My anime crew?

[TentacleFan]

Well, choosing a single anime is almost too hard to do. I'm going to cheat and drop a couple, for which I apologize, but I just couldn't do justice with a single entry, there have been too many anime and I don't think of things in terms of having a single favorite.

My first exposure to anime was as in the 80's watching Robotech, I greatly enjoyed it compared to american cartoons of the period and had several of the figures that went along with it. This was before I knew what anime was of course, it was just a cartoon I liked better than the Transformers and GI Joes of the day.

Then the first anime I discovered and knew that it was a "Japanese Cartoon" and also the first I had a physical copy of that I owned was the OVA Tank Police. I watched it so many times because how could I not love a show that was basically Dirty Harry with Tanks!  And it introduced me to the concept of catgirls too!

The series that turned me from a sometime collector of those expensive VHS cassettes to a full time collector of DVD (and later Blu Ray) Anime was Neon Genesis Evangelion. It is one of the shows I rewatch most often, and the one I have the most material of. I own it two times on DVD, plus the Original Movies (not as big a fan of the new movies myself) and numerous wall scrolls, posters, and figures.

As for personal connections with shows when you've watched as many as I have it gets a bit difficult. I do have a fondness for a few shows that I watched with my brother just because we got to experience them together, rather than the more typical experience watching things alone. Blue Seed was that way. I also watched Voice of a Distant Star with my best friend and his wife and I almost lost movie choosing privileges from her for choosing something that made her cry. 

[Haibane]

Pleased to meet another NGE fan, its my favourite of all time too and for me stands head and shoulders above all else.

But in "second" place I think I have about 20 titles

[Tiaan]

Ohhh, Dominion Tank Police... I think that was the first time I saw a cat-girl too, I remember I was really intrigued by those sexy twins! I had it on VHS as well; at that time in the UK the releases were so few and far between it was feasible to just buy anything that popped up on store shelves (kind of anyway). With no way of knowing what was on them or being able to watch them beforehand it was really just luck what you ended up with... Still, tank police was a lot of fun I remember. Stuff like Fist of the North Star and Urotsukidoji were a bit shocking for my young self <.< although both were enjoyable after I'd got used to them.

I've never watched Neon Genesis Evangelion; I looked into it once but there were a lot of releases to choose from.

Haibane/TentacleFan: Where's a good place to start with a franchise like that?

[TentacleFan]

Pleased to meet another NGE fan, its my favourite of all time too and for me stands head and shoulders above all else.

But in "second" place I think I have about 20 titles

Would I consider NGE my all time favorite? It's hard to say I have trouble singling one title out, but it would definitely be a strong contender. It is a show that pretty much every time I go back and watch it I'm struck by another aspect of it, the psychological exploration, the religious iconography, the character motivations, etc.

Ohhh, Dominion Tank Police... I think that was the first time I saw a cat-girl too, I remember I was really intrigued by those sexy twins! I had it on VHS as well; at that time in the UK the releases were so few and far between it was feasible to just buy anything that popped up on store shelves (kind of anyway). With no way of knowing what was on them or being able to watch them beforehand it was really just luck what you ended up with... Still, tank police was a lot of fun I remember. Stuff like Fist of the North Star and Urotsukidoji were a bit shocking for my young self <.< although both were enjoyable after I'd got used to them.

I've never watched Neon Genesis Evangelion; I looked into it once but there were a lot of releases to choose from.

Haibane/TentacleFan: Where's a good place to start with a franchise like that?

Yes the Puma twins were most intriguing to a then just entering high school boy as well. The strip tease to distract the inept SWAT team at the beginning was a much re-watched scene.  There was a time when I bought many of the titles coming through the US just because there was so little available, then I had to become choosier as more titles started debuting over here. Since there was no internet to speak of at the time I had blind buys based on things like the cover art, the copy text on the box, and so on. I'm happy to say I did alright with mostly titles I enjoy in my collection, occasionally I end up with something not so good. *looks over at the show Virus Buster Serge on my shelf*

I've heard much of the UK and it's introduction to Urotsukidoji which stirred up quite the scandal due to it's release in theaters. It's fairly well known here as the big introduction to tentacle porn but not quite as infamous.

