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Author Topic: What alignment are these characters?  (Read 665 times)

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Offline MzHydeTopic starter

What alignment are these characters?
« on: May 01, 2013, 10:59:39 AM »
I was just watching one of SpoonyOne's 'Counter Monkey' videos about D&D stories. Not having played the game myself (but finding it very interesting) I was set to wondering, "What alignment are my characters?" I have a few that I play regularly and I am just curious as to what alignment they might fall under. If there's anyone out there who plays D&D, would you be so kind as to sate my curiosity?

Shizuru

Gender;Female
Sexuality;Bisexual
Age; 3200+
Race;Oni
Birth Circle; 7th Circle, Violence
Class You Teach;Physical Education
Possible Club Interest;Kendo

Abilities;
--Old Demon: As a demon of some three thousand years of age, Shizuru is in the prime of her hellish life. She is endowed with the traits all older demons share; supernatural strength, speed, endurance, and agility. Mortal weapons are less effective against demons unless they are blessed or made of silver.

--Swordplay: Shizuru has been trained by a number of Japanese sword masters including Miyamoto Musashi. She has acquired thousands of years of experience in battle, both in the underworld and in the mortal realm. Her signature weapon is a katana named Koryu ('Little Dragon'), it was forged by a famous Japanese swordsmith and tempered with her own blood to make it effective against supernatural creatures as well as mortals.

Powers;
--Fire Control, Minor: Shizuru was once able to summon firestorms and control flames that burned hot enough to melt anything. The greater bulk of her power has been locked away, leaving her with only minor control of flames. She can still summon fire with a snap of her fingers or mere gesture, but her power is a fraction of what it once was.

--Shapeshifting, Minor: Most demons can change their form in one way or another, but Shizuru does not specialize in this. The best she can do is get rid of her wings, claws, and horns in order to appear more human and blend in. She cannot, however, change her eyes from the odd gold color they normally have - it's something that makes her stick out and draws attention, so these days in the human world she often wears shades to cover them.

--Object Summoning, Minor: Again, much of her power is locked away. As an extremely old and experienced demon, Shizuru was once able to summon up nearly anything her mind could conjure (as long as it wasn't too complex). Now, she can summon, at best, small objects without moving parts. There is a single exception to this and that is her motorcycle, Matsukaze. She is only able to summon it thanks to extensive practice and repetition.

Personality; Shizuru possesses a mellow and somewhat cynical personality, reflected by her easygoing (and at times bored) facial expression. Shizuru practices a tough love approach with those she cares about, causing her to be stern yet loving towards them. Though she tends to stay out of other peoples' business, if she feels like she needs to take matters into her own hands, she will do so. She's not afraid to use brute force when necessary. She has a romantic side, but that tends to be reserved for her lovers. She's embarrassed to be caught getting all 'lovey dovey' around other people. In a lot of ways, Shizuru is like a cat; she comes and goes when she pleases and tends to wander off when bored. She rarely listens to others and prefers her freedom above anything else. She loves to take her time in answering questions, partially because she likes to think before speaking and partially because she likes to make people wait. In combat she is still just as calm and collected no matter the situation, a trait that can be rather disturbing for her opponents. She is primarily interested in combat and tranquility. A strange combination to be sure. Fighting is her primary interest and she will do almost anything if it promises to result in a challenging fight. When she's not actively engaged in combat, however, she enjoys peace, quiet, and being alone. For a demon, she has a sense of honor; she prefers not to kill non-combatants, will not attack from behind or strike a downed opponent. The caveat is that if someone gets in her way, she will eliminate them.

Background Information;  Shizuru is a demoness that has been bouncing back and forth between the mortal realm and the underworld for thousands of years. Sometimes she is summoned (sometimes mistakenly) and sometimes she manages to find a way over herself. These trips usually lasted anywhere from a few months to a year or two; her longest was in ancient Japan, where she stayed for a few hundred years, first from 600AD to 700AD and again from about 1200AD to 1650AD. In that time she developed a frightening reputation for herself thanks to her swordplay and a touch of fire-based showmanship. In those periods she accomplished many great deeds; training Tomoe Gozen, training under Miyamoto Mushashi, fighting under Oda Nobunaga, and even being mistaken for Amaterasu.  Shizuru often pines for those quieter, much simpler times. Times where she could walk for days without seeing a single building. Frankly, she considers most technology to be an eyesore (though she has a soft spot for motorcycles). During her younger days she was summoned by a cult named The Children of The Sun and the ritual placed a mark on her back called The Halo of The Sun, which sealed away the bulk of her magical powers. She is embarrassed about this and it's always a touchy subject for her. She keeps the mark hidden from most people and refuses to talk about it; as a result, most don't know about the mark and those that do merely think it to be a tattoo.

