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Author Topic: Fifty Shades of Gray  (Read 3052 times)

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Offline Inkidu

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2015, 04:45:33 PM »
Shoot me now.

Oh, and as a side note: EL James flat out refuses to acknowledge, consider and/or discuss the fact that a lot of people see her "bdsm romance" as romanticizing abuse. She even blocks domestic violence victims so that they cannot contact her to discuss and explain what issues they have with her books.

Sounds like a really classy lady. :P

Offline deadmanshandTopic starter

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2015, 04:46:36 PM »
Shoot me now.

Oh, and as a side note: EL James flat out refuses to acknowledge, consider and/or discuss the fact that a lot of people see her "bdsm romance" as romanticizing abuse. She even blocks domestic violence victims so that they cannot contact her to discuss and explain what issues they have with her books.


Such a wonderful person.

Offline Lilias

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2015, 04:55:47 PM »
A personal gripe: Hollywood is full of super-sexy hunks and they cast this um... him? I realize they had to recast on a very short notice when Charlie Hunnam withdrew from the project 48 hours before the first shot, but man. (;>.<)

No career to ruin. ::)

#cynic

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2015, 05:01:56 PM »
No career to ruin. ::)

#cynic
Sad as it is, I think it would sky-rocket him among the likes of George Clooney (where he rightfully belongs).

Offline VioletPanda

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2015, 05:16:47 PM »
   As someone in 'the scene' I find the book a complete and utter disgrace...and yet...disturbingly accurate as to what happens when people aren't informed. I've been there when it was done wrong and I've been there when it's done right. Huge difference.
      I'd just like to note one thing I particularly hate about the book. Christian Grey is portrayed as someone who's 'sick' and wants to control things because there is something wrong with him when that is not always the case for Doms and Masters. It can be, but it's rare. Some people are leaders and others are followers. It's as simple as that. I can plan well, but when it comes to execution or actually giving orders, I can't do it. Just because there is someone out there who can give those orders doesn't mean that there is something wrong with them! It just means they are different!

   I was teased more than enough about my differences in school to confidently say that unless it hurts others or yourself, different should never be referred to as sick or wrong!

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2015, 05:18:33 PM »
   As someone in 'the scene' I find the book a complete and utter disgrace...and yet...disturbingly accurate as to what happens when people aren't informed. I've been there when it was done wrong and I've been there when it's done right. Huge difference.
      I'd just like to note one thing I particularly hate about the book. Christian Grey is portrayed as someone who's 'sick' and wants to control things because there is something wrong with him when that is not always the case for Doms and Masters. It can be, but it's rare. Some people are leaders and others are followers. It's as simple as that. I can plan well, but when it comes to execution or actually giving orders, I can't do it. Just because there is someone out there who can give those orders doesn't mean that there is something wrong with them! It just means they are different!

   I was teased more than enough about my differences in school to confidently say that unless it hurts others or yourself, different should never be referred to as sick or wrong!

^ this

Offline deadmanshandTopic starter

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2015, 05:24:49 PM »
LukaWolf - His kind of control is indicative of mental illness that causes harm and suffering to those exposed to it. He doesn't just give orders he needs to give orders. In the few scenes where he is not in control he either breaks down or grows violent. That is not different. It's sick. Take this from a man who has a degree in psychology specializing in behavior disorders and one who has spent significant chunks of his life helping out at women's shelter and is the son of a man who acted just like Mr. Gray.

At least in the controlling sense. There isn't enough money in the world to make me ask my mother if they were into BDSM.

Offline VioletPanda

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2015, 05:46:51 PM »
   Right right, Deadmanshand. I know his kind of control is indicative of a mental illness. I'm just saying not all Doms or Masters are like that and it's a terrible representation of BDSM. Very few are, actually.

  I even said in my first post that 'unless it hurts yourself or others it shouldn't be called sick.' He clearly is. I'm talking about people in the scene who don't have a compulsive need.