As for Evangelion, I'd suggest the 26 episode TV show that started it all. It's pretty available on DVD and from a quick Amazon.com search seems to be around $43 American brand new, not sure how much it would be in the UK, for the Platinum Edition which was nicely remastered. The show is what most are referring to when they talk Evangelion.

[Haibane]

And I would certainly watch it through more than once. New things keep appearing that make you go "Oh my God! So that's what that meant!"

The story has so many tortured characters with tortured motivations and so much weird iconography that its perhaps the deepest anime anyone has made. That last remark might sound pompous but I promise you, its about the most complex and subtle story you'll see in a cartoon.

After the 26 episode TV show which has a metaphorical ending, and which disappointed so many fans, Gainax produced two extra films to cover the end of the story. One was called "End of Evangelion" and was in fact two episodes that replaced the original episodes 25 and 26 and one was a stand-alone film called "Death and Rebirth" which replaced the metaphorical ending of the TV series with a movie length 'real' ending. Its this one that I recommend.

Its not so much a replacement of the last episode, more an alternative set of events going on at the same time - while episode 26 mostly happens inside the main characters head, you could consider "Death & Rebirth" to be what is going on in the real world. The two complement each other.

I haven't seen any of the modern works at all. For me NGE ends with that second movie and that is enough for me. Modern additions such as the live action movies and the new animated movies are IMHO just cash cows - they add nothing to the original story. I'm sure they are very good but they are just not for me.

[TentacleFan]

I'm definitely in agreement with you Haibane. I'd almost go out and say all I really need to watch is the 26 episode show and forgo Death & Rebirth and End of Evangelion as I rather like the more psychological ending of episode 25 & 26. I do have and treasure the Manga (Manga the anime company) releases of both movies, they are exceedingly hard to find and very expensive online. I couldn't agree more that the show has so many layers to explore and that there was no need to continue to create the various new tellings they seem to pump out continuously such as the new movies and the various spin off manga.

As for the deepest anime one of the few I've found that had similar depth upon rewatching was Gainax's other show FLCL. It's a very different tale from NGE, more comedy wackiness, but it definitely has a lot going on in it's storytelling and I always find new subtext upon each new watching as well.

[Jag]

As for the deepest anime one of the few I've found that had similar depth upon rewatching was Gainax's other show FLCL. It's a very different tale from NGE, more comedy wackiness, but it definitely has a lot going on in it's storytelling and I always find new subtext upon each new watching as well.

FLCL is awesome. *nods* I cosplayed as Mamimi Samejima once (not that it was an overly difficult costume).

[TentacleFan]

Mamimi is so cute (although my favorite is the craziness of Haruko) I love the scene towards the end of the first episode where she's smoking on the bridge with her bent up cigarette and that song by the Pillows perfectly captures the mood.

[Tiaan]

Thanks for the info, you've totally sold NGE on me! Will be putting it to the top of my list of stuff to watch (after Zetsubou Sensei anyway).

Yes the Puma twins were most intriguing to a then just entering high school boy as well. The strip tease to distract the inept SWAT team at the beginning was a much re-watched scene. 

Haha! I can imagine it was quite a nice surprise to see that animated loveliness...

I've heard much of the UK and it's introduction to Urotsukidoji which stirred up quite the scandal due to it's release in theaters. It's fairly well known here as the big introduction to tentacle porn but not quite as infamous.