Shizuru (Human) and Matsukaze
Halo of The Sun

Tracy
Name: Tracy Grimes
Alias: Grimm
Age: 25
Gender/Sexuality: Female/Lesbian
Position: Teacher, Arcane Arts

Powers:
--Demon Physiology; Being part demon has endowed Tracy with the ability to wield and draw power from the astral, spiritual, and infernal planes. Mortals cannot use this gift (and indeed, are rarely aware such planes exist) without intense training, but her heritage has allowed her to practice magic from a young age. As a magical prodigy, Tracy's magic power is absolutely immense. While she does know spells from all schools, her demonic blood makes it much easier for her to harness spells that draw their power from demons of the infernal plane of existence. Her most powerful spells are able to wipe a person's soul off the astral plane, turn people to dust, and even create explosions that can destroy an area the size of a city block.

The downside to all this power is many-fold. First; magic draws upon the user's energy. Tracy has a ravenous appetite and has meals fit for a family of five. If she runs out of energy, casting spells will draw upon her body itself, much like someone starving to death. Except much, much faster. Second; her most powerful spells require cast time during which she is vulnerable. Third; her close combat skills are negligible at best. She does have some 'up close' spells and always carries a knife, but she personifies the 'glass cannon' trope. She does not do well up close.

Tracy has found ways around some of her weakness. She is a much smarter combatant than people give her credit for and is adept at fooling her opponents, or creating situations which leave her at an advantage. Her second power aids her in that 'glass cannon' bit.

--Replication; Drawing upon her arcane knowledge (with the help of several forbidden tomes) she has learned how to take her soul from the astral plane and make a copy of it in the physical plane, creating an almost perfect duplicate of herself. With her current ability, she can create up to five copies of herself and have them out on the field at once. Each is her down to the last detail; voice, personality, memories, etc. The downside is that they lack her capacity for magic, only able to draw upon the latent magical energies in the space around them.

History: Tracy Grimes is 1/8th demon. The bloodline dilutes a little more with each generation, but one of her grandparents was from the infernal plane and decided to shack up with a moral. Probably for the hell of it. Her parents never hid her ancestry from her, as they knew that leaving such power unrestrained would be dangerous to everyone, including their daughter. While Tracy was a bit of a rebel and a problem child, she delighted in studying magic and for her parents, she was a good daughter (though her grades left much to be desired). Tracy might be a bit of the anti-hero but she's got a good enough head on her shoulders to not resort to all out supervillany with her gift. On the other hand, most capes find her loud and abrasive attitude obnoxious and often refuse to work with her. Thus, she's been relegated to a teaching position, since her skill with magic is unquestioned. As a teacher she's proven to be fairly popular with students, thanks to her more practical style of teaching and her laid-back attitude. Headstrong and cocky, Tracy loves action.

Additional Image
Some of Tracy's Spells
-Necro Void: Summons weak ghosts and spirits to inhabit corpses and bones, raising them as zombies or skeletons. Easy to maintain.

-Black Hound Call: Summons a trio of black phantom dogs that drain the energy of those they touch. Used for restoring Tracy's own energy. The dogs can only be destroyed by magic. Moderate to cast.

-Black Occult Field: Conjures a circular field of darkness that protects anyone inside. Any living thing that touches the field turns to ash. Non-living things are unaffected. Hard to maintain.

-Black Wave: Upon physical touch, this spell sends a dark wave of force through a person or object. Immensely powerful, but requires contact to cast. Better used for blasting holes through walls or other surfaces. Moderate to cast.

-Ebon Blade: One of Tracy's most powerful spells. She created this herself. It has a moderate cast time and creates an enormous blade of darkness that can cut through most anything - even through things on other planes of existence. It is highly demanding to cast and maintain, and she does not yet have full control of the spell.

-Spectral Chains: Summons chains made of darkness. Tracy uses them as whip-like weapons to attack or bind opponents. They are very flexible and can move in unnatural ways, bending to her will. Easy to cast and maintain.

-Brahm Blazer: This spell shoots out a column of darkness that deals both physical and spiritual damage. It is moderately powerful. One of Tracy's 'go to' spells, this is easy to cast.

-Shadow Snare: By casting this spell and then stepping on or pinning a target's shadow with her dagger, she can paralyze an opponent. Light or light spells can dispel the effect. Easy to cast.

-Dark Mist: Summons a wave of fog to obscure. Good for hiding herself or her allies should the need arise. This spell is easy to cast.

-Dynast Breath: Summons icy wind which wraps around an opponent and then flash freezes them solid. Can also be used to freeze bodies of water. One of the few spiritual spells Tracy uses with any regularity. Moderate to cast.

