Dragon Age Inquisition

[LaLu]

Did the final battle glitch for anyone else? It's happened twice now and I'm getting completely pissed off. The first time it glitched at just 1 HP left....now I'm on 0 and it glitched again. *Sobs*

[zemo8801]

That's has happened to me in multiplayer last night so I had to back out to get it running again

[Inkidu]

Honestly, having taken a couple of weeks to look at my experience, it's probably the last Bioware game I really play. I might pick up anything else if it hits the bargain bin, but gone are the days of waiting for them to release games.

The single player was full of MMORPG-style busywork. The areas were open, but kind of hollow of anything meaningful or poorly designed in both terms of content and traveling around in them. Making it feel really disjointed in the processes, like an Elder Scrolls knockoff.

The story was just one giant missed opportunity. You head the Inquisition. Something that could have done a lot more than stop two conflicts (rather unsatisfying on the one they set up previously too). However they leashed you in to stopping one thing, which was pretty decent, but the stuff you're doing most of the time just doesn't compare. Would not have minded another gather-army thing because it made sense. Your moral and sociopolitical choices are at an all-time low for a Bioware game, especially for an organization dubbing itself the Inquisition. It's almost insulting. The only mechanic that enforces the story and vice versa is really the mark and closing fade rifts gets old quick. Bioware needs to better learn how to integrate mechanics and story. 

The ending to the story was not satisfying and it was worse than ME 3 structurally (which we all know held up until the last 30 seconds, though I'm not nearly as angry at it as the people at large myself) and worse than ME 1 in terms of payout, far worse than ME 1.

I didn't play the multiplayer, but every game that has a multiplayer always has to divert the manpower from somewhere else. So I think if they had skipped trying to put in a multiplayer (like every developer and his or her brother these days) they might have hopefully been able to make an incredibly strong single player game. Still woulda', coulda', shoulda'.

The game is good, fun at times, skull-numbingly boring at others, but I just don't think Bioware have made anything close to a great game. It certainly hasn't restored my faith in the company.

Aside from this though: I'm glad so many sexualities were given as romance options in Inquisition, but generally the most options came in for the straight-female inquisitors. :\

Still better than the stupid insensitivity that was having everyone be bi.

[Nadir]

Aside from this though: I'm glad so many sexualities were given as romance options in Inquisition, but generally the most options came in for the straight-female inquisitors. :\

Still better than the stupid insensitivity that was having everyone be bi.

I wouldn't call it "stupid insensitivity" - reading the lore, you get none of the sexual repression that would make heterosexuality the norm. In Thedas, no sexuality is stigmatised more than any others.

Also, apparently Cullen and Solas were meant to be bisexual - they went so far in the development the audio files for the romances as well as some banter is in the game files, but they decided to remove the triggers that open those trees up.

[Inkidu]

I wouldn't call it "stupid insensitivity" - reading the lore, you get none of the sexual repression that would make heterosexuality the norm. In Thedas, no sexuality is stigmatised more than any others.

Also, apparently Cullen and Solas were meant to be bisexual - they went so far in the development the audio files for the romances as well as some banter is in the game files, but they decided to remove the triggers that open those trees up.

In as much as the lore doesn't actually cover it. It's less homosexuality is wrong, and more homosexuality is unproductive, but still, though social norms do kind of inform how the sexualties are treated they don't change what people are, and having everyone bi is just as insensitive as them all being straight or homosexual. Generally it's lazy writing more than anything else. 

[Nadir]

No, there is lore that discusses sexuality very plainly in Inquisition.

What I find most interesting is that, despite the lack of open discussion on matters of human sexuality, there is commonality to be found on the subject in all Andrastian lands. Typically, ones sexual habits are considered natural and separate from matters of procreation, and only among the nobility, where procreation involves issues of inheritance and the union of powerful families, is it considered of vital importance. Yet, even there, a noble who has done their duty to the family might be allowed to pursue their own sexual interests without raising eyebrows. The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles, but actively encouraged with favored slaves. Nowhere is it forbidden, and sex of any kind is only considered worthy of judgement when taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye.