 

Offline consortium11

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2015, 06:06:41 PM »
I dislike 50 Shades... as others mentioned it's a BDSM twilight fanfiction written by someone with no experience of BDSM (and bad writing) and its success is pretty much entirely the result of luck, marketing and being the first semi-erotic novel to go over the parapet at a time when Kindles meant that one can read it without the fear of public shaming.

(Which may be a reason the film struggles; you can't exactly hide what film you're watching)

But despite being a pretty active in the BDSM scene and one of its strongest defenders (just see my posts on E) I can't find myself too bothered by it. Yes, we all know it's not a healthy or realistic portrayal of a BDSM relationship... but if anything the interest it generated actually helped keep the BDSM scene healthy because people couldn't swing a cat (or more perhaps  more aptly, spank a bottom) online during a discussion of it without having how unhealthy and unrealistic it was pointed out. And at the end of the day it's a romance novels. Romance novels basically live and die by romanticizing their subject matter as much as possible; Twilight (remember, the basis for 50 Shades) is as perfect an example of that as any.

And lets be clear, a realistic portrayal of a BDSM relationship isn't actually that sexy or exciting. Sure, the actual BDSM may be, but before and after? The build-up to real life BDSM play doesn't include eyes burning with lust, long, lingering glances, slow seductive hands running across bodies and the two participants suddenly being so overwhelmed with passion that they leap at each other... at least for me. For me it tends to include a cup of tea, a couple of biscuits and long chats about what we're going to do in a distinctly unsexy way. Now, sure, talking about what's going to happen can be pretty erotic and an excellent type of foreplay in it's own right but it can also involve long discussions about exactly what type of rope we're going to use and what knots we're going to tie in it. And the aftermath frequently features another cup of tea, yet more biscuits and a fairly boring discussion about what we liked and didn't like about it. Then factor in that if the play is with someone new to BDSM it will likely also involve a safeword being said, everything stopping and yet more tea + biscuits as one discusses what someone didn't like, why they didn't like it and if it's something they'd ever contemplate doing again or if it's a hard no before the scene may or may not continue.

50 Shades is a romanticised version of (actually somewhat mild) BDSM (with some stalking behavior thrown in for good measure). I'm pretty sure I can go through the NC and EX forums here and see even more unhealthy BDSM relationships portrayed and explained in an equally romantacised form. Hell, the entire concept of NC is basically the romantacisation taken to the extreme... while many people enjoy the fantasy of being taken without consent (it's supposedly one of the most popular amongst women) I struggle to think there's many, if any, who would enjoy the exceptionally nasty reality of it. One can of course point out that stories on E are only semi-public and not a wordwide best seller... but if one moves beyond these guarded borders to the public internet one can find equally romantacised tales, be it on Literotica, BDSMLibrary, MCStories or one any number of other places. Do we condemn all such authors as well for what they've written? After all the only real difference there is that the content in such stories is often far worse, those authors decided to publish on those websites rather than their own and they never approached a small publisher to distribute it for them.

Such thoughts also touch on my response to EL James not responding to abuse victims. On the face of it it's horrible... but what would happen if any of us who write EX or NC stories here got a PM from someone who had survived abuse and explaining all the issues they had with the post? And what if it wasn't one but dozens. A day. I like to think that we'd be receptive and patient with the first message but at what point would we just throw up our hands and say "no more"? How many times would we explain that what we write is a fantasy, not a reality and thus it's not intended or expected to be a realistic portrayal? And it is extremely difficult to protect oneself entirely from seeing such things, even on E. Yes, one can minimise the EX and NC boards so they don't appear... but that doesn't protect against reading an O&O thread that discusses them or an RP request that mentions them or threads containing such content being linked too from elsewhere.

Offline deadmanshandTopic starter

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2015, 06:10:53 PM »
   Right right, Deadmanshand. I know his kind of control is indicative of a mental illness. I'm just saying not all Doms or Masters are like that and it's a terrible representation of BDSM. Very few are, actually.

  I even said in my first post that 'unless it hurts yourself or others it shouldn't be called sick.' He clearly is. I'm talking about people in the scene who don't have a compulsive need.