Oh I didn't know they showed it in theatres too! When I was playing my first MMO some people were talking about anime and I mentioned Urotsukidoji, some people were like 'urgh, I dont like hentai' and stuff, which felt weird cause I'd never thought of it as a hentai as such... but I mean, it definitely is. I haven't watched it in years but I seem to remember the story was still quite engaging, not just a string of sex scenes loosely tied together (although kids have a wider imagination, so I might just remember it like that because I was young when I saw it). I remember the sex scenes weren't so long and drawn out either (but I think it was a condensed version of a series in feature length form, so perhaps it had a more full on hentai feel originally...).

FLCL I tried to watch once but really didn't get it, I didn't get the jokes and I couldn't follow what was going on either... might've been my state of mind at the time, perhaps I should give it another go since a lot of people really talk highly of it.

[TentacleFan]

Thanks for the info, you've totally sold NGE on me! Will be putting it to the top of my list of stuff to watch (after Zetsubou Sensei anyway).

It's a great show, I hope you enjoy it when you get to check it out. I find it's a show that provokes a lot of discussion so when you do feel free to come around looking to converse.

Haha! I can imagine it was quite a nice surprise to see that animated loveliness...

It was indeed, fond memories. 

Oh I didn't know they showed it in theatres too! When I was playing my first MMO some people were talking about anime and I mentioned Urotsukidoji, some people were like 'urgh, I dont like hentai' and stuff, which felt weird cause I'd never thought of it as a hentai as such... but I mean, it definitely is. I haven't watched it in years but I seem to remember the story was still quite engaging, not just a string of sex scenes loosely tied together (although kids have a wider imagination, so I might just remember it like that because I was young when I saw it). I remember the sex scenes weren't so long and drawn out either (but I think it was a condensed version of a series in feature length form, so perhaps it had a more full on hentai feel originally...).

Yes, from the stories I've heard it was back when it first came out that it was in theaters which would be some time ago, early 90's I believe. I agree it had more plot than your typical hentai, just like many hentai have much more plot than your typical real-life porn.

FLCL I tried to watch once but really didn't get it, I didn't get the jokes and I couldn't follow what was going on either... might've been my state of mind at the time, perhaps I should give it another go since a lot of people really talk highly of it.

FLCL is jam packed with references. I know there are plenty that I don't get myself. I can see it could be hard to follow, it's definitely something that the more I watched it the more the layers came out and the more I appreciated it. For my part the references to other anime and such aren't as entertaining as the story and characters at the core of the show.

[Jag]

Not sure how many yaoi fans there are poking around in here, but the remake of Ai No Kusabi has been released. I watched the first episode (and only one so far). It's...oh my...so much more detail and depth to the characters. I still don't like the way Iason's face looks, I still think he looks ill and sickly, but he makes up for it in attitude. And I'm loving the look of Jupiter in the opening credits, even though they haven't show hir in the show yet (I say hir because I don't think it was ever made clear if the computer was feminine or masculine, though the original has it definitely looking female).

[Chris Brady]

I cannot recommend the first NGE series to anyone.  It's nothing more than one man's pornographic display of own his mental breakdown.  Everything in Evangelion is nothing more than his own personal issues, from his Oedipus complex to his father's domination.  In fact it was originally slated to run 40 episodes, but had to be cut to 24 because the anime watching public got sick of the sadomasochistic underpinings of the series.  Hell, they redid the ending because the first one made no sense, and the fans were threatening to boycott the station, at a time when that actually meant something.

There's a second series, more recent, which I've not watched so I cannot pass judgement on it.  But for my money, don't watch the first series, it'll do nothing but disappoint.

[Haibane]

Everyone to his own Chris, I don't agree with anything you said there because when watching NGE I see things that have meaning for me in my life and in what my parents did; they are universal things, part of the human condition, not just applicable to one person's experience. But saying to someone "don't watch this" is very negative. A person should watch as much as they can to experience as much different anime as they can - a broader experience means broader horizons.

FLCL would make a good anime for the MAD to discuss. I've seen it several times and don't get it at all but its endlessly fun to watch. I just wish I knew what the heck was going on! Would love to talk about it more with others.

