You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 10, 2016, 06:36:23 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)  (Read 7703 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ReijiTabibitoTopic starter

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« on: December 19, 2011, 03:55:04 PM »
One of the favorite websites that I visit on a daily basis is That Guy With The Glasses, and all his affiliates (Nostalgia Critic, Linkara, Spoony, Angry Joe, etc etc...).  I recently watched a video from one of their posters about a trip many people from the website took to DC to protest SOPA, because the very premise of it endangers the very existence of TGWTG.

So I do a little more research, and I find that this is being supported by the RIAA and MPAA (big surprise there, they've been trying to shut down piracy for years), and that China is being held up as a good example of Internet regulation.  China, which routinely suppresses (from what I near) any anti-government sentiment.

Also, from what I've gathered, SOPA will not actually stop online piracy, because a lot of it is overseas, and SOPA only affects things domestically...

So, I ask: is this for real?  Freedom of speech and expression is the First Amendment, for God's sake!  How can people be seriously thinking of curbing it?

(Also, if I have made any errors in judgment, feel free to note them.)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2011, 05:24:50 PM »
The problem is that special interests are pushing this through. And they are winning this time. This had gone around before though, they tried to do this with cassette recorders, vcrs, cd-rs, and most recently mp3 players.

Word is that this is one of the worse events in a while.

I'm tired of calling my rep and senators about it though. Their offices think it's the best thing for business.

Offline ReijiTabibitoTopic starter

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2011, 05:30:16 PM »
So, lemme get this straight...cassette recorders, vcrs, and MP3 players, which help promote the entertainment industry, were being protested by the entertainment industry?

And how is censoring the Internet good for business?  If people are as in the know as most of the people I know are, then they're gonna know this is because of the entertainment industry, and take some boycotting measures against it.

The Internet generates far more revenue (from figures I've read) than the entertainment industry ever does, why are we suddenly considering cutting off one of the biggest sources of American revenue just to appease a bunch of dinosaurs who can't (or won't) keep up with the times?

Also, this has to be unconstitutional.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2011, 05:38:10 PM »
Back in the day, cassette recorders (as opposed to cassette players) were looked at skeptically by the record industry because it made it easy for some kid in his bedroom to record Dick Clark's Top 40 off the radio for free.  VCRs were looked at the same way by the movie industry. 

Offline ReijiTabibitoTopic starter

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2011, 05:43:19 PM »
True.  But in my opinion, that's not a technology problem.  Even if the United States hadn't allowed them, there would be other countries who would develop them.

A VCR or cassette recorder is just a piece of technology, it can be used for good and evil alike.

The problem we have is that the entertainment industry and apparently Congressmen think that the average American person can't be trusted to be ethical and moral and use technology responsibly.  This isn't tech, it's ethics.

Rather ironic, when you consider some of the things the entertainment industry and Congress have done in the past.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/08/riaa_wants_filters_for_end_users/

It's a few years old, but I always remember it.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 05:55:44 PM »
You're right.  It isn't technology.  It's ethics.  It's the unethical behavior of people who steal a song by ripping it from the internet without paying for it.  It's the unethical behavior of people who replicate those stolen songs and sell them for a lot less than you pay a site to download it legitimately.  It's the unethical behavior of people who steal the hard work and creativity of artists and authors. 

It's theft.  It's unethical.  It's criminal.  It's illegal.  It's immoral.  It's greed.  There is absolutely no way to justify the unethical behavior, no way at all. 

Offline ReijiTabibitoTopic starter

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2011, 05:59:33 PM »
Then, if it really is a problem of greed and unethicality, shouldn't that be what we address as a nation, rather than following the Internet policies of countries that wouldn't know human rights if it came up and bit them (exaggeration for effect only)?

Or is it just more expedient for the people leading this country to make a law violating the Constitution rather than say "I've done some things I'm not proud of, I've followed the party rather than my own conscience, and I need to change"?

Offline NotoriusBEN

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 06:07:43 PM »
It's theft.  It's unethical.  It's criminal.  It's illegal.  It's immoral.  It's greed.  There is absolutely no way to justify the unethical behavior, no way at all. 

Might I mention the current generation of DRM tech that practically punishes the legitimate purchaser of a product? Plus the fact that it's usually cracked within a week of launch dates.

