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Author Topic: The education system - Industrialism at its finest  (Read 599 times)

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Offline KorenTopic starter

The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« on: March 20, 2013, 07:51:59 AM »
Im not really sure that this belongs completely in this board, but I know that on several occasions this has been a hot topic around here and that we are all aware of many problems that come out of the school systems, and have many differeny perceptions on how to fix them.

I thought that people might find this interesting in regards to this topic

RSA Animate - Changing Education Paradigms

The school system in general is not based off an educational perspective but rather an industrial and commerical one and that is its down falling in a lot of areas, especially as the focus is put in having results for students, and not intelligence and thinking and also teachers who are capable of delivering innovation to the system. I personally know a lot of teachers that could barely even speak english and a lot more teachers who were more interested in the school system and the schools reputation then the education and systems for dealing with the children.
The education system in finland is also a really interesting one to look at. The video here speaks about the increase of standardised testing, while in finland they only ever have a single one and they have a far smaller ratio between students and teachers and have an increase in the results of students coming out of that area.

Feel free to chat about that and I hope you found the video interesting

Staff feel free to move this if you think its in the wrong area.

Offline mayovagn

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 11:40:29 PM »
If you want to know how the education system was eroded to the point it has been then you could do far worse than looking up...

The Deliberate Dumbing Down

The free E-Book is available directly from the site.

Its a terse and still historical record of the hows, wheres and some speculation on why-fores on this thorny subject and is well worth consideration. Even if some of the author's allegations are dismissed by the reader, she is able to draw her own conclusions from the raw historical archival nature of the material presented.

Offline Kythia

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2013, 11:49:52 PM »
Just reading it now.  Hmmmmm.  I shall refrain from comment for the moment but I'm not inspired so far.

EDIT:  I'm sorry.  Apparently I lied.
Quote
Much of this book contains quotes from government documents detailing the real
purposes of American education:
• to use the schools to change America from a free, individual nation to a socialist,
global “state,” just one of many socialist states which will be subservient to the
United Nations Charter, not the United States Constitution
• to brainwash our children, starting at birth, to reject individualism in favor of
collectivism
• to reject high academic standards in favor of OBE/ISO 1400/90007 egalitarianism
• to reject truth and absolutes in favor of tolerance, situational ethics and consensus
• to reject American values in favor of internationalist values (globalism)
• to reject freedom to choose one’s career in favor of the totalitarian K–12 school-towork/
OBE process, aptly named “limited learning for lifelong labor,”8 coordinated
through United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization.

Only when all children in public, private and home schools are robotized—and believe
as one—will World Government be acceptable to citizens and able to be implemented without
firing a shot.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 12:17:12 AM by Kythia »

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 07:40:59 AM »
Our schools are not that bad how many leave school unable to functionally read and write and do math well enough for day to day life I would say pretty low overall. In fact globally we still rank in the top 25% of nations which is not bad. Further even if the schools are not ideal people can choose to self-educate at funny things called libraries or going on the internet or by learning skills on their own.

If a child is not doing well in High School then fine a parent needs to find out some other options maybe if the child has an interest such as art they need to get them working on being an artist, or learning a craft or find other ways they can make a living and bypass the schools but not keep them out if they opt not to homeschool. Summers would be good and Saturdays could be used for supplemental education.

Offline Ephiral

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 08:14:27 AM »
Just reading it now.  Hmmmmm.  I shall refrain from comment for the moment but I'm not inspired so far.

EDIT:  I'm sorry.  Apparently I lied.
Somehow I knew the moment I saw the word "deliberate" that it would be full of crazy conspiracy theories.

Our schools are not that bad how many leave school unable to functionally read and write and do math well enough for day to day life I would say pretty low overall. In fact globally we still rank in the top 25% of nations which is not bad. Further even if the schools are not ideal people can choose to self-educate at funny things called libraries or going on the internet or by learning skills on their own.

If a child is not doing well in High School then fine a parent needs to find out some other options maybe if the child has an interest such as art they need to get them working on being an artist, or learning a craft or find other ways they can make a living and bypass the schools but not keep them out if they opt not to homeschool. Summers would be good and Saturdays could be used for supplemental education.
So... Your argument is basically that the education system is fine because it doesn't totally fail everyone, it just massively underperforms. Oh, and people shouldn't rely on government to provide a civic good it says it will provide, even though they devote 35 hours a week for over a decade to getting it. I must be missing something, because frankly that sounds ridiculous.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 08:48:32 AM »
Globally our schools test at around in the top 25% and in that among the top 50% is average, depending on the study so our schools overall are adequate. My position is the legal guardian(s) aka the parent(s) are obligated to see their child is a productive adult since they are expected by law to provide for them in all other areas if they can (housing, food, medical care, emotional support and such) - unless I'm wrong on that but the law and seems to apply that way.