-From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar by Brother Genitivi

[Inkidu]

No, there is lore that discusses sexuality very plainly in Inquisition.

Still, ultimately everyone being bi is just lazy writing. :\

[Nadir]

And I disagree.

It's ultimately comes down to - I play games for escapism. I want to romance who I want without having to be forced to play female or male. I don't want the choices to be gated, because a skilled writer can make it work.

[Inkidu]

And I disagree.

Well, why?

[Nadir]

Giving your players the ability to choose isn't lazy, it usually results in a lot more work on the writer's part. Lazy writing would be gating all the romances.

[Inkidu]

Giving your players the ability to choose isn't lazy, it usually results in a lot more work on the writer's part. Lazy writing would be gating all the romances.

Ah, well I approach it differently then.

I consider it lazy just to make everyone bisexual just so the player can pick whatever they want. That's choice, and in a game it makes sense I suppose, but from a writing standpoint it is rather unrealistic even given Thedas's own norms and mores. Just because homosexuality isn't frowned upon doesn't mean every character is bi just because it's seen as okay. It takes away from a character's uniqueness. Resulting in weaker characters.

[Nadir]

Which is exactly how I feel in all the hetro games, so yeah, I get where you're coming from - but understand that there are a lot more games where having the option just isn't there. You don't get to say "hey, I actually would like a same sex relationship" in the vast majority of games. Having that standard being held up in basically the one game franchise that allows bisexuality is ridiculous and frustrating. I'm curious to know if you voice the same complaints in games where heterosexuality is the dominant sexual preference. Do you count it as lazy writing then?

I'd be very happy if there was certain things you had to do in a very certain time to be able to have romances with specific characters, like how they handled the foursome in DA1. And exactly the way they were planning to do "make your Inquisitor the Grand PooBah of the Chantry" (yes I forgot the official title. Whatever they call their pope) outcome. They were planning to make it an option, with it being twice as difficult for male characters and twice again as difficult for a qunari. I'm not asking for easy. I'm asking for choice.

[Inkidu]

Which is exactly how I feel in all the hetro games, so yeah, I get where you're coming from - but understand that there are a lot more games where having the option just isn't there. You don't get to say "hey, I actually would like a same sex relationship" in the vast majority of games. Having that standard being held up in basically the one game franchise that allows bisexuality is ridiculous and frustrating. I'm curious to know if you voice the same complaints in games where heterosexuality is the dominant sexual preference. Do you count it as lazy writing then?

No, I've pretty much said in games where if it's a focus that I find making everyone hetero is just as bad.

If you're going to have an ensemble cast, and make romance an option, a decent spectrum of sexualities should probably be explored. Sure, single character games fall flat in this area, and I think the world might be ready for a homosexual or bisexual protagonist in a game as long as the game warrants it. I don't believe in shoehorning, and I don't believe every example of a non-hetero option should be held up as an exemplar. Things should be able to stand on their portrayal, not because they portray it.

[Nadir]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this, Ink. Arguing whether bisexual characters are realistic in a game filled with dragons and demons is way too bizarre for me. I honestly don't see why something so deep in the fantasy realm has to have something as mundane as sexuality be realistic, and I don't have the luxury of time to spare to discuss it, alas.

[Inkidu]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this, Ink. Arguing whether bisexual characters are realistic in a game filled with dragons and demons is way too bizarre for me. I honestly don't see why something so deep in the fantasy realm has to have something as mundane as sexuality be realistic, and I don't have the luxury of time to spare to discuss it, alas.

If they had established some kind of physiological difference (look at the Mass Effect series's Asari) that'd be one thing, but I'm not going to bother explaining realism as a literary notion rather than an adjective.

[la dame en noir]

Trying to figure out why its lazy to give a player a choice. When a majority of games force players like me - a bisexual black female- to play white hetereosexual men.