Oh yes, piracy is everything you said it is, Beguile, but the lengths companies are going to in order to 'protect' their work has made me cross the line a couple times in the past. I wholeheartedly purchase what I use, but when some tech makes the product I purchase shoddy or unworkable on my PC I tend to start looking for ways past that and getting my money's worth.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 06:21:38 PM »
Companies wouldn't have to go to any lengths to protect their product from thieves if thieves didn't exist.  Punish the thieves?  Sure.  How much jail time and how big of a fine are we talking about?

There is not excuse for stealing.  None.  If you steal you're a thief. 

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 06:38:43 PM »
You're right.  It isn't technology.  It's ethics.  It's the unethical behavior of people who steal a song by ripping it from the internet without paying for it.  It's the unethical behavior of people who replicate those stolen songs and sell them for a lot less than you pay a site to download it legitimately.  It's the unethical behavior of people who steal the hard work and creativity of artists and authors. 

It's theft.  It's unethical.  It's criminal.  It's illegal.  It's immoral.  It's greed.  There is absolutely no way to justify the unethical behavior, no way at all.

Whereas cooking the books to defraud royalties, avoid giving health insurance to ailing artists, and outright lying to the congress and the public at large isn't.

The big site Megauploads got brought down lately and as a result a bunch of artists put together a video to advertise it's LEGITIMATE uses (yes, they exist. :D) and put it on youtube. It was entirely owned, and not derivative of anything else, by Megauploads.. and Universal Music claimed it was violating their IP/Copyrights and demanded it pulled down. An outright lie. And according to their lawyers, they can't be punished for it because they are covered by the DMCA.

http://torrentfreak.com/megaupload-video-reinstated-universal-says-you-cant-touch-us-111216/

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 06:54:29 PM »
Not everyone who acquired music thru internet connections steals it and not everyone in the business is out to cheat people.  But the wrongs of one group are no justification for the wrongs of the other.

Ethical behavior means that you do the right thing no matter what anyone else does.  I don't like being cheated but that doesn't give me the right to be a cheat.




Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 07:29:23 PM »
Not everyone who acquired music thru internet connections steals it and not everyone in the business is out to cheat people.  But the wrongs of one group are no justification for the wrongs of the other.

Ethical behavior means that you do the right thing no matter what anyone else does.  I don't like being cheated but that doesn't give me the right to be a cheat.

True.. I personally don't do that anymore. I lost all the stuff I got from napster on a drive crash YEARS ago. Most of my music is split between iTunes, Amazon and CD rips. I find it personally reprehensible that the recording industry for a long time claimed that I didn't have the right to play CDs.. much less rip them to my pc for my i-Devices.  And let's not talk about some of the nearly criminally stupid actions they have done for 'protecting' their IP.

Then they turn around and deliberately stall court cases to draw out costs, or in the case of a few artists.. delay covering medical insurance coverage they were obligated to provide so to avoid paying out big bills (I'm trying to recall which blues artist they basically let die of cancer by arguing over coverage over the better part of a year while he suffered.)

They promised congress that CD prices would go down.. then don't do anything. Production costs are lower than ever to make a CD.. but they pad their costs to justify higher costs and then cook the books to defraud their artists of royalties. I'm sure that more than a few execs still wish they could do deals like they did in the 50s and 60s where they basically ROBBED artists.

Record companies, and to a lesser extent the motion picture industry, would have us believe that they have the right to charge us for each time their song/video is played. And would LOVE to do that.

Hell I'm sure there are some who would like to charge us a nickle for qouting a movie or humming a song.

Offline Anjasa

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 08:01:23 PM »
The industries aren't adapting to technology.

To quote Gabe Newell, owner of Valve and Steam:

Quote
“Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem,” Newell said. “For example, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable.”

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/valves-gabe-newell-wins-readers-choice-person-of-the-year/

This guy makes his money by competing directly with pirates for business - and he's winning - because he's offering consumers better service.

The entertainment industries keep trying to force people to do things the old way - watch TV with commercials, wait in lines and pay exorbitant fees to watch movies, hope that your local CD store has the one you want in stock - but that's not what consumers want to do any more. People want to do things on their own schedule, on their own time, and to get the service they want and are willing to pay for.