So if the child is struggling in High School and the standards are likely to prevent graduation or are not good schools, not unlikely in a smaller percentage of students in the system, then the legal party should take advantage of other options to go around the schools with a Plan B.

 



Offline Ephiral

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 08:55:30 AM »
Globally our schools test at around in the top 25% and in that among the top 50% is average, depending on the study so our schools overall are adequate.
And where does America rank in terms of resources at its disposal? Without looking at the numbers, I'll guarantee you it's well above the top 50%, and likely way above 25%. So no, that's not adequate, it's underperforming.

My position is the legal guardian(s) aka the parent(s) are obligated to see their child is a productive adult since they are expected by law to provide for them in all other areas if they can (housing, food, medical care, emotional support and such) - unless I'm wrong on that but the law and seems to apply that way.
And thus it's not a problem if the government says "We'll provide this part for you, just devote massive amounts of your child's time to it" and then completely fails to deliver? Not seeing how you're getting from A to B.

So if the child is struggling in High School and the standards are likely to prevent graduation or are not good schools, not unlikely in a smaller percentage of students in the system, then the legal party should take advantage of other options to go around the schools with a Plan B.
Or, y'know, the system should be fixed so that it provides what it actually promises, and people are no longer required to waste resources on no return in addition to effectively having to come up with an education plan themselves on next to no resources.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2013, 10:28:04 AM »
Globally our schools test at around in the top 25% and in that among the top 50% is average, depending on the study so our schools overall are adequate. My position is the legal guardian(s) aka the parent(s) are obligated to see their child is a productive adult since they are expected by law to provide for them in all other areas if they can (housing, food, medical care, emotional support and such) - unless I'm wrong on that but the law and seems to apply that way.

So if the child is struggling in High School and the standards are likely to prevent graduation or are not good schools, not unlikely in a smaller percentage of students in the system, then the legal party should take advantage of other options to go around the schools with a Plan B.
 

The thing is Ruby..given the sheer amount of cash we are pouring into the education system we should be in the top five.  We're not.. and we're going DOWN. 'No Child Left Behind' is an awful thing and I am so tired of the 'Standardized tests'. I literally saw the same five questions on one test 3 years running. (I got a fairly good memory) and it hasn't changed.. my nephew said the same thing when he got into high school six years ago.  You got school boards putting out cookie cutter lesson plans that aren't designed to educate but to indoctrinate.  They aren't TEACHING kids how to survive in the real world, they are teaching them how to survive a god damn test. JUST the test. And if you do bad enough consistently.. some administrators transfer or expel them.

Standardized testing DOES NOT work for all kids. I know a LOT of smart techs who literally had to fight their way into the rating they worked in the navy..why? Because the ASVAB was for a bit the beginning and ending of all that defined what you were eligible for in military service. Luckily the Navy is still a 'hands on' training group and I have had airmen who EXCEL in the work place but who have to spend weeks preparing for their advancement. Luckily the tests are curve, with your work performance helping a lot in how you score. If we operated on the NCLB foundation at least a 1/3rd of the airmen I mentored in the 15 years of service would never have made rank, achieved a rating and my Navy would have suffered for it. (At least 2 of them are now Chief Petty Officers and one is a Lt. and a Pilot.)

We need to renovate the education system. The arts, athletics and anything 'non-test critical' have been taking hits. We need to EXPAND the circulumn not shrink it. I personally think basic accounting, critical thinking and what is candidly called 'domestic arts' (cooking, housekeeping and nutritional planning) all need to be taught to kids in Jr. High. Not college in the case of accounting and critical thinking.

Now don't get me wrong.. by accounting I mean.. be able to balance a basic bank account and understand how to build a basic budget and understand the formula behind a loan or credit card offer. Basic and essential math. With implications in the real world.

Critical thinking is a skill I don't see some groups wanting their children learning.. but it's needed.

One of the reasons that I have totally washed my hands of the Tea Party was their 'We need to reform the system for the modern work force' and then they totally gutted it.

And to make it a clear and salient point on how we, Americans, regard the education system can be summed up in the following phrase. "Those who can't.. teach."