-Diem Wind: Another spiritual plane spell, this summons powerful wind that can wrap around someone like a shield to deflect projectiles, or be used to lift someone up off the ground and cause them to hover in the air briefly. Moderate to maintain.

-Fireball: The classic mage spell. It causes a ball of fire to shoot out from the caster's palm and explode upon contact with any surface. Not the most powerful, but it is easy and cheap to cast.

-Stone Spiker: An earth spiritual spell, it creates several sharp, rocky spires from the ground. Requires the caster to be in contact (standing on or touching) earth. Easy to cast.

-Lighting: An astral spell. Creates a simple ball of light for lighting the way. Maintainable with almost no effort.

-Dragon Slayer: One of the most powerful spells in magic, an infernal spell that draws power from one of the lords of hell. It causes a massive beam of blood-red energy to burst from the caster's hands and, upon striking a target, creates an immensely powerful explosion about the size of a city block. There is very, very little that can withstand it's might. Due to it's destructive nature, however, it must be cast with care. It is also the most taxing spell in Tracy's arsenal (Ebon Blade is second) and requires a long cast time.

Mona Temple

"Sometimes a woman with nothing good left to die for can live with nothing to lose." - Mona Temple, Temple of Pain 2

Name:Mona Temple
Relationships:Bi
Role:Gritty Third Person Shooter
World:Temple of Pain

Bio:Mona Temple is the extremely popular heroine of the Temple of Payne series of shooters, a game series that practically created 'bullet time' and made it a staple in shooters to come. Mona was one of the first heroes that could slow down time and pick off enemies while she dove through the air, guns blazing. Her games also were praised for their dark, noire-like storytelling and twisting plots with recurring characters. She was one of the first female game characters to be admired not for her looks, but for her raw skill and ability. To put it simply; she kicked ass. While some gamers found her to be too brooding, others loved the series' take on police drama and revenge stories. The Temple of Pain series has just launched it's third game to high acclaim and rumors stir about DLC content down the pipes. The series has put it's star through a lot and she's changed along with it. The Mona of today would be unrecognizable from the character from the first game.

-Temple of Pain-
"The warning signs had been everywhere, screaming at me not to do this, to turn my back and pick up the pieces of my life. I'd ignored them and the fates were now rebelling against me, screaming in my ears while flames licked up the walls, eating away at the warehouse and my chances for survival like a hungry beast." - Mona Temple

Temple of Pain, Summary
The game opened with a flashback of the car accident that took Jack and Anna Temple away from their daughters Julie and Mona. Brief flashes of twisted steel, screams, fire. Mona and Julie were raised in an orphanage. The nuns there beat Mona on a regular basis. She often acted out and got into trouble, earning further punishment. In stark contrast, Julie was an angel, polite and behaved. The nuns could not seperate the sisters and give them away to different homes, but Mona's consistantly bad behavior scared away prospective parents. After a while Mona herself realized she was hurting her little sister's chances of finding a family, so she ran away. The nuns, happy to be rid of Mona, declared her missing and called the police. Mona lived on the streets, stealing to survive. Eventually, the search was called off and Mona declared deceased. Julie was quickly adopted.

Mona watched her sister from a distance, the little girl living happily with a new family, memories of their real parents too far and too few to be a hindrance. Mona herself joined The East Street Brawlers for the shelter and protection and started on a life of crime. The game's tutorial starts on the faithful day that the Brawlers decide to try and join 'the big time' and rob a bank. The tutorial level, players control Mona, learning to use a weapon as the gang robs First Street National. The police show up quickly, thanks to the silent alarm. The Brawlers betray Mona and the player, sending her to fetch one last bag of cash while they speed off in the getaway car at the behest of the gang leader, Victor Mendez. The police catch Mona and arrest her... but they have a deal.

Mona is sent back to the gang's hideout wearing a wire. She pretends to have escaped custody. The gang doesn't buy it and the wire is found. A gunfight begins, the first real level of the game is a fast-paced, adrenaline pumping level where Mona fights off the entire gang by herself while the warehouse burns down around her. It is still refered to in gaming publications as one of the best shooter levels in recent memory. Mendez is nowhere to be found, but Mona emerges victorious. Pleased and willing to write off the deaths as 'gang violence' (which will be but  a side-story on the nightly news and swept aside for cute puppy stories) NYPD Detective Winters offer Mona a job as a hit woman of sorts. The criminals that the police cannot get to due to various technicalities, will be given to Mona as targets. Criminals killing criminals, they say. Nobody will care. She takes the job.

Each level from then on has Mona hunting down various criminal targets, storming their hideouts and shooting up the place. She gradually grows more skilled, using 'Skill Points' earned through smooth gunplay to get new moves like slow-motion dives, faster reloads, a balisong to use in melee combat, and more. Each mission awards Mona money that she can spend on upgrades to her safehouse and weapon cache, making her a gradually more deadly force to be reckoned with. Eventually, she tracks down Mendez and the final mission takes place inside of an abandoned factory which is set ablaze during the struggle, mirroring the first mission in the game. This time, Mona is the only one to leave alive.