 

Then you just re-iterated what everyone else was saying in an odd form. Gotcha. Your phrasing was unclear in the original post.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2015, 06:28:53 PM »
Alright, I was curious if a discussion would come up about the movie since it is being released soon. I just want to start off by saying that I have not read the book or seen the movie yet. Nor am I "very" familiar with the BDSM lifestyle. I pretty much have very limited information about a BDSM lifestyle. Considering I have not read the book, I was curious about a few things and wondering if someone who has read the book if I have heard right. I am not here to argue for the book (or against it really), I was just wondering if someone could help me understand some things.

I have heard (and I can see in this post), that the book does not appropriately convey what BDSM is really about. Which, I think it is hard to properly convey BDSM if they are not intimate and familiar with it. So from other people, I have heard the outrage of how the book "paints" BDSM in an almost "trendy" light now. How it is all "fun" and "sexy", "sensual" and such. So one person doesn't have to answer all of these questions (or even in this forum), I am just trying to gather some information. Once again, I am only relaying information I have read elsewhere (that other people have written) or what I have heard form others.

1. First off, how is the writing? Does it seem to be kind of lazily mashed together or is it written well? How are the sex scenes written? Going into detail or just glazing over aspects? Does it show the emotions of the two (Anastasia and Christian) during sex or is it just generic overview? Is it really just "porn" with a little bit of relationship or is it trying to describe a "true"(what the author thinks is true that is) BDSM relationship?
2. Does the writer portray the characters relationship as "normal" according to BDSM? I have read that it is very abusive instead, pretty much being domestic abuse but considered "Okay" by BDSM "standards." He doesn't help her after sex, comforting her does he? Is that something that is normally done in a BDSM relationship and just not in this book?  To transition out of the "act"? (Sorry if that is not the right word)
3. Another thing I have read elsewhere is the fact that Christian ignores the safe word that is established. That he does not stop, instead just keeps going and ignoring her. Even with my limited knowledge of BDSM, I know that a safe word is certainly key.
4. Does he basically blackmail her into signing a contract? And he preys on the fact that she is a virgin and inexperienced? 
5. Is Anastasia really fearful of him? Fearful that he will hurt her because Christian gets angry easily?
6. Does he ever "hit" her? I mean, something either in the act of sex or just otherwise? (Not like spanking but like an actual hit) Does it seem like domestic abuse, or does it just seem (to people unfamiliar with BDSM) as "rough sex"?
7. Does he use alcohol to basically make her unable to consent? Well, I guess know that she is consenting?

I am not in a BDSM relationship, nor have I ever been in that lifestyle. So I don't want to say that I know how things are. I certainly don't. I have only collected pieces of information from reading on it and being on here. If anyone who has read the book (or seen the movie) could just help me out, that would be great (: Someone can send me a PM to answer these questions or they can be answered in the post.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2015, 06:37:15 PM »
Alright, I was curious if a discussion would come up about the movie since it is being released soon. I just want to start off by saying that I have not read the book or seen the movie yet. Nor am I "very" familiar with the BDSM lifestyle. I pretty much have very limited information about a BDSM lifestyle. Considering I have not read the book, I was curious about a few things and wondering if someone who has read the book if I have heard right. I am not here to argue for the book (or against it really), I was just wondering if someone could help me understand some things.

I have heard (and I can see in this post), that the book does not appropriately convey what BDSM is really about. Which, I think it is hard to properly convey BDSM if they are not intimate and familiar with it. So from other people, I have heard the outrage of how the book "paints" BDSM in an almost "trendy" light now. How it is all "fun" and "sexy", "sensual" and such. So one person doesn't have to answer all of these questions (or even in this forum), I am just trying to gather some information. Once again, I am only relaying information I have read elsewhere (that other people have written) or what I have heard form others.