Which is UTTER BULLSHIT. We've turned our teachers into non-performers in so many ways, gutted their ability to protect and discipline our children. Rendered their most important skills, challenging out children and making them think, a bad thing. The move to privatize education is not the right move, and it's going to wind up disenfranchising a generation of kids before we pull our collective head out of our asses.

I was an AWFUL student at first. I was restless, inattentive and hard to teach. By the fourth grade, I was reading at maybe a 2nd grade level and worse at math. The letters didn't make sense and the numbers never lined up. I got put in the corner of my class room (behind the teacher's desk and partition where I could literally only see a 10 foot length of blackboard if I leaned forward and craned my neck. Not the best conditions for the fourth grade.  FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR. I never left the room on time, I never got recess and the only times I interacted with my classmates was during lunch.

The second time I went thru that grade I lucked out. The teacher figured out I wasn't the disruptive element, I was the victim of three class bullies (like the year before) and moved me. Then spotted my reading problems and got me into a pilot program for reading. I admit I was less than eager at first. The councellor worked with me though.. and it was like.. click. The letters started to make sense and by the time the program was shut down at the end of the year I was rapidly moving up in reading level. I read Jack London that summer while I was at the pool, and by the time I arrived in Ireland the next school year, I was trying out Bradbury, Tolkien and Heinlein. When I got back to the states 2 1/2 years later I was reading at a 600+ wpm reading rate with 90% comprehension rate. Not bad for a kid that my first 4th grade teacher told my folks that I was functionally illiterate and unteachable. (I shant tell you what my mom thought of that)

When I got introduced to the Irish education system it was a shock. I had gone from a class of 35 kids in one grade to a small one room school house with 3 grades in my class room. The kids I went to school with were already doing math problems in their head that I had to work through long hand. Long and slow. The teacher, Master Palmer, challenged us in our studies. I learned about history, literature (Patrick Peirce was one of my favorites from that time.. ) math and a strong introduction to the realities of the world. I learned quite a bit. Ironically my grammar was a problem for years... for some reason I spelled some words 'wrong' when I got back to the states (like color as 'colour').

In many ways he taught critical thinking. Occasionally cuffing one of the local kids, or me or the travellers that came by seasonally, by the ear when we did something stupid. My desk was old.. as in it still had an ink well old.

"Everyone has a spin on how they see things, boys, you have to look at what you're given and see how someone says something.. feel what the truth of their words." He told us. He talked with me when I hid in the classroom, being an American kid of Scotch Protestant decent in an Irish Catholic school wasn't always fun, and made me want to understand things. I went out and studied 'The Troubles' and let me tell you.. for a kid my age..that was educational.

By the time I moved back to the states I was a much different kid from when I left. Most of the kids I went to school with in North Carolina hadn't read up on current events or studied history. Most of the classes I had in history in the US was .. high school.

We USED to have vocational training to prepare folks for jobs that didn't require a college education. Not stupid people training.. but actual training. Perhaps we should accept that college isn't needed for everyone. Training in things like electrical or mechanical maintenance isnt' always a bad thing. If I had gone through the vocational track in high school, I could have taken a job with my great-uncle Earl and by the time I finally found my path at 26 with the Navy I'd have been running the refrigeration company that he ran with my great-grandfather. Pulling in 6 digits working in the sandbelt of SC doing maintenance on refrigerators in the chain groceries.

I had bought into the 'needs college' bs by then though.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2013, 12:06:32 PM »
I want to point out with politicians and teachers refusing to surrender their interests in education, a good number of parents shirking their responsibilities and the workplace the way it is your not going to get those kind of reforms as I see this education at the government side at best teaches the basics now. I agree not to well either for the money put into the system. So its only possible to hit the one area the government and business has no  real power over parents and the students.

Its pragmatic that is where you can make changes there are ample resources in most communities. There are four equalizers:

1. Mentors ,adults parents or not, who have skills and experience they can share with young people and yes train in skills.

2. Public Libraries an awesome resource paid for by tax dollars.

3. The Internet is a big library available anywhere you can get a connection, and dial-up is not expensive nor is very basic broadband.

4. The Community the schools may be awful but there is a community around the child what are they doing businesses, adults and others to educate children.