-Temple of Pain 2: The Fall of Mona Temple-
"You fucking bitch! Why the FUCK won't you DIE?! What the hell ARE you?!" - Salvatore Lupino

Temple of Pain 2: The Fall of Mona Temple, Summary
Mona, now quite wealthy from all her 'work' with the police, is living in an expansive loft apartment and armed to the teeth. She's been doing dirty work for law enforcement for a few years now and is a skilled shooter and melee combatant. The Skill Point system from the previous game is gone and it is now more of a straight shooter, though Mona retains every ability she had earned in the previous title. The high life makes the heroine sloppy, though, and she ends up leaving a paper trail. The game opens as Mona lies on wet pavement, slick with her own blood, thoughts of how she'd gotten here drifting through her head, so close to the bullet that was now lodged inside of it.

A note had been waiting under her door. "We have Ben," it said, "Come alone or we make it worse", it promised. Captain (formerly Detective) Ben Winters, her closest friend in the NYPD. One of the only people she could, in fact, call a friend. Someone had kidnapped him. The address was a warehouse. Sharp-eyed players would recognize it as the warehouse the first game opened in. Inside what little remained of the rotting, burned structure, sat Ben Winters, seemingly alone. The player enters, prepared to fight off hordes of thugs, but just as they cross the doorway, Winters is shot dead by an assassin hiding in the shadows. There was never any chance of saving him. They just wanted Mona to watch him die.

Following the gunshot, the player chases the assassin through buildings and over rooftops in what would be another iconic level of the series. The killer gets away, but leaves a vital clue that points to the Russian Mob. They have a minor presence in the city at best, only using the docks as a place to import drugs. It's good enough to go on. But as Mona returns home she finds her apartment set ablaze, everything she owns, destroyed. Another note awaits her, this one even more grim. "We have Julie", it says, "Come alone or we make it worse," it promises.

Her sister.

Left with only her CZ75 (Mona's trademark handgun) and her balisong, she arrives at the docks to find Julie held hostage by two thugs; Salvatore Lupino, a hitman for the Mafia, and Vladimir Radinov, a mid-level drug dealer for the Russian Mob. Players expect this fight to go in Mona's favor, for her to beat the odds and find a way to rescue her kid sister. That's not what happened. In a controversial plot twist that is still talked about today, after Mona gives up her weapons in exchange for her sister's life, Salvatore shoots Julie in the head anyway. Enraged, Mona lunges at Vladimir and is herself shot through the left eye. This brings us back to the opening of the game. The screen fades to black on the sound of the gangsters laughing, rolling Julie's body into the water.

It opens up again in a hospital bed. Mona has survived. What follows is a quest for revenge that takes Mona and the players through New York City, facing down hordes of mobsters as she hunts down Sal and Vlad. The player first encounters Vlad, which boasts one of the first uses of Quick-Time Events. Mona engages in a titanic hand-to-hand struggle with a coked-up Vladimir, the mountain of a man leaving a jagged scar on Mona's right cheek with a razorblade. Eventually, using her knife, she manages to stab Vlad and shove him out of a window, where he lands on his own parked car.

The end of the game comes a few levels later, with the player stalking Sal Lupino as he exits a card game, then finally cornering and killing him, much to his disbelief. The moment is cathartic and gave players and critics a satisfying ending. Beating the game on 'Nightmare' difficulty unlocks an extended ending that shows Mona in an empty apartment with a gun to her head. Nothing left to live for. The screen goes black. Suddenly, a phone call. Silence. Then, "....I'll take the job." The end.

-Temple of Pain 3: Tomorrows-
"I think of what happened yesterday, what's happening today, and it all makes me want to put a gun in my mouth. You know what keeps me going? Hope.  Hope that, you know, maybe tomorrow will be a better day. Maybe." - Mona Temple

Temple of Pain 3: Tomorrows, Summary
The third game opens up on that mysterious 'job' that had left gamers guessing at the end of the second game. Mona is no longer an assassin. She is a Detective for the NYPD. The job offer had given her hope and a purpose in life. She fights now to prevent the scum of the city from doing to others what they'd done to her. She fights to protect those that can't protect themselves. She might be on the side of the law now, but that doesn't mean she's not going to go in with guns blazing. Gamers, worried after seeing previews that the series might be 'losing it's edge' were delighted to see the gritty nature of the game intact. In fact, it had been expanded upon. Now the Temple series was more than a linear shooter. It was a fully open world, set in NYC, where Mona was free to roam as she pleased. She could visit bars, take side-missions from various contacts, upgrade her new home, and even play mini-games like shooting pool and darts. She could only use her weapons while in designated mission areas but the open nature let players explore and experience a living, breathing environment.