[Chris Brady]

Yes, Haibane, my assessment of NGE is very negative because the wasted potential to do something different, instead the entire series wallows in negativity.  To the point where the 'bad guys' win.  Shinji never got to be more than a whiny emo lump because the series was set up for it.  There is no character growth, there is no resolution.

And my statement of Gainax having to cut the series short is fact.  As is the reason why there are two ending movies to it.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the rest.

As for Furi Kuri, it's really nothing more than a boy's coming of age story, with a typical 'and nothing changes' ending.  With a lot of silly references to other manga and anime and American cartoons.  It's silly fun, as long as you disregard the ending.

[Tiaan]

FLCL would make a good anime for the MAD to discuss. I've seen it several times and don't get it at all but its endlessly fun to watch. I just wish I knew what the heck was going on! Would love to talk about it more with others.

Yes, I second this ^^ There is a lot of craziness to try and understand in that anime...

[Haibane]

Yes, Haibane, my assessment of NGE is very negative because the wasted potential to do something different, instead the entire series wallows in negativity.  To the point where the 'bad guys' win.  Shinji never got to be more than a whiny emo lump because the series was set up for it.  There is no character growth, there is no resolution.

There are many tremendous works of art in other media, such as live action cinema, books and poetry that have hopeless themes and tragic negative endings where a main character is without redemption. The fact the story has a negative ending does nothing to detract from it's... well I'm going to use the word "splendour" because that's how I see it, nor does it make it weak, poor, bad, or any other negative connotation.

Why should a story have a happy ending? It was Hideaki Anno's intention to write a negative story based around his own emotional experiences. That he did so in such a spectacular way while clawing his way out of suicidal depression should be applauded, not denigrated.

As for Shinji not achieving any resolution or growing at the end, I feel that you've missed something there because he very definitely does. What are the final few seconds of Ep.26 about if that is not Shinji achieving something?

The series won several awards. Rubbish anime doesn't win awards.

The series is psychological, sophisticated, psychoanalytical and subtle and drew an audience far wider than anime usually does. The nationwide outrage at the end of the series was partly due to this wider audience, another measure of how good it is.

And my statement of Gainax having to cut the series short is fact.  As is the reason why there are two ending movies to it.

I beleive there were financial problems regarding the series generally (as there were with other projects by Hideaki Anno, such as Kare Kano) but the series was, so I understand, always intended to be a single full season of 26 episodes. If you've a reliable souce that mentions 40 episodes I'd like to read about that as I've never come across that suggestion before. 52 episodes would make more sense, giving two seasons. The reason the films were released was because a whole bunch of fans either didn't understand the ending or wanted a traditional ending (traditional as in a real world setting, not the psychological consummation inside Shinji's head at the end.

The two ending films aren't necessary at all. I understood the original ending, perhaps because I saw parallels in what my own family had gone through, but it satisfied the fans of the mecha and sci-fi elements of the series and it also made a damn fine 'real' ending. I love them both.

[TentacleFan]

There are many tremendous works of art in other media, such as live action cinema, books and poetry that have hopeless themes and tragic negative endings where a main character is without redemption. The fact the story has a negative ending does nothing to detract from it's... well I'm going to use the word "splendour" because that's how I see it, nor does it make it weak, poor, bad, or any other negative connotation.

Why should a story have a happy ending? It was Hideaki Anno's intention to write a negative story based around his own emotional experiences. That he did so in such a spectacular way while clawing his way out of suicidal depression should be applauded, not denigrated.

I couldn't agree more, there is room for works that reflect the negative feelings and emotions and aspects of life alongside the uplifting ones. I prefer to have a mix of options in the media I consume or art I reflect upon.

As for Shinji not achieving any resolution or growing at the end, I feel that you've missed something there because he very definitely does. What are the final few seconds of Ep.26 about if that is not Shinji achieving something?

That's something I really like about the TV version ending, the whole mentally working things out of the finale.

