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Author Topic: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!  (Read 12909 times)

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Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2012, 04:31:10 PM »
Everyone thinks their tantrums are justified, this is just one en masse. This isn't some great injustice, the game functions on a high degree, there's nothing fundamentally wrong, the endings are purely a matter of taste, a vastly unpopular one, but taste nonetheless. I hope Bioware puts its foot down. I'm not going to argue with it further.

I wouldn't do that either.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/13/mass-effect-3-and-the-pernicious-myth-of-gamer-entitlement/

Offline Heaven Sent Blossom

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2012, 03:06:09 AM »
The robotgeek article is interesting, however considering the state of "video game journalism" the rumours certainly need to be taken with enough salt to kill a large dog. I know the game has moved 3.5 million units so far, however the retail figures are a little harder to come by outside of the 890k first day sales from America and it's "chart topping" status (which is a terrible indicator to use, considering how retail chains make charts up a lot of the time.).
So far we know the shipped numbers are good, however sell through might take a hit from this backlash. I don't personally believe it will, however it will be interesting to watch how it all plays out either way.

The problem with trying to equate Star Wars subscription drop off with the backlash is a different one, I believe a lot of people will be hitting the end of their 30 day freebie around now. And attempting to tie any drop off with the Mass Effect situation would be kind of--shaky I think.

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2012, 10:44:36 PM »
Am I just crazy, or did they basically drop the Asari being able to read minds after ME1?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2012, 07:11:24 AM »
Am I just crazy, or did they basically drop the Asari being able to read minds after ME1?
You're just crazy. ;D

No, Asari could never just read minds in the traditional sense. They can do a kind of mind meld with other species and share in each other thoughts, but I imagine that an Asari who went around doing it willy-nilly would be considered a slut at best and a rapist at worst. :\

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2012, 10:20:40 PM »
Or, for that matter, how many people are cancelling their SWTOR subscriptions ( which may seem weird, considering they're not directly related ) and swearing not to buy future DLC.

Even if said "temper trantrum" ( again, being condescending doesn't help ) is justified? I can hardly think of a better reason.
On the SWTOR front, it's actually kinda twofold.  The first reason is that ME3 shares(d) the some of the same writers.  And the second, which leads from the first is, if ME3 can have a lousy ending, what's to stop them from butchering SWTOR in a similar manner.  That's the rational explanation, the REAL reason?

Word of mouth is still pretty powerful.  Hell, it's never been not powerful.  People are more willing to listen to their friends, even though they could be wrong, than actual facts.  So if one person says it's bad, then people LISTEN.  Even if that one person is talking out of their ass.

For the record, both Bethesda AND Valve have changed endings in their games due to fan outcry.  Bethesda changed the ending in Fallout 3.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
In the original, if you had only two choices.  Sacrifice yourself to the Radiation or send the girl in to do it.  Despite having a giant Supermutant nearby who was immune to it.  The second change had you waking up after the radiation burst to keep playing, no matter which you chose.

And Valve changed Portal's ending to fit that they were making a Portal 2.  As originally, there wasn't going to be.  But the fans demanded a second Portal.  And we got one, and it turns out it was a good thing too.  Cuz P2 is AWESOME.

And apparently, the outcry is turning to charity to help get their point across:  http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/mass-effect-3/1220719p1.html
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 12:44:12 PM by Chris Brady »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #80 on: March 16, 2012, 09:18:06 PM »
Fuck the endings. That's just crap writing or lazy writing or some kind of DLC grab. No, what I want to know is how you can possibly have 5K effective readiness without going multiplayer. How? I did everything I know how to do. I was meticulous. I think you need like a perfect save from ME1 and ME2. Because I know there are some things that I had that probably aren't available to the ME3 only character. I've made it all the way to the "Final Assault" and I'm still two thousand short! I can't believe that bullshit. I did everything. I got all the sides to the table, I hunted down and did all the sidequests. I scoured the galaxy for every piece of shit war resource and I'm still short. Screw this!

So again, fuck the writing. That's not the real problem with the game. It's the fucking multiplayer only thing. God, I thought they were doing something neat, offering people the chance to get achievements doing both, but noooooooo. The only way that doesn't involve insanity is to have an internet connection.

Fuck BioWare. At this point I hope they get smashed by all this negative publicity they've brought on themselves. Don't fix the endings. They. Fucking. Deserve. It! Hours wasted!