The story unfolds as Mona picks apart, piece by piece, the Chinese Triads infesting the streets of New York. She takes apart their operations and battles the lieutenants of The Mountain Cloud Boys, getting closer and closer to their boss with every mission. Mid-way through the game, Mona discovers evidence that proves that the Triad leader, Wu Zi Huang, was the one that organized the kidnappings of Ben and Julie, as well as her apartment fire. Fed up with Mona taking apart the criminal element in the city, Huang had united the Triads, Mafia, and Russian Mob to ruin Mona's life. He had then let his dogs do the dirty work while he kept himself as far away as possible. Not anymore.

Mona set off on a quest for revenge, to give back tenfold what Huang had given her. She (and the player) continue to dismantle the Triad, while exacting personal revenge. She torches Wu Zi Huang's home, making sure to leave a burning pile of his money on his manicured front lawn, with a note just off to the side.

"I am going to make it worse," it promises.

The climax of the game sees Huang attempting to escape the city under the cover of the Chinese New Year's Day parade. Mona chases him through the streets but loses him. She manages to find out that he is planning to leave the city via boat. Racing against the timer, Mona makes it to the docks, fights off Huangs men, steals a boat, and crashes it into the Triad leader's yacht. What follows is an intense shootout aboard the yacht as it begins to burn and slowly sink. On the top deck, Mona and Huang face each other. Huang tosses Mona a sword, asking for 'an honorable end to a years-long conflict'. Mona agrees, but Huang is a much more skilled swordfighter. He leaves a deep slash on her left cheek and pins her by her shoulder to the deck.

"No last words, Detective? What is that look on your face? Is it defeat? Resignation? What are you going to do?" asks Huang.

"Cheat," says Mona, who unveils a .25 DuO on a spring-loaded trigger hidden under her sleeve. She shoots him in the chest, pulls the sword out of her other arm, then ditches him by leaping into the water as the boat burns and sinks.

"This isn't over! This will never be over until you are dead, Mona Temple!" howls Huang, sure to drown or burn aboard his own ship.





Skills and Arsenal:
Mona is highly skilled in hand-to-hand combat, with great speed and physical agility, and is an expert but reckless driver. Although she does not always respect the letter of the law, she has a strong moral sense of right and wrong and is reluctant to kill unless absolutely necessary. An excellent marksman, she often targets her opponents' trigger fingers or crucial components of their guns in combat rather than going for a lethal shot. As a result, she has sometimes been hunted by criminals angry at their mutilation at her hands. Her signature melee weapon is her balisong, with which she is extremely skilled. She often flips or twirls it just for practice, but more often than not only does this at home. She generally keeps the weapon concealed in a pocket.

She also usually carries a .25 DuO (made by the same company as the CZ-75) with the trigger guard removed, mounted on a spring-loaded frame strapped to her arm for quick access in a tight spot. When her CZ-75 has been unavailable, she relies on a SIG P210, another very high quality weapon, and sometimes carries a back-up gun in an ankle holster. She keeps a precision rifle and shotgun in the trunk of her Shelby Cobra; these have included a Walther WA2000 and a SIG 550 Sniper variant.

Appearance:
Mona stands about five foot eight, with brown eyes and black, pixie-cut hair that is usually a little messy. She has several distinguishing features; an eyepatch from a gunshot wound, two facial scars from different blades, and a criss-crossing series of scars along her left arm from when she punched her way through a car window and pulled a man back through it in her second game. Her first and second games had Mona dressing in punk-ish attire, but now that the third game is out and she is an NYPD Detective, she dresses more formally. Mona traditionally wears a black vest and red tie with a white long-sleeved button-up shirt under it, both to conceal the scars on her left arm and the hidden DuO she keeps strapped to her right. Her CZ-75 is kept in a shoulder holster she always wears. Her outfit is completed by black slacks and shoes. She keeps her badge clipped to her belt.



Offline Shjade

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2013, 11:16:22 AM »
At a guess:

Shizuru's probably Lawful Evil

Tracy's probably Chaotic Neutral

Mona's probably Chaotic Good

Offline chaoslord29

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2013, 01:42:13 PM »
I'm inclined to say Shizuru is more Neutral Evil than anything else. The standard trope for D&D is that demons are Chaotic Evil (rather than Lawful Evil Devils), but since nothing about her personality or background suggest anything more than a passing interest in mayhem, death and the like, I'm hesitant to even call her particularly 'evil'. She doesn't seem all that motivated to do evil deeds, just more or less comfortable and casual about doing them when it suits her needs. That screams Neutral Evil to me, especially since she doesn't have much of an agenda beyond "Look out for number one."

