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Author Topic: Obama-Biden  (Read 3036 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

Obama-Biden
« on: August 23, 2008, 05:15:10 AM »
So every news outlet is covering it now, though there's been a pretty fair deal of speculation about him. Somehow I doubt the African American community is going to hold the
Quote
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man."
line against his ticket.

It seems to me that this ticket is focused heavily on rebuilding the trainwreck that has been America's foreign policy from 2003 on.

One can hope, at least.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2008, 06:24:42 AM »

I imagine that foreign policy is one place the Obama administration will shine, especially given that much of world already seems to like him, and he hasn't even done anything yet as president.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks for Bush has been the "I'm going to take my ball and go home" approach to just about any nation that torques us off in the slightest. It's either that or "America never negotiates with ___".

It works some of the time; I firmly believe the line has been forever and too deeply crossed with al queda, they've proved in other areas like Iraq they're there just to stir up crap and really don't give a damn about even the Arab community they've sworn they're defending. There should be no negotiations with them, not a one, not ever, for 9/11 alone, until they're just extinct cockroaches.

Other nations that have a legit point of view, even if we don't like them, fine. I'd like to see Obama go to Pyongyang, Tehran, Havana...show them that the US isn't scared of anyone but will at least sit down and talk with them.


Other things I heard are encouraging too; he wants to create a lot of jobs here by developing green technologies; that's killing two birds with one stone and we all know that both have to be done (or we've just got our heads stuck in the sand).


« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 06:26:54 AM by The Overlord »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2008, 07:49:22 AM »
Honestly I think the best foreign policy America ever had was, "Walk softly and carry a big stick." I wish a president would dust that off.
Your right that might of been bad for Bush as a policy but at least he stood by it.
Obama's story-book appearance is what frightens me more than most things. It's the old saying, "You can make some of the people happy some of the time but you can't make all the people happy all the time."
It's just not going to work if he tries it. It might work to get him elected but he'll probably in up changing it once in office.
Of course impressing a billion foreigners doesn't do you a whole lot of good unless you get elected. It was nice that he showed off his policy but maybe he spent a little too much time on it.
I remember watching his speech in China (I think it was late.) and saying, "That's nice because come November none of those people can vote for you."

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2008, 10:59:27 AM »
*sigh* They just lost the race 20% of the Democrats pretty much won't vote for the ticket unless Hillary was on it. Even with her support they are unlikely going to recover. And Biden will not help bring in or contest any important state. On the other hand McCain has the full support of his party.

Offline CassandraNova

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2008, 07:43:43 PM »
And Biden will not help bring in or contest any important state

I'm not really sure that's a useful metric for evaluating the decision.  Edwards didn't carry North Carolina for Kerry in 2004, nor was Wyoming an important battleground state that decided on the basis of Cheney for bush in the same year, or in 2000.  In 2000, Al Gore didn't even carry his home state of Tennessee, while Joe Lieberman can't be credited for Connecticut going blue the same year.

Jack Kemp wasn't chosen to run with Bob Dole in 1996 because he could carry New York for the Republicans.  Tennessee went for Clinton in that year, but probably not because Al Gore was the vice-president.  Indiana went for George Bush in 1992, but do you think that had anything to do with Dan Quayle?  How far back do we need to go to get away from this model that a vice-presidential pick has to do with how many electoral votes he or she can bring to the table?
 
On the other hand McCain has the full support of his party.

 ???  What are you talking about?  McCain only won 70% of Idaho primary voters after every candidate but Ron Paul had dropped out:

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/86815/ron_paul_gets_best_primary_finish_yet/

This is not a man that enjoys the full allegiance and support of his party.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 07:57:58 PM by CassandraNova »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2008, 07:47:25 PM »
McCain has caused a lot less turbulence with in the Republican party. I think the whole Hillary or Obama thing has cause some big problems.

Offline CassandraNova

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2008, 08:00:15 PM »
McCain has caused a lot less turbulence with in the Republican party.

Again, I'm not sure I buy that.  Ann Coulter, as red meat a Republican as you could want, said she'd sooner vote for Hillary Clinton than John McCain.  When Coulter turns on a Republican, that's a sure sign of trouble.

http://www.godandstate.com/2008/02/04/john-mccain-vs-the-republican-base/

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2008, 08:06:59 PM »
True, but I think that the whole Hilliary or Obama thing left some bitter tastes. He made a huge mistake not making her his running mate like previously stated, but those two really don't like each other.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2008, 08:20:09 PM »
*sighs*  I don't like any of them and frankly I'm scared.  More scared during an upcoming election than I've ever been. 

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2008, 08:37:32 PM »
Me too. It's not looking promising.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2008, 11:25:04 PM »
Honestly I think the best foreign policy America ever had was, "Walk softly and carry a big stick." I wish a president would dust that off.

Actually IMHO, Obama is currently the best opportunity we have toward getting back to that ethic. He's made it clear he's going to be way more of a negotiator than we've had in years, but still plans to pursue the war on terror as it needs to be.

