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Author Topic: Fifty Shades of Gray  (Read 3071 times)

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Online Lilias

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #125 on: February 13, 2015, 01:52:40 PM »
When the trilogy was everywhere and our local bookstore had built an elaborate shrine display for it, I was tempted to leave notes with E's url under the books every time I passed by. Honest.

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #126 on: February 13, 2015, 02:38:58 PM »
When the trilogy was everywhere and our local bookstore had built an elaborate shrine display for it, I was tempted to leave notes with E's url under the books every time I passed by. Honest.
That's a pretty fun idea. :D

Offline Oniya

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #127 on: February 13, 2015, 03:08:24 PM »
When the trilogy was everywhere and our local bookstore had built an elaborate shrine display for it, I was tempted to leave notes with E's url under the books every time I passed by. Honest.

'Better writing.  Better sex.  For free.  Elliquiy.com.'

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #128 on: February 13, 2015, 03:35:14 PM »
Like twilight...which apparently I am supposed to be all over because I own a uterus.

Can I just take a brief moment to point out just how brilliant this sounds? x) 'I own a uterus' is just.. It sort of sounds like you can get them in any general appliance story! xD

Anyways, I'm just going to be 'that person' who has nothing new and interesting to bring to the table, and just say that 50 Shades can go stick itself in a place where the sun doesn't shine and no one will ever find it. It's sort of funny how this book as suddenly changed how people react when I express my personal interest in BDSM: Now people who would have otherwise been offended by this pretend they 'understand' and often even try to contribute to the conversation by saying things that now leave me as puzzled and confounded as they once were. Apparently bondage is now all about rape-fantasies and S&M is all about people who dream about getting beaten up at random - What the hell? For the first time even I kind of wish people would just go back to being prejudiced morons rather than misinformed morons!

And like many others have already said, the quality alone is.. I mean, from all that I've read of it, it's painfully mediocre at it's best. It's not bad enough to be unintentionally funny, it's not good enough to ever really be interesting. It's just.. There! It's as middle of the line as it gets!

An overly simple and bland story based on an already fairly common fantasy, written by an author who didn't bother to do any meaningful research into the source material other than perhaps go through XHamsters top-3 BDSM videos. The sex is dry and uninspired and anything outside of that keeps walking on the border between 'Dull' and 'Mildly disturbing'. It even to some extend portrays actual BDSM enthusiasts as being unsympathetic, cruel men focusing entirely on their own desires, or overly submissive women, both during sex and in general.

Like I said: I have nothing new to add. Just feels good to get this off my chest. ^.^

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #129 on: February 13, 2015, 03:55:36 PM »
There was also a disclaimer in the book that someone here shared. We want to warn people before they read or engage in something that can or is extreme. This does not mean I condone abuse in real life or in form and I'm not sure why so many seem to think this is how I'm acting. From what I can tell people are mad at the book because it's being sold to the masses, not because of whats inside. Players on here can think of far worse things and no one would get so up in the air because we're all supposed to know better right?

I do not live an abusive life with my boyfriend and I do not want to. But when I come to E, I play out awful desires...does this mean I'm just as bad as the woman who wrote the book?

I just don't get it.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #130 on: February 13, 2015, 04:04:52 PM »
There was also a disclaimer in the book that someone here shared. We want to warn people before they read or engage in something that can or is extreme. This does not mean I condone abuse in real life or in form and I'm not sure why so many seem to think this is how I'm acting. From what I can tell people are mad at the book because it's being sold to the masses, not because of whats inside. Players on here can think of far worse things and no one would get so up in the air because we're all supposed to know better right?

I do not live an abusive life with my boyfriend and I do not want to. But when I come to E, I play out awful desires...does this mean I'm just as bad as the woman who wrote the book?

I just don't get it.

Well, it's not so much the fact that she wrote stuff like that - Most of us here are likely guilty of writing stuff that would be considered (if not illegal) morally/ethically questionable. The thing is: When I play a story in which I write about an abusive Dom in a BDSM relationship I don't actually try to give people the idea that this is how people who engage in the sexual practices I describe willingly live their life. I don't depict people who participate in BDSM as being generally abusive.

She should do a better job of pointing out that she is basing the characters on nothing rather than give it this weird air of believability to the general 'The missionary position is just fine!'-public. Our threads here on E aren't open to the general public, and we're not a big enough outlet for anything we write to really be representing any specific group - But this book is a bestseller! People buy into the fiction. It's like 4Chan but in real life - If someone says that humans are not really supposed to be breathing, it's just a lie from the government, 3/10 readers are going to start holding their breath.

BDSM enthusiasts suddenly face a vocal minority of people who think they know what they're talking about based on a work of fiction written by someone who has fantasized about the most basic concepts of the art mixed with various common rape-fantasies.

I'll defend this books right to be published to the ends of the earth - But I'll also defend all the justified hate.