1. First off, how is the writing? Does it seem to be kind of lazily mashed together or is it written well? How are the sex scenes written? Going into detail or just glazing over aspects? Does it show the emotions of the two (Anastasia and Christian) during sex or is it just generic overview? Is it really just "porn" with a little bit of relationship or is it trying to describe a "true"(what the author thinks is true that is) BDSM relationship?
2. Does the writer portray the characters relationship as "normal" according to BDSM? I have read that it is very abusive instead, pretty much being domestic abuse but considered "Okay" by BDSM "standards." He doesn't help her after sex, comforting her does he? Is that something that is normally done in a BDSM relationship and just not in this book?  To transition out of the "act"? (Sorry if that is not the right word)
3. Another thing I have read elsewhere is the fact that Christian ignores the safe word that is established. That he does not stop, instead just keeps going and ignoring her. Even with my limited knowledge of BDSM, I know that a safe word is certainly key.
4. Does he basically blackmail her into signing a contract? And he preys on the fact that she is a virgin and inexperienced? 
5. Is Anastasia really fearful of him? Fearful that he will hurt her because Christian gets angry easily?
6. Does he ever "hit" her? I mean, something either in the act of sex or just otherwise? (Not like spanking but like an actual hit) Does it seem like domestic abuse, or does it just seem (to people unfamiliar with BDSM) as "rough sex"?
7. Does he use alcohol to basically make her unable to consent? Well, I guess know that she is consenting?

I am not in a BDSM relationship, nor have I ever been in that lifestyle. So I don't want to say that I know how things are. I certainly don't. I have only collected pieces of information from reading on it and being on here. If anyone who has read the book (or seen the movie) could just help me out, that would be great (: Someone can send me a PM to answer these questions or they can be answered in the post.

1. It's rushed and lazy. Clearly you can tell this woman just wanted to make it smut - which is fine. Though it reminded me of how bad I was at writing smut when I was 13.
2. No, its not normal. But its not normal for a healthy relationship either. However, there are some men in the community that are like this and those are the ones you want to watch out for.
3. He does ignore the safe word - though I forgot which scene it was exactly
4. He loves that she's inexperienced, most of this stems from his unhealthy BDSM relationship he had with another woman when he was younger. She basically preyed off his innocence. As for the contract - I don't remember if it was blackmail or not, but I do think he kept wooing her with gifts to get her to that point. But she followed because she was curious.
5. There are times where she tries to avoid him, but always seems to come back to him.
6. No...he does not hit her - he does yell a lot though (mostly when he thinks she's done something stupid, correct me if i'm wrong)
7. This one I don't remember.

This is just my take however.

Offline deadmanshandTopic starter

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2015, 06:42:20 PM »
Let me start off by saying that there is not a single sensual thing in these books but I'll do my best to answer you point for point.

1. The writing is Twilight level awful. Just terrible. Full of euphemisms and cliches and completely lacking in anything resembling emotion. I would be ashamed to write something that terrible here. It's trying to be mommy porn. It's not even trying to represent a real bdsm relationship.

2. This book has nothing in common with a real relationship of any kind outside of abuser-victim relationship. There is no informed consent nor aftercare. There is no respect at all for the sub. None.

3. See number two.

4. Manipulates. Not blackmails.

5. Yes.

6. I'm not sure he really hits her outside of sex but the sex just comes off as abusive. Not rough. Not bdsm. Just abusive. Plus he rapes her while she kicks at him and screams no but it's okay because she enjoys it.

7. Don't remember on that one. Sorry.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2015, 07:02:52 PM »

1. First off, how is the writing? Does it seem to be kind of lazily mashed together or is it written well? How are the sex scenes written? Going into detail or just glazing over aspects? Does it show the emotions of the two (Anastasia and Christian) during sex or is it just generic overview? Is it really just "porn" with a little bit of relationship or is it trying to describe a "true"(what the author thinks is true that is) BDSM relationship?

The writing is horrible. Think 5th grade reading level.  Anastasia has internal conversations with her subconscious and her 'inner goddess' (euphemism for her vagina). She uses the phrase 'oh my' more than George Takei. Let's not even discuss the use of 'shades of' throughout the whole disaster.

The sex scenes are comical at best. Not a lot of nitty gritty detail. Somewhat unrealistic - you know, the usual 'he's hung like a horse' and Anastasia is surprisingly able to take him ramming in with no warm up the very first time, her only reaction being an "ARRGH!" No descriptions of emotions during sex. Matter of fact, what emotions are written about in the book tend to be Anastasia's (and Christian is ignoring them).