Simply put if John or Jane is in a bad school you can't fight it or likely make any real changes so don't try do what you can, use the schools for the basics and then use Saturdays and Summers and breaks to educate the children its not that hard to understand is it? Say Johnny is in a bad community with a bad school fine when he is sixteen couldn't he apprentice to a barber, chef, work on his GED, if he enjoys music work on that with mentors who have or had that as their profession as examples none require the schools do a thing.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2013, 12:21:49 PM »

1. Mentors ,adults parents or not, who have skills and experience they can share with young people and yes train in skills.

2. Public Libraries an awesome resource paid for by tax dollars.

3. The Internet is a big library available anywhere you can get a connection, and dial-up is not expensive nor is very basic broadband.

4. The Community the schools may be awful but there is a community around the child what are they doing businesses, adults and others to educate children.

1. Mentors still need time, access and materials to teach. Some of my best mentors were teachers.

2. Would these be the same public libraries that are being curtailed or shut down outright? I ask because here in Jax we have libraries being shut down or at least cut back in access times. There is talk to 4 days a week and closures here in Jax.

3. You don't honestly expect someone with no trained skills or idea where to look to get online and instantly learn?

4. Most communities work through the schools to train/teach/educate and support. Even more efforts are curtailed because 'we have the schools' as the logic to shut down extracurricular programs.

I'm sorry but it sounds like some handwaving and 'poo-pooing' that we don't have a problem. I had a teacher who had to quit because the school board couldn't afford to pay her, she'd gotten too many credits and was creeping past a masters in French and into a doctorate. I had another one, a music teacher who had to do work in THREE schools (grades 5-12) to keep working.

We can't assume that the public at large, given that more and more people are having to work harder to take care of their families, will cover the short falls of the public school system.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2013, 01:43:12 PM »
And your an idealist, education is what it is funding is not there especially in some states and communities and they are not going to jump at going to the old system of vocational education at technical High Schools and the like. Even if they did businesses might not fill the support and hire such graduates anymore. So what is the point of fighting head on?

I just think its a waste of time at this point.

So go around them and use what resources the system cannot directly control.

For example in your case libraries are still open so you can still borrow materials so the issue is? As for a computer and internet web sites and setting up resources is possible in fact the get around the system sort of network is completely viable. As for other options get creative its far more likely to be more effective than taking on education complex at this point.

Offline Ephiral

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2013, 02:07:59 PM »
Ruby, if you don't understand the difference between "access to information" and "education"... well, I don't think you'll ever get why it's a problem. ANd really? The system is what it is, why bother fighting it? That would've worked wonderfully for pretty much everybody ever living under any broken regime throughout history, wouldn't it?

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2013, 03:31:09 PM »
Ruby, we can't leave our educational system the way it is.  It's a mess, it's riddled with holes, and no, I don't care if the US is outperforming the rest of the world financially right now.  Key phrase being right now.  Lack of a solid education is going to catch up to us eventually - the people making the big bucks right now are guys who went to either private school or public school before Reagan was El Presidente.  We have a lead, and we are coasting on it.  And that lead is going to disappear when those people retire or kick the bucket.  Or both.

I'm in education, in a manner of speaking - I'm student teaching at a local HS so I can get my certification in Chemistry to teach kids.  I was in their shoes...say about 10 years ago.  And I'm shocked at the changes since then (though that may be partly due to geography - Midwest opposed to New England, where I am now).

It's been hard to think of just one thing to say in this post about education, but this is the thing I think I want to leave with.

Everyone deserves an education that will help them get through life.  But we, both in the school districts and in the homes, need to realize - A: kids are different.  I wouldn't have ended up in science if I hadn't discovered I was a horrible art student.  We need to let kids be able to fail.  B: Not everyone is going to get to go to a shiny Ivy League school.  Community college is not the ghetto that some people make it out to be.  C: There is no shame in not going to college.  I know plumbers and electricians who make enough money to comfortably support them and their spouse and 2.5 children and dog.  The skilled professions need bodies, and good ones.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2013, 03:51:38 PM »
And your an idealist, education is what it is funding is not there especially in some states and communities and they are not going to jump at going to the old system of vocational education at technical High Schools and the like. Even if they did businesses might not fill the support and hire such graduates anymore. So what is the point of fighting head on?

I just think its a waste of time at this point.

So go around them and use what resources the system cannot directly control.

For example in your case libraries are still open so you can still borrow materials so the issue is? As for a computer and internet web sites and setting up resources is possible in fact the get around the system sort of network is completely viable. As for other options get creative its far more likely to be more effective than taking on education complex at this point.

I'm an idealist because I think that the job of the public school system to teach kids how to think? I fail to see how requiring them to do the job they were once upon a time designed to do is a bad thing.