I beleive there were financial problems regarding the series generally (as there were with other projects by Hideaki Anno, such as Kare Kano) but the series was, so I understand, always intended to be a single full season of 26 episodes. If you've a reliable souce that mentions 40 episodes I'd like to read about that as I've never come across that suggestion before. 52 episodes would make more sense, giving two seasons. The reason the films were released was because a whole bunch of fans either didn't understand the ending or wanted a traditional ending (traditional as in a real world setting, not the psychological consummation inside Shinji's head at the end.

I've never heard about the show being longer than 26 episodes from any source I've come across either. I do know that there were budget  issues from what I've read. There were in Gainax's previous work on Gunbuster (the segment where it turns into black & white penciled art instead of animation) as well.

As for Kare Kano I believe a lot of the issues there were due to catching up the manga as it came out, a problem for many shows over the years. I did enjoy that show a great deal with the exception of the something like 2 1/2 episodes of recapping the show later on. Also the fact that it didn't even finish the story arc they were in let alone make it to the end of the manga. Luckily I have the entire run of the manga as released by Tokyo Pop before they went defunct. I enjoyed it till the end with the exception of the slightly creepy epilogue.


I'd be up for discussing FLCL if it gets a turn in the discussion group. I'll need to pull out my DVDs or BluRay of it and rewatch just to have it fresh in mind.

[Haruki]

Bah, life gets in the way sometimes.  >_>  So much catching up to do around here.

In my spare time though, late nights before I sleep, I have been taking in the above-mentioned Evangelion.  I also only have (and plan to stick to) the original 26 episode TV series.  The new iteration of movies they're doing are both just a cash cow and a re-telling for a 'modern' audience who may not be into all that psycho-analysis that the original series puts forth.

Said analysis, however, is EXACTLY what made NGE TV the series that no one could stop talking about back in the mid/late 1990s.

All this is beside the fact that it was also for me, the first anime series I picked up in my transition from VHS to DVD formats.  As such, it does hold that place in me.

KareKano (His & Her Circumstances) seems to do the same to an extent, though with a different setting, story, and characters, and exploring different aspects of life (especially romance and relationships with family and friends that surround us) that we struggle with, starting in our highschool years.  It also does a nice job of exploring how (most?) people take on one persona in one facet of their life....usually their public life, while their 'normal' persona is something completely opposite.  It's a bit more realistic than NGE in these respects (no bio-mechas, no post-apocalyptic setting), but both anime take a deep look into the human psyche and all its quirks.

GAINAX was always running into financial difficulties throughout the 1990s, partly because of the high expense of anime production back then, and because Anno himself (who's basically the 'president/CEO' of the studio) was in financial ruin at the time with his clinical depression bout in the early '90s (which also served as the template for the NGE storyline to boot).  Not until computer colorizing/ink/tweening techniques became the accepted means of doing animation work, do they seem to be more financially sound.  I'm sure the NGE movies are helping out as well.  They're a cash cow, no doubt, but in doing their job of bringing a new generation into the world and characters of NGE, those new fans may also go back and look at the more psychological explorations the original TV series and movies/specials of the mid/late 1990s put forth.

(I personally haven't seen the movie re-tellings yet.....someday maybe.)

One of the big reasons I stick with anime to this day is because it 'is' an artform, despite a lot of the cash cows and fluff (and yes, even some downright creepy things in there), if you dig deep enough, there's that gem of a series that has things balanced, or it's something that's one-of-a-kind that no one will dare to attempt ever again.  NGE falls into that camp as do some others.

[CmdrRenegade]

I recently finished Birdy the Mighty Decode 02.  I had watched 01 last year and been meaning to get to 02.  This was a really fun show with a cute ending and enough fighting to keep things interesting, though I thought Nataru felt forced as a character.  In addition, I'm nearing Episode 100 of One Piece and still enjoying it.  I didn't think I would be able to stick with it this long and still enjoy it, but Oda has done well so far.  There's thus far been only one filler episode, which actually developed a character (Usopp) instead of wasting time.  I was pleasantly surprised.