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #131 on: February 13, 2015, 04:13:07 PM »
I have a few friends that hate the books and I don't try to make them like it. They have their reasons and I understand why. But what I don't get is that there is hate coming from a few people towards those that are just pointing out things like 50 shades. Whether its teenage sex and romance geared at adults, Spartacus, 300, and Game of Thrones. We can't assume everyone will know the difference between fantasy and real life, but we can sure hope that they're smart enough.

Its like when people find some reason to blame video games or music for the reason someone decided to go on a murdering rampage and that these types of media forces audiences to bend at their will. If this was the case, we would all be insane.

I was in love with American Psycho and I love Christian Bale's character - does that make me crave abuse?

And I think a few have ignored that I have publicly announced that I have been in the community ACTIVELY for years now. I have had the D/s relationship and some of the doms that wanted to work with me had a different agenda. Some are abusive and some want to control everything. And then there are those that understand that submissives have a say in everything and have the ability to leave.

BDSM does not equal a possible abusive relationship. An abusive relationship starts with an abusive person. But since such a risky subculture was linked, now everyone wants to get upset and trust me I get why.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 04:31:11 PM by la dame en noir »

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #132 on: February 13, 2015, 04:14:53 PM »
Something else to keep in mind is that if you completely strip away the BDSM aspect of the books... completely and totally ignore that part and just focus on the bits that could happen in any vanilla relationship... it's still fucking abuse. He stalks her. He buys her an expensive first edition print of a classic book, but then the note he writes to her is a line where the main character of the book is talking about being raped by her stalker.

And then it gets passed off as romantic.

And people get all fluttery and swoony and "I wish my man were like that".

No. You don't. You'd be calling the cops trying to report him for stalking and threatening behavior.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #133 on: February 13, 2015, 04:18:49 PM »
To me, the real cause for concern is why some people (women) are finding the themes in this book to be alluring in a romantic and desirable way.  Not the issue of 50 Shades itself - because if everyone's sense of romance mirrored our own, then 50 Shades would not have attained such mainstream appeal.

Clearly the average public's sense of romance evolved in an unhealthy way prior to 50 Shades' release.  50 Shades simply tapped into that market - and capitalized on it.

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #134 on: February 13, 2015, 04:23:22 PM »
Yes - it is abuse and I admit that. But someone you throw in a sexual element and it becomes alluring. There are times when I want a big powerful man to cave-man me(a term I randomly generated in my head). But I know that is not something that is normal and people should engage in.

I forgot who posted this but I want to say that E is not the only source for erotica/bdsm/extreme etc. This just seems to be the only site that has you go through a process before you're allowed to fully access anything. So people could already be looking for these kinds of things before 50 shades was even made popular.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #135 on: February 13, 2015, 04:27:25 PM »
I have a few friends that hate the books and I don't try to make them like it. They have their reasons and I understand why. But what I don't get is that there is hate coming from a few people towards those that are just pointing out things like 50 shades. Whether its teenage sex and romance geared at adults, Spartacus, 300, and Game of Thrones. We can't assume everyone will know the difference between fantasy and real life, but we can sure hope that they're smart enough.

Its like when people find some reason to blame video games or music for the reason someone decided to go on a murdering rampage and that these types of media forces audiences to bend at their will. If this was the case, we would all be insane.

I was in love with American Psycho and I love Christian Bale's character - does that make me crave abuse?

And I think a few have ignored that I have publicly announced that I have been in the community ACTIVELY for years now. I have had the D/s relationship and some of the doms that wanted to work with me had a different agenda. Some are abusive and some want to control everything. And then there are those that understand that submissives have a say in everything and have the ability to leave.

BDSM does not equal a possible abusive relationship. An abusive relationship starts with an abusive person. But since such a risky scene and linked, now everyone wants to get upset and trust me I get why.

I crave violence - It's a fantasy, and I play a lot of video games to satisfy these tendencies. Would I ever dream of committing to a violent act? No! Hell no!

Do you crave abuse? Maybe you do - But not actual abuse, but the flirtatious idea/fantasy of it. You don't have to want to get hurt to think about it. Most people like fantasizing about things that they'd never commit to in real life. We get cravings to write/watch/talk about such things to satisfy our curiosity in a safe manner.

However, when you watch Batman or play Mass Effect you're constantly aware that this doesn't portray the real world, and when people here write stories they know this as well. But with a book like this there will always be a vocal minority of misinformed people who think this is a thing, and people who think stalking is a very intense way of flirting. Worse than this, there are women talking about stuff like this, publicly going into detail about how they would love a man like that - And there are plenty of psychos out there who will happily give them what they might have thought they wanted..

I guess I might be going too far, but.. Well, stories like that aren't exactly uncommon.

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #136 on: February 13, 2015, 04:29:59 PM »
Just like apparently rape fantasies are the most common amongst women.

And can we talk about how abusive the relationship is between Harley Quinn and Joker? But everyone loves them!