I've seen the product of the modern American education system. We can't continue to expect kids to magically learn how to learn. It takes focus, determination and willpower to learn. It takes someone who knows how, and that ain't a skill that should be denigrated and derided. And that is what is at the core of our problem.

We don't respect education anymore. We don't respect educators, learning or how much work it is to be creative. Educating yourself takes discipline, focus and at least a modicum of training.

And have you tried to get a library card in some areas? It's not the simple job that mom and dad walked me through when I was five. And would you trust a kid to walk 2 miles or more towards the nearest library? I did a quick google check. From my apartment the nearest ACTIVE library is 5.9 miles from my complex, and over 12 to the next. A quick check with a friend in the local area.. turns out almost 1/4 of all libraries in town have been shut down, torn down and/or emptied in the last 15 years.

Yeah.. it's an option to walk into a library and educate yourself.

Some people can't educate themselves through a book. As I pointed out earlier in a post. I've run into three basic types of learning styles, everyone has some measure of each.. BUT typically a person is best at one.
-Classroom learners. Folks who do best in a regimented instructional setting.
-Self Teachers. The folks who can do exactly what you say everyone should do.. pick up a book and do.
-Hand's on. Folks you put on the gear and walk them through once or twice..then stand back and let them do.. then help them through any mistakes.

I do well on all three.. but I'm more Hands on than anything else. The problem is..we're still largely stuck in institutional model set up in the 19th century. Understanding of learning has greatly improved since then, technology has changed..and the work requirements of students leaving the institutions have changed.

I am simply saying that there is a certain amount of inertia and laziness in the educational system here in the US that has crippled us as a nation in supplying our own needs. We are one of the first nations in the world.. yet we aren't even in the top ten educated nations. That isn't sad.. it's fucking tragic.

You say I'm an idealist.. fine. I can be one. I believe we can do better. I didn't belive in No Child Left Behind's BS when President Bush pushed it down our collective throat. I feel that it's pretty much failed from day one and done actual harm. The attitude of 'Learn on your own' is almost as damaging? How do you teach critical thinking to yourself? How do you avoid slipping into faulty thinking if someone who hasn't done the items before?

I'd rather speak to what we can BE, rather than what we are.. or what we can do for our individual selves.  It's 'We the People' not 'Me'.

Got to admit that you got a nice 'Randyan' outlook on how we should make by educationally. Not everyone is able to be a self-made person.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 03:59:14 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2013, 06:28:53 PM »
I've seen the product of the modern American education system. We can't continue to expect kids to magically learn how to learn. It takes focus, determination and willpower to learn. It takes someone who knows how, and that ain't a skill that should be denigrated and derided. And that is what is at the core of our problem.

This.  A thousand times this.  At the beginning of this week, my cooperating teacher and I announced that a lab we had done at the end of last week was going to be due at the end of the week.  The kids had been given a handout detailing what they needed to put into the report (this was a non-standard lab).  We told the kids that if they had any questions, here was when we were free, and we could also be contacted by e-mail.

After that day, I asked my cooperating teacher what she thought would happen with the three classes (same class, different sections) that had the lab report due on Friday (today).

One had, by virtue of the schedule, this upcoming Monday to hand in the lab.  She told me that they'll wait until the last minute, and then turn it in on Monday.  We'll see how this holds.

The other two had the due date today.  She told me about these ones that one of two things will happen.  Either they'll have a bunch of questions, and we'll answer their questions and push the due date into early next week - or they'll have no questions and all the reports will be in our boxes on Friday.

Monday goes.  Then Tuesday.  Nothing.  Wednesday and Thursday pass.  Still no questions.  Teacher & I are assuming that we'll see an inbox stuffed with lab reports come Friday - about 40-45, given the size of the classes.

At the end of the day?  I have two lab reports in my hand to be graded.  The other forty-odd students (in two different classes) claim that the instructions are 'vague,' and that 'I don't understand what the lab is asking,' etc etc.  We spend a good third of each class period answering questions about what's supposed to be on the lab...despite it being written in black and white on the page what we need.

That wasted third of the class comes back to bite the students in the ass when the topic we were supposed to be discussing for today, and the practice they were doing in class on said topic, becomes homework for them to do over the weekend.  Now, not only do they have to do their lab report, they've got a dozen practice problems for a brand new concept that they otherwise wouldn't have had if they'd done the lab report, or at least said "I don't understand!" earlier than now.