Definitely seconding Shjade's assessment of Chaotic Neutral for Tracy. She seems mostly apathetic to the trappings of morality, without being sociopathic, or nihilistic which to me says Neutral. She's also a free spirit, and obviously enjoys her liberties, which is all Chaotic. The only thing that gives me pause is her occupation as a teacher, and her more practical, nature, which are traditionally, but not necessarily lawfully associated traits. They don't however 'counter' her otherwise chaotic nature, so she definitely stays on the more libertine side of the fence.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 01:54:44 PM »
I would put Shizuru at Lawful Neutral.  She's not out to do good or evil, doesn't care about helping anyone beyond those she cares about.  She also sticks to a code, though, even when it might not be beneficial to her, so that implies lawfulness to me.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 02:05:44 PM »
I would put Shizuru at Lawful Neutral.  She's not out to do good or evil, doesn't care about helping anyone beyond those she cares about.  She also sticks to a code, though, even when it might not be beneficial to her, so that implies lawfulness to me.

Her code though doesn't really prescribe or inform her behavior, it's more like a set of preferences. Her supreme lack of an agenda and apathy towards the conduct of others doesn't seem very 'Lawful' to me. Then there's:

Quote
"In a lot of ways, Shizuru is like a cat; she comes and goes when she pleases and tends to wander off when bored. She rarely listens to others and prefers her freedom above anything else."

I've never heard anyone describe a cat's behavior as 'lawful'; in fact they tend to define capriciousness, which is at least neutral, maybe chaotic depending on how aloof they want to play it. Shizuru strikes me as exactly that, removed, aloof, even haughty in regards to anything that doesn't necessarily concern her. She doesn't go out of her way to do much of anything, but there's nothing she won't do if it suits her purposes.

Offline Geeklet

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 02:23:05 PM »
I'd almost say that Shizuru is True Neutral. Other than being a demon, there is nothing else that comes across as truly evil, yet also nothing that comes across as truly good either.

Tracy and Mona, Shjade pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Offline Shjade

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 03:01:28 PM »
Shizuru's hard. I was first thinking Lawful Evil because of the combination of basically a code of honor with the whole "will do anything for a good fight" + "will kill anyone in her way," but going over it again after a little time to think on it, doing anything for a fight and generally going against the grain of increasingly regimented societal and technological advances probably pushes her more toward Chaotic, or at least Neutral, despite those self-imposed combat rules.

Still think she'd probably be in the Evil category for column #2 though: she's an ancient demon, she kills people without remorse with as little excuse as "he was in my way," she prioritizes violence over anything else...sounds pretty evil to me, if not in the villainous take-over-the-world sense.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 12:28:48 AM »
Her code though doesn't really prescribe or inform her behavior, it's more like a set of preferences. Her supreme lack of an agenda and apathy towards the conduct of others doesn't seem very 'Lawful' to me. Then there's:

I've never heard anyone describe a cat's behavior as 'lawful'; in fact they tend to define capriciousness, which is at least neutral, maybe chaotic depending on how aloof they want to play it. Shizuru strikes me as exactly that, removed, aloof, even haughty in regards to anything that doesn't necessarily concern her. She doesn't go out of her way to do much of anything, but there's nothing she won't do if it suits her purposes.

I guess the key element is how strict does she adhere to:

Quote from: Shizuru
she has a sense of honor; she prefers not to kill non-combatants, will not attack from behind or strike a downed opponent.

Because if that's like something she will NEVER bend, then that's lawful.  If she uses it more as a guideline and WILL attack an opponent from behind or down, if needs must, then she's pure neutral.

The key element is how defining her honor is to her life.

Offline MzHydeTopic starter

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 01:10:27 AM »
Wow! It's pretty cool to see so much discussion over tihs. So, let me offer up a scenario for you all that might make it easier, or at least more interesting. This is what happened during the last RP I used Shizuru in here.

Quote
The setting is a fantasy world in which an Evil Overlord has opened a portal on the mortal plane. He is marching his armies through with the goal over conquering the mortal realm. Shizuru is his General. Shizuru's reputation as a powerful swordswoman has garnered her many followers, fellow demons that respect her strength and prowess. So, she is also bringing a fair number of troops to the table. She is at the Overlord's side purely for the promise of meeting more challenging opponents to test her mettle against. She doesn't really care for the Overlord's 'conquer the world' plan and is more interested in combat and getting to go back to the mortal realm; she enjoys forests, fields, and open areas quite a bit more than the blasted hellscape of the underworld.