Bioware has always been fantastic at giving their players choices and to do things out of the norm. I don't have be a straight white male unless I create my character that way. I love the edition of having exclusively gay, lesbian, straight, and bisexual characters. I especially love that they have what appears to be a transgender (Krem is F to M or in the process of). There is absolutely nothing lazy about it and the fact that they decided against making every character bisexual, makes me happy because it feels real. I'm 100% okay with Cullen being a straight male and 100% okay with Dorian being gay. If I want to romance them, I make the characters according to that A.I.'s preferences.

Cullen: Straight human male for female human/elves
Solas: Straight elven male for female elves
Iron Bull: Bisexual/Pansexual Qunari male for everything in the book
Dorian: Gay male human for Gay males of any racial origin
Josephine: Bisexual human female for anyone
Cassandra: Straight female for any straight male
Blackwall: Straight male for any female
Sera: Lesbian elven female for any female (dialogue indicates that she really likes Qunari women)

There is something for everyone and if you really wanna romance someone else, make another character that suits those preferences. My only annoyance is that I can't romance Dwarves...aka Varric D:

[consortium11]

I actually largely dislike the way Krem was included.

Not because I dislike the character... I don't... but because the way they brought Krem in went against a lot of the previously established lore. Now, Bioware have always played fast and loose with their lore and canon (the Mass Effect series is a perfect example of that) but considering how generic much of the Dragon Age series lore is one of the few original and interesting parts was the Qunari.

The Qunari have a lot of interesting aspects to them, but one of the key ones was very strict views on gender; in rough terms one won't find a female Qunari warrior or a male administrator or governor. In DA:O one can have a somewhat in-depth conversation about Sten about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDFxnxNy5lw

Then we suddenly have this "Aqun-Athlok" concept appear with Krem and DA:I which not only renders Sten's conversation above somewhat bizarre (as Sten wouldn't necessarily be surprised that someone could appear to be a woman but be a man... and thus a warrior... inside and at the very least would have mentioned the concept) but also goes against the existing canon for the Qunari in pretty much every way.

It actually does strike me as a lazy way to include the character. They wanted Krem... fair play. But then they stuck Krem with the Qunari and between that and a few other conversations largely undid one of the things that made the Qunari unique rather than find a way to include Krem without trampling on existing canon/lore.

[la dame en noir]

I don't think I quite understand what you're getting at with that.

All I can say is that Sten is one of my favorites in DA:O and the Qunari as a whole are my favorite out of the entire series...with their way of thinking and the way they go about things.

I'm just a little confused, I think maybe someone else would be able to debate whatever points you made. That being said, I love Krem. :)

[Inkidu]

Trying to figure out why its lazy to give a player a choice. When a majority of games force players like me - a bisexual black female- to play straight white hetereosexual men.

Bioware has always been fantastic at giving their players choices and to do things out of the norm. I don't have be a straight white male unless I create my character that way. I love the edition of having exclusively gay, lesbian, straight, and bisexual characters. I especially love that they have what appears to be a transgender (Krem is F to M or in the process of). There is absolutely nothing lazy about it and the fact that they decided against making every character bisexual, makes me happy because it feels real. I'm 100% okay with Cullen being a straight male and 100% okay with Dorian being gay. If I want to romance them, I make the characters according to that A.I.'s preferences.

Cullen: Straight human male for female human/elves
Solas: Straight elven male for female elves
Iron Bull: Bisexual/Pansexual Qunari male for everything in the book
Dorian: Gay male human for Gay males of any racial origin
Josephine: Bisexual human female for anyone
Cassandra: Straight female for any straight male
Blackwall: Straight male for any female
Sera: Lesbian elven female for any female (dialogue indicates that she really likes Qunari women)

There is something for everyone and if you really wanna romance someone else, make another character that suits those preferences. My only annoyance is that I can't romance Dwarves...aka Varric D:

To whom are you replying?

[la dame en noir]

To whom are you replying?