I asked my cooperating teacher about it, and she just said flat out 'they didn't do the work.  They got used to being treated with kid gloves the last couple of weeks because of standardized testing - classes with sophomores had to give out reduced homework, and most classes got only a half-period - and haven't really moved out of that state.

Offline Kythia

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2013, 08:37:29 PM »
If you want to know how the education system was eroded to the point it has been then you could do far worse than looking up...

The Deliberate Dumbing Down

The free E-Book is available directly from the site.

Its a terse and still historical record of the hows, wheres and some speculation on why-fores on this thorny subject and is well worth consideration. Even if some of the author's allegations are dismissed by the reader, she is able to draw her own conclusions from the raw historical archival nature of the material presented.

So....

That was a masterpiece of crazy.  I'm really sorry, but it was.  600 pages (terse?) of crazy.

To save anyone else here's the Kythia review you've all been desperately awaiting.

First the book very much seems to be preaching to the choir.  There are a lot of assertions made about sinister motives by, well, practically everyone that are in no way justified by the text.  The author seems to take it as a de facto truth - obvious to her and equally obvious to anyone reading - that the "socialists/fascists" (sic) have infiltrated every layer of the US with the goal of easing the way towards the UN setting up a one world socialist state.  She never really defines "socialist" but does refer to Belgium as a socialist nation.  I'm not sure that word means what you think it does, sweets.  So thats objection one.

Objection two took me a little while to articulate.  The book, except for where it relates to exception one, is freakishly well cited.  In fact, the bulk of it is nothing more than quotes from many different sources arranged chronologically to show the (alleged) progression of US education from its utopian beginnings to the current state where its sole purpose is to churn out robots suitable for pre-destined jobs in this global state. (As an aside she really hates soemthing called "New Math")

I didn't count them but at a guess we're looking at maybe five hundred quotes.  I equally didn't follow them up but I'm happy to assume they're mainly legit.  The issue here though is that education is a massive subject.  She's using academic papers, government reports, a lot of news articles from "The Daily Crazy Person" (that may not have been the exact name, I forget). 

So much has been written on the topic over the last couple of centuries and she's quoting only a paragraph or a couple of lines.  Essentially its a bible code she's got here.  Because there's so much information and she gets to pick and choose which words she includes its possible to make a convincing case for literally anything.  She never delves to a "Education....in....the USA is....aimed....at....creating....robots" level, they are full quotes.  But without going through and finding the original source for every single one of them and looking at the original context of the lines I'm absolutely confident that many if not most of them have been taken wildly out of context.

At first I gave her the benefit of the doubt.  That she felt these quotes were indications of the true nature, gnostic hints if you will, and that they had been deliberately buried.  So, she didn't feel she was "taking out of context", instead felt she was, I dunno, brushing away the crap to get to the true meaning.

HOWEVER.  I changed my mind.  She has, on the website linked, links to reviews.  One of them is from the "Washington Times", written in their title style.  "Really?" I thought "The Washington Times reviewed this steaming pile of nonsense?" (sure, I get that its a broadly right wing publication but its also a, you know, real thing.)  Following the link though reveals that the review wasn't in the Washington Times at all, instead it was on a website called World Net Daily (sample headlines for your edification - "Hoard this assault rifle before its too late" and an attack piece about "Kerry wishes 'prosperity' to Muslim regime").

There's no way that can be an accident, surely.  She's deliberately falsified reviews (and incredibly badly as well).  That kinda shot down the benefit of the doubt for me.

There.  Saved you a read. 

Offline Ephiral

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2013, 08:42:37 PM »
Worth noting: WND is very very well known to those of us who brush up against or monitor the crazy on a daily basis. It has yet to see a right-wing conspiracy theory or bullshit line it didn't love, and it's got a frighteningly large following. It's one of the louder voices in the right-wing alternate-news machine.

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Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2013, 09:45:01 PM »
(As an aside she really hates soemthing called "New Math")

I wonder if that's the same 'New Math' that I'm thinking of...

Tom Lehrer: New Math

(That's a lip-syncher, by the way.  The video of Tom himself doesn't have the visual aids.)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The education system - Industrialism at its finest
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2013, 10:12:46 PM »
I wonder if that's the same 'New Math' that I'm thinking of...

Tom Lehrer: New Math

(That's a lip-syncher, by the way.  The video of Tom himself doesn't have the visual aids.)

<curls up in the corner> brrr... Base 8.. base 16.. grey code.. binary.... binary coded decimal.. brrr.. .. bad memories.