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2012, 09:33:33 PM »
I was 50 short without multiplayer.  Which I didn't do. And to be honest I fail to see how I cold have done much better. I had TWO systems below 100% explored at the end and I am willing to bet at least one was a wrecked fuel station.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2012, 09:43:54 PM »
I was 50 short without multiplayer.  Which I didn't do. And to be honest I fail to see how I cold have done much better. I had TWO systems below 100% explored at the end and I am willing to bet at least one was a wrecked fuel station.
I searched every system to 100 percent (some of them just don't have anything, and I still checked them after every priority). Reaper dodging is easy. I looked at guides, I went through that game with a fine-tooth comb and still came up short. I got everyone to the table, did every side quest. I went back to the Citadel again, and again, and again. Just to run around listening for hours trying to make sure I had everything. I talked to people multiple times, approved everything in the specter office. I'm not saying it probably isn't doable, I'm saying it's so fucking unfair it might as well not be doable at all, and not just from the have/have not multiplayer aspect. No. I doubt people who play ME3 only games are stuck out of it too. In fact, if you made one major renegade choice I'm sure you're fucked.

So, yeah. BioWare's not seeing a dime out of me again. Hell, I even liked Dragon Age II, but at least it didn't try to screw me over on purpose!

Offline Driskoll

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2012, 10:38:58 PM »
This is basically how I feel about the ending :P


Actually, this is how I really feel. I posted this a few days ago on Reddit simply because I needed to get it out. The ending was such a punch in the gut and some parts just made no sense to me whatsoever. I've fixed it a little now that I've calmed down a bit.

More Massive Spoilers Ahead

To address the issue of why I dislike the ending, I think I should start off with how much I love the series and ME3 up until the ending. I've been a devoted fan since ME1 and this series has had hands down one of the best videogame story arcs I've ever participated in. From the beginning Mass Effect was an experiment to combine a third person shooter with a RPG in a futuristic setting, something few have attempted as far as I know. There have been problems here and there sure, but overall the series has been more than entertaining.

In true Bioware fashion, the characters and dialogue in the ME series have been top notch. I've always found myself interested in the lives of Shepard's companions due to how well made and voice acted they all were. As an amateur writer myself, I've always liked what Bioware has done with the teammates. They're not afraid to put characters through hell for the sake of the story, and will even kill them depending upon Shepard's actions.

Getting to the issue at hand, the main reason I don't like the ending is simply because I don't think it's the ending Shepard and the rest of the people on the Normandy deserve. Almost all of them have gone through so much to stop the Reapers, giving up on defending their own homes to pool together at one small shot of saving the galaxy, only to find out the Reapers are simply "doing the work that must be done". If the really are there to eliminate organic advanced organic life simply to bring order to chaos, isn't there a better way? Brutally killing trillions and turning people's loved ones against them seems evil and sadistic, which is why the Reapers make such cool enemies. To find out at the end that they're really just bringing balance to the galaxy doesn't match at all with how they go about doing it. If you had to put down a creature for its own good, would you do it as humanely as possible or kill it slowly?

So that whole ending really doesn't work for me. Call me simple but I would have much preferred the destruction of all Reapers using the crucible. Predictable perhaps but also poetic in a way. Shepard and his crew would destroy the Reapers not just for themselves and the countless dead in their own cycle, but would use the very weapon every race from every cycle worked on to finally put an end to the madness. Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I need a "rainbows and sunshine" ending like so many reviewers have claimed about upset ME fans. Would I like to see my male Shep and Tali living together in a beautiful little home on her homeworld? Sure. Does that ending realistically match with the impossible task of stopping the Reapers? Not really. If Shep had to die to finally put an end to it, it would be a bitter pill to swallow, but I could do it. Instead of finding peace in a saved galaxy, he/she could find peace in death after making the ultimate sacrifice.

This has all been about my personal views on the ending, which has not even touched on the technical flaws as I see them. With the ending as it is now, so many questions are left unanswered. Why make a human reaper in ME2? How do the teammates you take to London end up on the Normandy and the garden planet for the end scene? Why is Joker leaving the battle through a mass relay at the time of Shepard's decision? I've even heard reports of players choosing the "destroy all synthetics" ending only to have EDI show up on the Normandy after being in London and step out onto the garden planet with Joker despite the fact that she should be dead. Unless I'm missing something there that's just bad.

I also have a problem with how the endings leave the races in general. I worked so hard to save the krogans and foster peace between the quarians and the geth, and now none of that means anything. They're all stuck in the sol system and will never get to reap the benefit's of having their problems fixed by Shep. Is this what Casey Hudson meant when he wanted players "debating what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in"? Yeah, I'm "debating" the endings alright.
   