I think the books are bad >.> But I read them because it humored me.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #137 on: February 13, 2015, 04:33:35 PM »
I'm just going to put it out there that I got disturbed by this sort of thing back with Twilight (a book without any sex at all) - not just because of the insane popularity of a book that a high-schooler could write, not because of the fact that it nerfed two of the most classic supernatural monsters, but the whole 'Edward/Jacob is sooooo dreamy!' thing.  That was a book written for and marketed to the impressionable young-adult market.  I actually sat down with the little Oni and explained to her why Edward was creepy as all hell, and what to do if a boy ever acted like that to her.  (She still hasn't read it, and shows no interest in it, but her classmates were all 'Team Edward 4 Life!' so I did that whole 'parenting thing.')

(With the Harley Quinn/Joker dynamic:  Yes, they are abusive and sometimes it goes both ways, but anyone with the slightest familiarity with those two knows that they have so many loose screws, they could open a hardware store.)

Offline Cycle

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #138 on: February 13, 2015, 04:35:34 PM »
I'm not sure why so many seem to think this is how I'm acting.

I think I am noticing a pattern and correct me if I am wrong. 

To be clear:  le dame en noir, the criticism I (and probably others) have addressed toward 50SoG are not directed towards you.

As for the criticism itself, I thought I was clear.  It isn't about the author's right to write whatever fantasies she wishes to indulge in.  It is about her, and others, efforts to portray, convey, and sell the book as a romance--as something that is right, something that should be sought after, and something that people should allow to be done to themselves because it is "love." 

It isn't.

It's not love.

It's not romance.

No one should allow anyone to do such things to them under the guise of a loving or romantic relationship.

But someone will fall victim to a predator because of it.


Why the authors and merchants are marketing 50 SoG this way, and feeding the frenzy, is obvious: money.  Inexperienced and bored/lonely people are easy to exploit.  And that is what I see happening.  And that is what I find so distasteful.


Offline la dame en noir

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #139 on: February 13, 2015, 04:37:55 PM »
OH man the first time I read the book I pointed out all of its flaws and how crazy Christian was written. I know its not love. But I know its not my story either.

And I have to agree...Money is the driver here.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #140 on: February 13, 2015, 04:40:13 PM »
Why the authors and merchants are marketing 50 SoG this way, and feeding the frenzy, is obvious: money.  Inexperienced and bored/lonely people are easy to exploit.  And that is what I see happening.  And that is what I find so distasteful.

What if there are genuinely people out there who are into the fantasy of romance that involves abuse?  Do we have the moral authority to tell them that it's not healthy to view romance as abusive? 

Obviously I think it's wrong but if it floats their boat, that's that.

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #141 on: February 13, 2015, 04:43:50 PM »
And can we talk about how abusive the relationship is between Harley Quinn and Joker? But everyone loves them

I would happily talk all day about this much more interesting relationship. Biggest problem though is that it isn't consistent.

Offline Cycle

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #142 on: February 13, 2015, 04:48:12 PM »
What if there are genuinely people out there who are into the fantasy of romance that involves abuse?  Do we have the moral authority to tell them that it's not healthy to view romance as abusive? 

I highlighted the key word:  fantasy.

If a woman wants to enjoy a fantasy of being tied up and raped, I would not consider that morally wrong.

But if a woman tries to make money by hold up an image to people who crave love that to truly be loved--as in, no longer a fantasy but reality--you should allow yourself to be raped, beaten, and stalked, then yes, I do consider that morally wrong.


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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #143 on: February 13, 2015, 04:57:27 PM »
So would the solution be to censor 50 Shades?  Women who have a mature understanding of love should be able to enjoy the fantasy of romance with abuse if they so choose, so I do think the series has a niche (say among married women with dulling sex lives).

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #144 on: February 13, 2015, 05:08:18 PM »
So would the solution be to censor 50 Shades?  Women who have a mature understanding of love should be able to enjoy the fantasy of romance with abuse if they so choose, so I do think the series has a niche (say among married women with dulling sex lives).
Nope, censorship is never the answer.

Offline Cycle

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #145 on: February 13, 2015, 06:59:53 PM »
So would the solution be to censor 50 Shades?

It isn't about the author's right to write whatever fantasies she wishes to indulge in. 

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Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #146 on: February 13, 2015, 07:03:47 PM »

Well then, that's interesting.

What is the author's right then?

Offline deadmanshandTopic starter

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #147 on: February 13, 2015, 07:30:13 PM »
Okay since I can't just seem to delete my own thread can I ask someone to lock this? Or mayhaps for people to start their own thread to argue about this bullshit in? Apparently no one seemed to care that I meant for this to be a lighthearted topic in their need to argue about whose view on things was the Most Superiorist but could you at least do it somewhere where it's not going to ping on my unread posts page?

And, before anyone says anything, yes. This sounds rude. But I honestly have no fucks to give at the moment. If people cannot respect my wishes I feel no need to respect anyone else's.

Offline Blythe

Re: Fifty Shades of Gray
« Reply #148 on: February 13, 2015, 07:31:12 PM »
Okay since I can't just seem to delete my own thread can I ask someone to lock this?

Thread locked.