The individual that thinks writing bisexual characters are lazy...when in fact they're not all bisexual. Maybe I'm missing something from the conversation I was reading earlier, but this is just my take on it. Do not take it to heart.

[Inkidu]

The individual that thinks writing bisexual characters are lazy...when in fact they're not all bisexual. Maybe I'm missing something from the conversation I was reading earlier, but this is just my take on it. Do not take it to heart.

Ah, yeah you're missing my point.

I was actually speaking about Dragon Age 2 in comparison to this one which I approve wholeheartedly.

In Dragon Age 2 all the romance options were bisexual regardless of which gender Hawke you were you could woo anyone. While from a gameplay perspective this does alleviate the burden I suppose, but from a writing standpoint I found it lazy. The characters are flatter when they're all bisexual with no real reason as to why.

I find Inquisition's characters much deeper because they all have come to their own sexuality. My point is kind of supported by the fact that Dragon Age Origins was like this, DA 2 was all-bi because, and Dragon Age Inquisition moved back to the individual preferences model. So I think someone on the writing staff had a problem with the all-bi model.

[la dame en noir]

Ah, yeah you're missing my point.

I was actually speaking about Dragon Age 2 in comparison to this one which I approve wholeheartedly.

In Dragon Age 2 all the romance options were bisexual regardless of which gender Hawke you were you could woo anyone. While from a gameplay perspective this does alleviate the burden I suppose, but from a writing standpoint I found it lazy. The characters are flatter when they're all bisexual with no real reason as to why.

I find Inquisition's characters much deeper because they all have come to their own sexuality. My point is kind of supported by the fact that Dragon Age Origins was like this, DA 2 was all-bi because, and Dragon Age Inquisition moved back to the individual preferences model. So I think someone on the writing staff had a problem with the all-bi model.

I actually did not know that DA 2's characters were mostly bisexual until someone pointed it out. I always play as a female and so I don't really have the problem of running into those that might not be interested in a human female. On the other hand, Bioware was very much rushed to finish the game. I'm sure you can tell with its dungeons all looking the same.

[consortium11]

I don't think I quite understand what you're getting at with that.

All I can say is that Sten is one of my favorites in DA:O and the Qunari as a whole are my favorite out of the entire series...with their way of thinking and the way they go about things.

I'm just a little confused, I think maybe someone else would be able to debate whatever points you made. That being said, I love Krem. :)

Basically its this:

1) We have already established Qunari lore/canon.
2) This canon holds that the Qunari believe in distinct gender roles.
3) Because of these roles one won't find female warriors or male administrators.
4) To exemplify this Sten is utterly bemused by a female warrior Grey Warden.
5) Over the course of that conversation Sten compares "women who want to be men" to people who want to live on the moon.
6) Along comes DA:I
7) DA:I brings with it the concept of "Aqun-Athlok", the Qunari take on trans issues... essentially describing someone born as one sex who wants to be another.
8) Iron Bull uses the "Aqun-Athlok" term to describe Krem and later tells Cassandra that if a woman is a good enough fighter she will be considered male.
9) Unless we're suggesting that Sten is an idiot who didn't know these things (highly unlikely due to canon) then that's a complete reworking of the gender role system the Qunari previously had and which was established canon.
10) That strikes me as lazy; rather than work in a way to introduce Krem that didn't involve destroying existing canon Bioware instead threw Krem in and let her introduction tread all over what had come before.

[la dame en noir]

Thats something I didn't pay attention to in great detail because it didn't bother me that much. Things change and maybe the writers didn't completely think it through when they decided to have a trans character integrated. Maybe Sten was confused and figured that my warden was not really a female because she was such a good warrior. Hence why he approves when you don't mention your born in gender.

I don't think I need to go that crazy over such a minuscule detail that it would completely turn me off from the game and character. I love Bioware because they're the only company that seems to care about being diverse and including all of their players.

Thus, I see no point going crazy over it.

[Sindara]

Yes, this game ate my soul as well. Now I've got an elven obsession on my hands.

What would be the most unusual race/gender/class in anyone's  opinion? ?