The Bush ethic for three terms has been essentially 'bluster loudly like an arrogant American and bash everything with a big stick", something I tend to believe McCain will only continue. That SOB has convinced me he's still living in the Cold War; beisdes the recent Georgian invasion, any takers now on how badly he will sour US-Russian relations?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2008, 07:30:03 AM »
Bushes policy is fine. America just doesn't like a war they can't win within a month. What are the latest numbers 1000 plus troops lost in Iraq?
We lose more people to car accidents each year than we've lost in the whole conflict. The problem with this war is that the media is all over it. It is so televised and dramatized. According to John Oliver, the comedian. "Britain has committed horrible atrocities in the name of the Empire. But all that was on eight by twelve watercolor. Not the ten O'clock news. I think a lot of people are losing sight of the bigger picture. Personally I think we should yank out and let Iraq collapse under its own weight but that's not the responsible thing to do.
America's not gong to be liked by the majority of the world because it's the big kid on the block.

Obama's foreign policy doesn't bug me. It's not exactly big stick material but it could work.
The thing that bugs me about Obama is that everyone just eats it up. That's one of the things I like about McCain he pisses people off.
That shows he's not saying it just to get the votes, and that's something I can respect.
I know how Obama's going to bring about the change. It's going to cause a massive rise in taxes. Probably for the Middle class citizen.
That would work at least until the bottom fell out an more Middle class becomes Lower class.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2008, 10:57:51 AM »
I've split the Iraq discussion, please continue in said thread.

And Inkedu, you really need to start looking up your facts. I'm beginning to lose patience and that's not a good spot for you to be in.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2008, 11:24:31 AM »
I really do think that Obama is our best bet for anything positive. . .but I am still very doubtful of that.  Maybe it's fear of unknown, though I pride myself on not fearing the unknown, that has me on edge everytime I think about the future of the country.  Or. . .maybe it's the fear of history repeating itself.  I don't think I could survive another Great Depression (not saying I went through the first one, just saying it's happened before it could happen again).

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2008, 01:37:05 PM »
Lets be honest you can put Hiltler in the spot and call him a Republican and most Republicans would likely vote for him. (ok maybe not that bad but face it when it comes to voting most vote for their parties selection) So in fact regardless of what happened Republicans will mostly vote Republican. The same with the minor parties Barr was not a popular choice but most vote for the party and will back him since the alternatives are not suited to our values. The same for the Green Party, Constitution Party, Socialist Workers Party etc. etc.

The Democrats are the ones that don't usually support their party enough.

And I'm going to put this out many southern democrats that are moderate or conservative and white a large block in many states, and I suspect outside those, will not vote for him because he is black. Hillary as a liberal white woman might be also a problem but she is at least white, that made her likely more electable. Add that the horrible blood Hillary was snubbed by the party, the perception Mrs. Obama is a racist and the fact polls show they lost 20% of the democrats with putting Obama on the ticket they just lost. Unless Obama can pull everyone together and get the independents on his side but that is not going to be easy.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2008, 01:40:09 PM »
. . .I vote for whomever seems best fitted to fill the job.  I wish we'd headed George Washingtons words. . .*sighs*

Offline Ket

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2008, 01:56:54 PM »
... frankly I'm scared.  More scared during an upcoming election than I've ever been. 

I am as well. 

Which is why I plan on using the write in option at the bottom of the ballot.  Sure, I know that the person I choose to write in will not be elected.  However, we are told that voting is a way to voice our opinion, there I will be voicing it.  Is my one ballot really going to count?  Doubtful.  I've never seen such a large election come down to just one vote, and with the process we use that is pretty impossible.  But I will still voice my opinion by voting for neither candidate.  It may just be one tiny drop in a very large puddle, but it's my drop darn it!

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2008, 02:07:59 PM »
Well I dont Trust either of the major parties and unless I can trust them I'm not voting for them. I will vote Libertarian they are conservative in many areas and I support their platform far more than any other option. Will Barr get elected no, but I won't sully my vote by choosing from the North and South Poles axis of evil my honor is not for sale.

If the Republicans did nominate Ron Paul they could have changed my mind but they didn't.

Offline Methos

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2008, 10:44:04 PM »
Only one thing about Obama impresses me - how someone who says so much can say so little.

Offline Storiwyr

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2008, 08:52:36 AM »
Only one thing about Obama impresses me - how someone who says so much can say so little.

I must say I'm also impressed by how someone who says so much can manage not to make himself look like a total idiot at LEAST 99% of the time. Not something America is used to after 8 years.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2008, 10:47:19 AM »
I must say I'm also impressed by how someone who says so much can manage not to make himself look like a total idiot at LEAST 99% of the time. Not something America is used to after 8 years.

*nods nods*

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2008, 02:26:15 PM »
I must say I'm also impressed by how someone who says so much can manage not to make himself look like a total idiot at LEAST 99% of the time. Not something America is used to after 8 years.

"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

I think the only thing that really bothered me about Obama - besides the tax cut silliness which I don't particularly trust - was his opposition to missile defense.  But that's a different debate.

Offline Storiwyr

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2008, 02:29:01 PM »
"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

I think the only thing that really bothered me about Obama - besides the tax cut silliness which I don't particularly trust - was his opposition to missile defense.  But that's a different debate.

*chuckles* Perhaps I should have said "Not something America is used to seeing in office" period. XD

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Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2008, 01:34:54 PM »
"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

*Falls over laughing*    I LOVE it!!!

Offline The Overlord

Re: Obama-Biden
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2008, 01:56:52 AM »
Only one thing about Obama impresses me - how someone who says so much can say so little.

As opposed to Bush, who puts his foot in his mouth at every opportunity and has done a fine job of driving foreign policy into a brick wall. If this makes Obama bad, then it's clearly the lesser of two evils.