The first battle arrives, the Overlord's troops lay seige to Overlook, a human stronghold. At this point, the Evil Overlord's army vastly outnumbers the humans. Overlook is filled not only with soldiers, but it's also a settlement, so it has civilians inside. Shizuru presents the human defenders with a show of force and a proposition; evacuate Orverlook or suffer annihilation. Fearing treachery, the humans stand their ground. Shizuru leads the demonic forces in an attack.

Shizuru, her bodyguards, and other demons capable of flight make it past the outer walls of Overlook and clear that section of the wall before they start to open the gates. As the gates are being opened one of the mortal champions, an Orcish warrior, attempts to stop her. Shizuru and the Orc engage in battle and they are, for the moment, evenly matched. A human Healer, friend of the Orc, attempts to aid her friend by offering support. At that moment, one of Shizuru's demonic troop comes up behind the Healer and is about to cut her down when Shizuru intervenes, killing the demon herself. She sternly warns the girl not to interrupt the battle and the girl relents. She and the Orc battle until the gates are opened and Overlook is lost to the humans.

Afterwards, the Overlord begins moving his troops into Overlook, planning to use it as a base. A new demonic advisor appears, however, and she can raise troops from the dead to fight on the side of the demons. This and other actions cause Shizuru to become so disgusted with the Overlord that she takes her followers and leaves. In her epilogue, Shizuru takes to the coast with her troops. There, they encounter an island federation of mages. The islands have been locked in constant struggle for ages, each clan constantly trying to one-up the other. Her plan is to conquer the splintered island factions and unite them under her banner. She has no plans for taking over more than she needs and she has no bias. Human, Orc, Elf, Demon. She respects strength, ability, and honor above all else. With those that follow her, she will create a lasting empire.

At least until she grows bored and travel calls to her once again..

So, she does have a personal code of honor and follows it quite strictly. It mostly revolves around what she would or would not do in a battle. She won't kill non-combatants, or fighters she considers to be 'support' (ie; healers, people with non-threatening magic and abilities). If someone fitting that description engages her in battle she will simply brush them aside, avoid them, or ignore them - unless absolutely forced to do so. In that case, she'll strike them down and not think much about it. She won't attack from behind or downed opponents - especially not in a one-on-one duel situation. As far is loyalty is concerned, she is fairly loyal to whomever she's working for. She wouldn't stab an employer in the back unless they were really asking for it, but as shown above, she's not above simply leaving if the situation doesn't suit her interests.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2013, 09:32:33 AM »
Yeah, all of that still says Neutral to me. Neutral Evil at that. There's none of the strict adherence to a higher calling or order or power than oneself that you usually find with the lawful types (like a Liege, God, or Philosophy) and even her personal code emphasizes practicality and flexibility rather than discipline and 'honor'. The whole point is that she doesn't do it for the honor, she does it because that's how she likes thing to be done.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 12:16:24 PM »
Yeah, all of that still says Neutral to me. Neutral Evil at that. There's none of the strict adherence to a higher calling or order or power than oneself that you usually find with the lawful types (like a Liege, God, or Philosophy) and even her personal code emphasizes practicality and flexibility rather than discipline and 'honor'. The whole point is that she doesn't do it for the honor, she does it because that's how she likes thing to be done.
As I understand the alignment system, and I take my cue from D&D 3e on this, Lawful types have a set of rules, whether personal or external that they WILL not break.  Whether it's whim, or discipline or sheer bullheadedness they will not break the code they live by (and by code, I mean principles, philosophy, rules, laws or whatever it is they are into) even if it hurts them.  Because the 'Code' is their life.

The important thing is that this code/ rules system is codified into a series of strictures.  It's not hand-wavey or vague.  It's clear, defined and explainable to a layperson.

This is why I see Shizuru as LN at best, LE at worse.

Your Mileage May Vary.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 01:30:18 PM »
As I understand the alignment system, and I take my cue from D&D 3e on this, Lawful types have a set of rules, whether personal or external that they WILL not break.  Whether it's whim, or discipline or sheer bullheadedness they will not break the code they live by (and by code, I mean principles, philosophy, rules, laws or whatever it is they are into) even if it hurts them.  Because the 'Code' is their life.

The important thing is that this code/ rules system is codified into a series of strictures.  It's not hand-wavey or vague.  It's clear, defined and explainable to a layperson.

This is why I see Shizuru as LN at best, LE at worse.

Your Mileage May Vary.

I agree generally on principle (there are some finer points I could quibble over but won't), which is exactly why Shizuru's willingness to bend and break her own code when it's necessary is exactly why I don't think she would be lawful.

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If someone fitting that description engages her in battle she will simply brush them aside, avoid them, or ignore them - unless absolutely forced to do so.

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For a demon, she has a sense of honor; she prefers not to kill non-combatants, will not attack from behind or strike a downed opponent. The caveat is that if someone gets in her way, she will eliminate them.