Quote
2. Does the writer portray the characters relationship as "normal" according to BDSM? I have read that it is very abusive instead, pretty much being domestic abuse but considered "Okay" by BDSM "standards." He doesn't help her after sex, comforting her does he? Is that something that is normally done in a BDSM relationship and just not in this book?  To transition out of the "act"? (Sorry if that is not the right word)

She actually writes it that Christian's lifestyle is due to being messed up as a child and having him a sub to a much older woman when he was a teen. The impression the book gives is that anyone who is into BDSM is messed up, most likely due to something horrible that happened to them as a child.

No, he doesn't help her after sex. He does not comfort her afterwards. In fact, it is written into the book that the only thing that matters to him is HIS needs and wants.


Quote
3. Another thing I have read elsewhere is the fact that Christian ignores the safe word that is established. That he does not stop, instead just keeps going and ignoring her. Even with my limited knowledge of BDSM, I know that a safe word is certainly key.

She never used the safe word (at least not in the first book. I couldn't force myself to read the last two books). But Christian does ignore he every time she tells him she didn't like what he does/did. He ignores anything she says that doesn't go along with his likes/dislikes. He ignores her request for distance.

Quote
4. Does he basically blackmail her into signing a contract? And he preys on the fact that she is a virgin and inexperienced?


There was no blackmail that I can remember. He just kept pushing and pushing and pushing for her to sign. He did not want to give her time to think on the whole situation. And he was annoyed that she was a virgin.

Quote
5. Is Anastasia really fearful of him? Fearful that he will hurt her because Christian gets angry easily?

There are several points in the book that Anastasia has thoughts of being scared of Christian. She even uses the word "abused".

Quote
6. Does he ever "hit" her? I mean, something either in the act of sex or just otherwise? (Not like spanking but like an actual hit) Does it seem like domestic abuse, or does it just seem (to people unfamiliar with BDSM) as "rough sex"?

Let's just show some things,

Quote
What did I say Id do to you if you rolled your eyes at me again? Shit. He sits down on the edge of the bed. Come here, he says softly. I blanch. Jeez hes serious. I sit staring at him completely immobile. I havent signed, I whisper. I told you what Id do. Im a man of my word. Im going to spank you, and then Im going to fuck you very quick and very hard.

My insides practically contort with potent, needy, liquid, desire. [...] Should I run? [...]  Do I let him do this or do I say no, and then thats it? Because I know it will be over if I say no.
[/i]

Quote
He places his hand on my naked behind, softly fondling me, stroking round and round with his flat palm. And then his hand is no longer there and he hits me hard. Ow! My eyes spring open in response to the pain, and I try to rise, but his hand moves between my shoulder blades keeping me down. He caresses me again where hes hit me, and his breathings changed its louder, harsher. He hits me again and again, quickly in succession. Holy fuck it hurts. I make no sound, my face screwed up against the pain. I try and wriggle away from the blows spurred on by adrenaline spiking and coursing through my body.

Quote
He hits me again this is getting harder to take. My face hurts, its screwed up so tight. He strokes me gently and then the blow comes. I cry out again. No one to hear you, baby, just me. And he hits me again and again. From somewhere deep inside, I want to beg him to stop. But I dont. I dont want to give him the satisfaction. He continues the unrelenting rhythm. I cry out six more times. Eighteen slaps in total.

Quote
Enough, he breathes hoarsely. Well done, Anastasia. Now Im going to fuck you.

Now, she is not a bottom. She does not like pain. She does not like punishment. She is not submissive. The book has been clear on this clear up to this point. This is a description of a woman being beaten. Let's look at him. He ignores the fact that she is not a bottom, does not like pain, does not like punishment and is not submissive. No No #1. He does not check in with her while spanking her. No No #2. He does not do any warm up. No No #3. His technique is horrible. Anastasia is not getting anything out of this except pain.



Quote
7. Does he use alcohol to basically make her unable to consent? Well, I guess know that she is consenting?