Offline Heaven Sent Blossom

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2012, 03:14:56 AM »
Man, this ending could've been so much worse when you consider what a no talent hack Mac Walters is.
I'm just sayin'.

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2012, 03:31:15 AM »
I guess. But I don't think it's too much to ask to at least measure up to previous installments in the franchise. This is like Superman IV: The Quest for Peace bad here.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2012, 05:46:22 AM »
I think as a game it's fine. Above average material. I just can't support companies who believe in rewarding those with high-speed internet while punishing those without, especially in what was until then a single-player focused series. They could have at least given a bot version of the multiplayer to play through just so people could get galactic preparedness up. Nope.

That's why you're here on this list with Blizzard. Happy now?

(Square-Enix, is ironically there for my own personal disenfranchising  with what I believed to be their core values)

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2012, 11:49:24 AM »
I'll admit the endings were not the greatest but, hey I enjoyed the game and I like the MP.  I'm planning on still playing swtor and buying Dragon Age III when it comes out.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2012, 12:04:53 PM »
I'll admit the endings were not the greatest but, hey I enjoyed the game and I like the MP.  I'm planning on still playing swtor and buying Dragon Age III when it comes out.
I don't have a problem with the MP, I have a problem that MP gets a cakewalk single player game, and single player gets a functionally impossible single player game. What. The. Hell.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2012, 02:31:52 PM »
The big issue of the ending (from what I understand) is that it's too metaphysical.  Gamers don't (in general) like metaphysics in their games, unless that's what the game is about.  Anime fans are more lenient because the Japanese love to throw that sort of stuff at them, so they're used to it, whether or not they like it.

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2012, 03:17:38 PM »
The big issue of the ending (from what I understand) is that it's too metaphysical.

Haven't heard that one before, or seen issues that I could infer that from, personally.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2012, 03:26:33 PM »
The big issue of the ending (from what I understand) is that it's too metaphysical.  Gamers don't (in general) like metaphysics in their games, unless that's what the game is about.  Anime fans are more lenient because the Japanese love to throw that sort of stuff at them, so they're used to it, whether or not they like it.

From my experience on the forums and the "Demanda better ending for Mass Effect 3" Facebook page, the reasons are more along the following lines:

Ending Complaints - a small sample
Catalyst is an utter deus ex machina. Catalyst's "logic" does not make sense ( "We heard you didn't like getting killed by Synthetics so we sent Synthetics to kill you so you wouldn't get killed by Synthetics" - think Xzibit. ). Casey Hudsom said explicitly that the game wouldn't have an "A, B or C-type ending". It does. However, that might be an overstatement, because broadly speaking, all the endings leave the galaxy in the same terrible state: relay system gone, billions cut off, potentially starving ( all those Turians and Quarians in Sol? Dead. Everyone else in Sol? Dead a little later. ). Joker taking off with your teammates for no reason at all, crashing on a strange planet and somehow surviving despite his disease.

I have a few personal questions, too, that haven't really been addressed. In the Destroy option, the Catalyst says it will destroy synthetic life. I've thought about this, and even if we assume there's a technology capable of affecting only synthetic life, how do you define "synthetic life" - where are the lines drawn between synthetic and organic ( biological ), and between life and non-life?

Not to mention Mass Effect's message from the start has been one of perseverance in the face of overwhelming odds. The endings are a dramatic shift in theme.

Also. It ends on a total cliffhanger. A trilogy ends on a cliffhanger. It's like ending Lord of the Rings with Frodo standing above the volcano. Or Star Wars with Darth Vader looking from Luke to the Emperor, before it fades to black. Closure? I don't think so.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #92 on: March 17, 2012, 03:50:25 PM »
What I got, I may be mistaken, is that a lot of things aren't explained, an in some cases feel like more of a 'dream sequence' rather than a defined ending.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #93 on: March 17, 2012, 03:58:05 PM »
Dream sequence
What I think you're referring to is the "indoctrination theory", which states that everything from the point you're hit by Harbinger's beam is a hallucination - basically Shepard being tricked by the Reapers. If you're curious about the specific evidence and the finer points of it, just google it. It's explained very well in a lot of forum threads and youtube videos.

Edit: I hear this is a good explanation.

Mass Effect 3 - Indoctrination Of shepard.