Instead, they're spending all their time and money suing people for downloading or sharing their music/movies/show/game.

They're not adapting to the market and technology.

Moral ideologies aside, I think most of us can agree that the entertainment industries are trying to make us buy things their way rather than the way consumers are trying to tell them they want to buy their things. There's a huge service problem here.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 08:13:44 PM by Anjasa »

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 08:07:49 PM »
You know what's really sad?  When the first peer to peer client went up and people could 'pirate', record sales went UP by 30%.  In fact, record sales are STILL up, but it's actually bad for most record publishers because of things like iTunes.  iTunes makes it so that you don't have to buy a physical copy of said song.  Which is where the record companies still try to make most of the money.

And you know what's really funny about the whole Napster thing?  The reason why the record industry went after them was because the U.S. Gov' was looking into why CD's haven't gone down in price in over (at the time) 15 or so years.  So the record companies decided to make Napster the scapegoat to deflect attention from themselves.

Seriously, the amount of money these record companies make on each disk is stupid.  And worse, most recording artists get to see very little of it.  It takes about 7 cents to make and burn a disk.  15 if it's a DVD.  Less than an American quarter.  And yet you are all charged (I use iTunes, because I don't like bands, I like songs) about $15+ a pop for your favourite bands.

You don't need to spend that much for a disk.  5 bucks is good enough.  Seriously, most record companies have contracts with several multi-million disk sellers, and all they need to get is about 2 bucks, then another 3 for all the failed bands they support, and they'd STILL be making dough hand over fist.  But nope, corporate greed wins the day again.

And one more thing, did you know that outside of the 'true pirates' (the ones with an over inflated sense of entitlement) most people who pirate often BUY the article in question?  Why?  Because most people WANT to support their musician(s) of choice.

Is piracy bad?  Yes, it really is.  Is it industry destroying?  No, it's not.  Not by long a shot and not as much as the RIAA or anyone else trying to 'punish' it.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 08:20:08 PM »
One thing about all forms of  - I'll call it 'personal recording':  For a small-time band with no connections, that is sometimes the only way that they can get news of their music out.  People listen to cassettes and CDs in their cars, radio stations aren't as willing to take a chance on some 'no-name', and so we end up overloaded with stuff that sounds frankly recycled.  I found out about Abney Park (Airship Pirates) and Jonathan Coulter (RE: Your Brains) through CD rips and YouTube mashups. 

Offline errantwandering

  • Patron Saint of Vagabonds, Ne'er Do Wells, Insufferable Bastards
  • Suspended
  • Bacchae
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Location: Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • Wandering wind swept streets where black rain runs
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 08:42:57 PM »
Regardless of someone's individual views on piracy, SOPA attacks the problem with a nuclear warhead rather than a scalpel.  If a website is accused or suspected of hosting copyrighted material on any of its pages, it can be taken offline.  Advertisers can be forced to stop giving them money, DNSs can be forced to not recognize the URL, search engines can be forced to not show results for the page.

As an example, if someone accuses YouTube of having a video wherein a thirteen year old kid sings a cover of "Born This Way" without obtaining permission, Youtube as a whole can be taken offline.  Note that I didn't say proven to or convicted of, the mere accusation of something that minor can be used to force internet companies to make it seem like Youtube had ceased to exist, and to completely cut off their revenue stream.

SOPA is bad news.  It's a bad law that creates all kinds of dangerous precedents, and it is in complete violation of our constitutional rights.


Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 08:44:31 PM »
One of the most scary parts of this whole thing with RIAA and the Motion Picture Association is their attack on the copyright laws and the push to make them more restrictive ones. In my lifetime corporate lifespan of copyrights has nearly doubled and if they have their way it would be infinite. That is MASSIVELY restrictive on innovation.

Not to mention what they have done to attack 'fair use'

for example: http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/dec/05/book-record-industries-attack-righthaven-fair-use-/

I'm in school and on any given phase I write between ten to twenty papers requiring citation and quotation. If fair use went away, I'd have to PAY to cite every article, web site, video or ebook I use in my paper. And given that I have to post my paper on a website to screen for plagarism it would get very expensive VERY fast.