Pretty much.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:05:11 PM by Iniquitous Opheliac »

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2015, 07:07:55 PM »
@Iniquitous Opheliac: Nice summary.

I also want to say that his lack of aftercare made me so mad. Thats something that I forgot - its been awhile seen I read the book.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2015, 07:08:38 PM »
This link takes a few quotes directly from the book,  showing how abusive Christian is. 

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2015, 07:12:07 PM »
I want to know why the writer wrote him that way... and why so many women found him attractive (I was one of them) But after reading the book through twice, I was like hmmm

Anyone have any theories?

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2015, 07:18:48 PM »
Because the line between a Dom and asshole is pretty thin and fine (and not every Dom dances on it with the grace of a Russian primaballerina).

Because John in 9 1/2 weeks was the same kind of manipulative asshole and apparently it is now rooted in popular culture that Dom = manipulative abusive jerk.

Since it is supposed to be Edward / Bella fanfiction, I can only assume the inspiration came from there. Especially for the unhealthy dependence on the man.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2015, 07:22:20 PM »
I haven't read the books (don't plan to), and I won't be seeing the movie(s). 

It was originally written as a Twilight fan fiction, so I would imagine part of it (and I'm just guessing on this) was she had originally modeled the character after a vampire or a werewolf....or what she thought one might be like. 

My guess would be that when she decided to make it a mainstream novel, she modified Christian a little bit.  It seems like she took a very limited knowledge of BDSM and wrote what she thought a Dom would be like, and perhaps used what she thought would be sexy as a guide. 


Offline Beautiful Mystery

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2015, 07:24:13 PM »
la dame en noir, deadmanshand, Iniquitous Opheliac and Mithlomwen,

I would just like to thank you for taking the time to respond and answer my questions. I have been debating about reading the book (Just to see if it is really that bad and check if what I heard was right). I was curious as to if things were that bad in the book or if people were just exaggerating a bit. I had already formed a opinion when it first came out. I really didn't want to read it (before I found out it was Twilight fanfic) and figured I could find a lot of other "erotica" online. But since I am not versed in BDSM, I wanted someone who was more familiar with it to explain to me. Because those quotes? That seems to be too far in my opinion. But I also don't know the BDSM lifestyle and I can't tell what is used and what isn't and to what extent.

I want to know why the writer wrote him that way... and why so many women found him attractive (I was one of them) But after reading the book through twice, I was like hmmm

Anyone have any theories?

I think, perhaps it is the fact that he is a man in power and is supposed to be very attractive. The man who has it all. Looks, money, power and such. That appeals to some women. And I guess it is supposed to be "sexy" to be "dominated" by a guy like that. Shrugs That is what I think. Then again, I am just saying what I see from the outside haha xD

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2015, 07:30:49 PM »
I don't normally do things like this but I have had so many women shove this book in my face and talk about how dreamy stalker-abuser Christian Gray is that I am forced to. The earliest reviews of the movie are in and critics consensus is - drum roll - that is the Worst Movie They Have Ever Seen! God that feels good to type! Now I know that the movie will make money based off of the legions of people who can't differentiate between abuse and love and think that BDSM means owning another person but it's something at least.

Yes.. its like you read my mind....stop doing that. - _ - I don't like people in my mind.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:34:38 PM by Lustful Bride »

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2015, 07:32:03 PM »
Yeah, I guess the idea of a wealthy man who isn't half bad looking and wants you however he wants you...is hot.

Which is why I spend most of my time in the NC solo forums.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2015, 07:35:57 PM »
He was wrote that way because James didn't bother to research anything about the BDSM lifestyle before sitting down to write..

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #73 on: February 12, 2015, 07:38:50 PM »
It just feels like she was not connecting them as characters. But it was poorly written afterall.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #74 on: February 12, 2015, 07:40:47 PM »
Maybe she was writing her fantasy? As in she wanted a guy like this to do those things to her? It could be a reason why she didn't research BDSM, just went on what she thought was BDSM in her fantasy. But it is fiction. No idea lol