Edit 2: What it amounts to is this: the evidence is so compelling that either BioWare meant for indoctrination to seem like a valid explanation, or their writers have absolutely no command on language, and unknowingly wrote an ending that hints so heavily at something they didn't intend that they should all be fired, their right to write forever revoked.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 04:26:10 PM by Hemingway »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2012, 04:32:55 PM »
The one about "What makes synthetic life" is pretty easy to explain.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The Crucible uses the mass relays to send a kind of kill code to all A.I. in the galaxy. Any A.I would basically be a computer program of varying complexity. Since organics don't use computer programing to function then they're unaffected.

The problem with big metaphysical endings is they're usually beyond plot holing by the virtue of "A wizard did it", or in this case
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Catalyst
did it.

Also, Hudson probably meant all the endings running the gamut from 0 prep to 5K prep. In addition to A, B, C.

I agree. It's pretty lack luster. They should've brought it back down to Earth.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Although I kind of get why Shepard has to die. He/she's touched the face of God, and you just don't go back to Earth after that. I would have liked to actually see a totally happy ending, but Angst is Art these days and if you can't have some bitter in there "people" hate it. By people I mean art-house snobs.

Still don't think the ending should be rewritten, but I really want to BioWare to slide down the knife a little more. Learn from this mistake. Lose some of the bottom line, and probably fire Casey Hudson. Though, I think he might be beyond that. Maybe then I'll go back. I just don't think it's artsy-craftsy story is its biggest flaw.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 04:34:13 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #95 on: March 17, 2012, 04:39:02 PM »
Well, the problem with the "kill code" - let's assume such a thing exists and the technology to distribute it is in place - is that it doesn't address the second part: what separates synthetic life from synthetic non-life?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2012, 04:45:56 PM »
Well, the problem with the "kill code" - let's assume such a thing exists and the technology to distribute it is in place - is that it doesn't address the second part: what separates synthetic life from synthetic non-life?
Oh, come on. "Does the tech exist"? It's fiction, it's been written in. That's not what's important. I imagine that it would be A.I. programing. I think it's generally very distinct (though in it's infancy right now) so anything that doesn't have A.I. programming (Which according to the ME Codex requires a "blue box" which is the term for the specific suite of programing needed to make A.I. Even reapers would have it, but it would be extremely complex.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2012, 04:54:47 PM »
Oh, come on. "Does the tech exist"? It's fiction, it's been written in. That's not what's important. I imagine that it would be A.I. programing. I think it's generally very distinct (though in it's infancy right now) so anything that doesn't have A.I. programming (Which according to the ME Codex requires a "blue box" which is the term for the specific suite of programing needed to make A.I. Even reapers would have it, but it would be extremely complex.

I know - that's the only reason I suspend my disbelief. Because, honestly, I'm having a hard time seeing how it would work in practice.

I don't think that's actually the case, though. Not with the Reapers - they're actually organic, and only partly synthetic. There's no evidence they require a blue box. And assuming that's the case, what if synthetic life evolves to where it doesn't need a blue box - to where it has essentially created a synthetic brain? It'd still be synthetic life.

And why wouldn't he just say "destroy anything with a blue box"?

Plot holes, that's why. They didn't think it through.

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2012, 04:58:08 PM »
Well, the problem with the "kill code" - let's assume such a thing exists and the technology to distribute it is in place - is that it doesn't address the second part: what separates synthetic life from synthetic non-life?

Geth ain't gonna get chicken pox. A krogan can't get a new body after burning the old one out from overclocking it.

Less facetiously, I can't even begin to grasp why that's a question you can't immediately answer or why, as written, it's a question that bears asking. Even in the context of the red ending, as written, I can't conceive of why someone would bring that up.

Plot holes, that's why. They didn't think it through.

It's a machine that every race for the last untold number of cycles have been working on for a singular purpose: stop the Reapers. The concept isn't difficult to grasp. It shouldn't come as a shock that it can actually do this when they talk about it the entire game.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3 Release!!!
« Reply #99 on: March 17, 2012, 05:02:33 PM »
Geth ain't gonna get chicken pox. A krogan can't get a new body after burning the old one out from overclocking it.

Less facetiously, I can't even begin to grasp why that's a question you can't immediately answer or why, as written, it's a question that bears asking. Even in the context of the red ending, as written, I can't conceive of why someone would bring that up.

It's a machine that every race for the last untold number of cycles have been working on for a singular purpose: stop the Reapers. The concept isn't difficult to grasp. It shouldn't come as a shock that it can actually do this when they talk about it the entire game.

"They've been working on it for a long time" is an excuse for poor writing and not thinking things through? You're clearly not seeing the bigger picture. Up to that point, everything involving synthetics has been, essentially, an exploration of what separates synthetic from non-synthetic life. It's a pretty deep question, especially when you extrapolate into the future.