That gives you both a time frame to work with, a sense of accomplishment and a way to get comfortable with each other that might lead to something more productive down the line.  It is also not so jarring to the psyche if it ends at the end of the story.

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2016, 04:58:18 PM »
I would also have an issue with having 'SEX' points attributed to me, it gives off completely the wrong feel for why I am here.

Yeah, this too.

Offline The Dark Raven

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2016, 08:40:17 PM »
As someone who has a horrible time getting the chance to reply to my stories, I feel that whatever list a person wants to make for their own record in private is cool.  In public is just in poor taste.  That being said, whatever any of my partners (for any reason) choose to do with our stories is fine.  Yes, my feelings are hurt when they wish to discontinue, but that is the hazard of my crazy life.  It doesn't hurt less, but I don't blame them if they want to drop because I can't fit a schedule, or don't have time to reply to a story.

I also think "sex" points is a bit ... bawdy.  I'm not here specifically for the smut.  I came to E to have the option, but have since found deeper, non-sex centric stories to be my thing.  I would be offended if "sex" points were a measure of my (or any other member's) worth here.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2016, 09:57:18 PM »
As someone who has a horrible time getting the chance to reply to my stories, I feel that whatever list a person wants to make for their own record in private is cool.  In public is just in poor taste.  That being said, whatever any of my partners (for any reason) choose to do with our stories is fine.  Yes, my feelings are hurt when they wish to discontinue, but that is the hazard of my crazy life.  It doesn't hurt less, but I don't blame them if they want to drop because I can't fit a schedule, or don't have time to reply to a story.

I also think "sex" points is a bit ... bawdy.  I'm not here specifically for the smut.  I came to E to have the option, but have since found deeper, non-sex centric stories to be my thing.  I would be offended if "sex" points were a measure of my (or any other member's) worth here.

I agree with both of these points.

I have a really messed up life dealing with my jobs, my health issues and some other things.  I feel bad when real life gets in the way of things for me or when I end up disappointing someone.  I get disappointed, too, but I can't hold that against anyone.  That would be wrong of me.

The erotic writing I do is for practice for a real life career or for entertainment for my partners.  Getting pleasure from it is a side benefit and not the purpose.  I don't do it for points. 

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Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2016, 10:06:06 AM »
As someone who has a horrible time getting the chance to reply to my stories, I feel that whatever list a person wants to make for their own record in private is cool.  In public is just in poor taste.  That being said, whatever any of my partners (for any reason) choose to do with our stories is fine.  Yes, my feelings are hurt when they wish to discontinue, but that is the hazard of my crazy life.  It doesn't hurt less, but I don't blame them if they want to drop because I can't fit a schedule, or don't have time to reply to a story.

I also think "sex" points is a bit ... bawdy.  I'm not here specifically for the smut.  I came to E to have the option, but have since found deeper, non-sex centric stories to be my thing.  I would be offended if "sex" points were a measure of my (or any other member's) worth here.
Completely agreed with this. I would feel very uncomfortable if I am somehow labelled with something like that. I'm not on E to write smut, but because I have that option if a story moves there.

As for a list. Nope. Nope. Nope. That's terrible, bad taste, naming and shaming people and it is very unfair as well. There is a real person behind a screenname and why someone stops to write is their business and none of my writing partners is required to give me a reason.  Of course it is disappointing when a story drops but  - c'est la vie.

We already do have something like this, though it takes a bit more effort than clicking on a thumbs up --

There's a Shoutout thread in the Good and Cuddly board, and also a 'Be a Friend, Recommend a Writer' thread in the Adult Socializing forum.    It takes a little bit of effort, but it's more meaningful than any simple 'thumbs up'.

Someone with 10 'thumbs up' is no more a good indicator than someone with 4 thumbs up, particularly if the 10 is 10/50, and the 4 is 4/4, IMHO.  :-)
Personally, I pay little attention to those because I know that many people do not peruse those boards at all. It's not very informative for me because I know that, for example, my writing partners generally do not use them at all. They haven't been mentioned there either (not from what I know) and they are all awesome.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 10:22:11 AM by Nicholas »

Offline GypsyRose

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2016, 10:38:53 AM »
Personally, I pay little attention to those because I know that many people do not peruse those boards at all. It's not very informative for me because I know that, for example, my writing partners generally do not use them at all. They haven't been mentioned there either (not from what I know) and they are all awesome.

Maybe you should consider mentioning them there, then. :-) 

I know I've contacted people there that I've seen recommended by people whose writing I know I like.  Plus it's a chance to share some of the awesome!

Offline TexasWarrenTopic starter

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Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2016, 10:49:00 AM »
Many thanks again for all the informative replies. I have decided to list my past games and leave it at that. It was a suggestion and I have seen others do so - makes it easier for potential partners to see my writing.  Here if you have interest.

Light and love,

Tex

Offline Blythe

Re: Rule Question - Listing Members
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2016, 11:48:51 AM »
All righty, then that seems to wrap this particular thread up. Going ahead and locking this one.