Back to the issue of SOPA.. its' a blunt hammer. You could sue a person, ISP, company for putting a video of your grandchild because 'Dead or Alive' is playing in the background.

Offline ReijiTabibitoTopic starter

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 08:56:04 PM »
I'm in school and on any given phase I write between ten to twenty papers requiring citation and quotation. If fair use went away, I'd have to PAY to cite every article, web site, video or ebook I use in my paper. And given that I have to post my paper on a website to screen for plagarism it would get very expensive VERY fast.

So, one could argue that something like this is anti-education, perhaps?  That people who would otherwise be able to afford school might not go because of the rising cost?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 09:10:28 PM »
So, one could argue that something like this is anti-education, perhaps?  That people who would otherwise be able to afford school might not go because of the rising cost?

Do a search on 'fair use' and see what it would effect. (it's a bit of a tangent) but fair use is more important than just education. It's the protection the media itself uses to quote writings, give critiques of movies and to pass on news to the public. One of my 'favorite' Blofeld Clones (Rupert Murdoch) has sued the BBC for using his publications in news reports. (Which was protected under fair use as any of his minion lawyers would have told him)

Fair use is the ability to say 'Mr. X said in the New York Times <this>' and call them a liar when they deny it. It allows reporters to pass on both sides of a story.

Offline ReijiTabibitoTopic starter

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 09:15:35 PM »
So, without fair use, the media and journalism itself would come to a grinding halt...at least, that's how it sounds.  And if that's true, then abolishing fair use would essentially, information wise, plunge us into a new Dark Age...

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2011, 09:20:02 PM »
So, without fair use, the media and journalism itself would come to a grinding halt...at least, that's how it sounds.  And if that's true, then abolishing fair use would essentially, information wise, plunge us into a new Dark Age...

Not that bad, but imagine paying a dime every-time you cited the NY times, or sang 'happy birthday' to your family. Not to mention your kid's research paper citing that history book, an online blog and such.

Fair Use length is fairly short (300 to 400 words) and you HAVE to cite who you are using.

Think about it, how would you give a movie review if you can't cite it? Or quote what a celebrity told E! or the folks at the NY Times.

Offline ReijiTabibitoTopic starter

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2011, 09:23:51 PM »
Sounds like something that would happen in the Deus Ex world to keep the population under control - you don't have the money, you can't do it...

...and that makes me think of the whole 'corporations are people, and money is free speech' bit.  If you have to pay to cite something, or use it...then that's dangerously close to putting the big bucks organizations as the only entities capable of doing it.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2011, 09:43:32 PM »
Sounds like something that would happen in the Deus Ex world to keep the population under control - you don't have the money, you can't do it...

...and that makes me think of the whole 'corporations are people, and money is free speech' bit.  If you have to pay to cite something, or use it...then that's dangerously close to putting the big bucks organizations as the only entities capable of doing it.

Which is why corporate personhood is such a dangerous precedent. just look at the actions of companys like Murdoch's Newscorp, or Monsanto.

Offline Will

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2011, 01:19:52 AM »
Not everyone who acquired music thru internet connections steals it and not everyone in the business is out to cheat people.  But the wrongs of one group are no justification for the wrongs of the other.

Ethical behavior means that you do the right thing no matter what anyone else does.  I don't like being cheated but that doesn't give me the right to be a cheat.

Condemning piracy is certainly an admirable thing to do, but it doesn't do anything to help the situation that breeds it.  Like you said, being cheated does not give you the right to be a cheat.  But, like it or not, on a large scale, cheating a giant group of people will result in them looking for other choices.  It's not a question of right and wrong; it's just reality.  So how do you fix it?  Tell them all that it's illegal and that they should just cut it out?  Or address the underlying motivations?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Is This For Real?! (RE: Stop Online Piracy Act)
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 01:37:49 AM »
Well look at Wizard's solution for ebook copying. They went from 'some legal and mostly illegal' to 'all illegal' by removing all electronic content they WERE getting paid for offline. You want ANYTHING of Wizards in pdf or ebook format.. forget it.

I lost like 2 dozen 3.5 books and modules from Drivethrurpg because I was on deployment duirng the 2 day grace period before they had to pull content.