It's those elasticity clauses that I think put her outside the Lawful camp. She has rules, rules that she doesn't break unless pressed. I call those preferences, not rules, as in she'd prefer not to break them. First and foremost though Shizuru is a self-interested survivor, not above abandoning the cause or finding a more interesting pursuit even if that would break the laws people abide by, and certainly not above breaking her own rules if her own survival is on the line.

Offline Shjade

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2013, 02:07:47 PM »
Yeah, she's probably not stringent enough on her guidelines to really call them "law." Neutral it is, then.

I'm still arguing for evil though. ;p

Offline Chris Brady

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2013, 02:42:28 PM »
I will fight to the bitter end against her being NE.  Neutral Evil types would whatever is necessary to further their cause.  Poison, backstabbery (which is a real word?  Awesome!), trickery or anything else.  Their code is often only used when it benefits them, and tossed aside when it won't.

If I can't have her as LN, then she's Neutral with Lawful tendencies.    :P

Offline Shjade

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2013, 03:59:37 PM »
Neutral Evil types would whatever is necessary to further their cause.

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Fighting is her primary interest and she will do almost anything if it promises to result in a challenging fight.

If her cause is fighting, sounds applicable to me.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 04:08:24 PM »
I will fight to the bitter end against her being NE.  Neutral Evil types would whatever is necessary to further their cause.  Poison, backstabbery (which is a real word?  Awesome!), trickery or anything else.  Their code is often only used when it benefits them, and tossed aside when it won't.

If I can't have her as LN, then she's Neutral with Lawful tendencies.    :P

Neutral with Lawful tendencies is still Neutral lol. Alignment is about the paradigm that defines a characters perspective, motivation, purpose etc.; Their 'guiding light'. Shizuru's guiding light definitely seems to be "Do what's best for Shizuru." Now that's not far from True Neutral to be sure, but considering that the other element to Shizuru's motivation in life besides survival is conflict and violence for it's own sake, I think you've got to go with some element of evil in there.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2013, 01:14:32 AM »
Enjoying a good, fair fight isn't evil.

Offline Shjade

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2013, 03:51:29 AM »
Enjoying a fair fight isn't evil.

Doing whatever it takes to start a fair fight probably is.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2013, 04:58:31 AM »
So, she does have a personal code of honor and follows it quite strictly.

This is what makes me think she's Lawful, FYI.

As for starting a fight...  Then just about every superhero and anime shonen hero is evil, especially Goku of Dragonball (and attendant series) fame.


Offline Shjade

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2013, 07:58:17 AM »
...no? Goku loves a good fight, but he doesn't go out of his way to start them. He fights when there's a good reason to fight: to protect someone else, in a tournament, when he's challenged, etc.

When I see "will do almost anything for a fight," I picture, say, you hear that the best fighter in the region lives in Village, but when you go to Village the guy says he doesn't want to fight you, that he only fights when he must to protect Village.

So you set Village on fire. Now you get to fight him, hooray!

Now, maybe that's not something Shizuru would do (note that setting the place on fire doesn't necessarily mean hurting anyone who lives there, so doesn't go against her code), but just going by the description I have to work with...

Offline meikle

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2013, 08:25:15 AM »
What an alignment means varies so much from person to person that I can hardly see the use in them at all.  They're a shorthand for something, but what that something is depends on who's reading it rather than who's writing it.  And once you start to explain what it means for this character, I mean, it kind of defeats the purpose of having shorthand anyway, right?

Going from the long-form description of a character to asking for an alignment is like asking what color this is:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Maybe you can summarize it (purple!), but there's no way you can capture all of the nuance, and you're going to have to pick which parts to ignore if you want to give the broad-strokes summary.  And nobody ever agrees on whether the whites, blues, pinks, or magentas are more important.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 08:34:55 AM by meikle »

Offline chaoslord29

Re: What alignment are these characters?
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2013, 09:05:38 AM »
What an alignment means varies so much from person to person that I can hardly see the use in them at all.  They're a shorthand for something, but what that something is depends on who's reading it rather than who's writing it.  And once you start to explain what it means for this character, I mean, it kind of defeats the purpose of having shorthand anyway, right?

Going from the long-form description of a character to asking for an alignment is like asking what color this is:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Maybe you can summarize it (purple!), but there's no way you can capture all of the nuance, and you're going to have to pick which parts to ignore if you want to give the broad-strokes summary.  And nobody ever agrees on whether the whites, blues, pinks, or magentas are more important.

Once again, Meikle to the rescue with the slightly ambiguous but %100 spot on answer to the discussion at hand. It works doubly so because her example proves not only the point she's trying to make as to the somewhat ambiguous nature of alignments and at the same time validating her answer's use of ambiguity to create a compromise.

Well done  ;D

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« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 11:24:02 AM by chaoslord29 »