I'm going to have to be the voice of dissent on NGE.  I really liked it and all the psycholanalysis back in the day.  But nowadays I can't help but get the feeling that Anno was just making stuff up as he went along, while dealing with his mental issues.  The whole thing felt pointless after that. 

[Fieryone]

I am also an Anime fan, I've watched a variety of Giant Robot anime (Most Gundam, GaoGaiGar, Patlabor, Da-Guard, TTGL to name a few) I'm also a fan of most of the Anime we got thanks to Toonami, so I am fan of DBZ and the like.

Though as of late the only anime I've been watching consistently is One Piece, as I'm a pretty huge fan (still need to get through my back log), otherwise I spend most of my time watching Kamen Rider or Super Sentai.

[Nyarly]

Well, I'm a manga/anime-fan too. No surprise, considering my avatar and my past avatars (if anybody actually remembers them or me for that matter). I have some preference to more fanservice-y stuff, like Queen's Blade, Samurai Girls or Strike Witches. I think I watch a bit too much of those, though, and plan to watch more . Because of that I want to pick up one or two Ghibli movies the next time I buy new DVDs, since there are still some I haven't watched yet. Not to mention the ones I only saw in TV and have no DVDs of (yet).

I also like Slice of Life, Fantasy and Magical Girl stuff. Of the latter, my first wasn't Sailor Moon, but Card Captor Sakura, which is also partly responsible that I became a yuri fan (I read lots of mushy Sakura/Tomoyo fanfictions years ago). But my favorite is now Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha (at least the original series and A's) and I plan to get Madoka when it gets released here (the first volume is supposed to come out in Germany at the end of March).

Currently, more or less  (I tend to stall things a lot), I'm watching Record of Lodoss War: Chronicles of the Heroic Knight, Strike Witches (completely ridiculous in concept and execution, but I like it), Chii's Sweet Home and Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS. I also started (as in, I saw the first episode recently) Angel Beats (didn't hook me, but I'll watch more), Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai (my avatar is from it).

That said, I probably won't take part in group watching, since I don't have the luxury of watching anything I want to anytime. And while SZS interests me, I have not means of watching it at the moment.

[Jag]

Just got home from seeing The Secret World of Arrietty. It was great.


The Secret World of Arrietty - Official Trailer [HD]

[Haruki]

I can't wait till that comes out on home video in some form or another.  I really enjoy most anything that comes out of Studio Ghibli, and this one's the first since Howl's Moving Castle to get a wide release or any marketing push.  Then again, other than Ponyo, things have been relatively quiet with Ghibli.

Glad to see them back on the map though.  I've been reading good things about Arriety so far.

[Nyarly]

That's one of the Ghibli movies I consider buying next time (it's out on DVD here). But at the moment I'm more interested in Grave of the Fireflies. Maybe I'll buy it with My Neighbor Totoro and watch them in succession, like theaters in Japan did. If the things I heard about Grave of the Fireflies are even remotely true, I will need some Totoro after it...

And I still need to watch Howl's Moving Castle, which I bought some weeks ago.

[Jag]

I can't say that it's 100% accurate to the Borrowers books, but much more so than the original movie that was put out so many years ago (you know, when Tom Felton was still a little snot nosed brat instead of a sexy wizard), but it was really nice. Spiller is that kind of adorable crazy (the only other borrower the family meets in the movie). Arriety is strong, but very close to her family. Her mother is adorable in that 'Oh my god, I know he got ate by the cat, I just know it, it ate him, swallowed him whole, wewillneversurvivewithouthimohgodwearegoingtodie' sort of way.

The animation was just excellent and like most Ghibli films, you get to watch a non-speaking continuation of the movie through the credits. Just little things that finish up the story and let you know what happened. It's very nice.