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Author Topic: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children  (Read 2045 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« on: October 07, 2007, 02:25:43 PM »
[youtube=450,325][/youtube]

...wow.

Offline BK Geno

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Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2007, 03:45:08 PM »
... and if there was more to see, I might agree.

Hey, that rhymed!

Offline Swedish Steel

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 04:13:15 PM »
It might've rhymed, but it made absolutly no sense to me. What would you agreed with if there was more to see?

Offline Simon

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 03:25:35 AM »
How come this is not illegal?

Offline Brandon

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 04:38:39 AM »
I fully agree that testing like that should be illegal but I dont like this or any hidden messege in such an important presentation. They could have easily presented the facts without saying "when the industry wants something they get it from this administration"

Offline kongming

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 04:47:44 AM »
Also, mentioning Nazis causes you to instantly lose the argument.

Offline Simon

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 04:53:40 AM »
I found that to be rather fitting in this as doing like this is exactly what the Nazis did, well their doing was far worse but they are touching the subject very closely. I thought history would have learned us enough not to do these kinds of things any longer.
But I can agree, some of the statements sounded a bit too political, but then isnít everything nowdays?

Offline Brandon

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 05:01:07 AM »
The Nazi part really didnt bother me so much. The Nazi's experimentation on humans gave the scientific community a better look at human anatomy and what the body can stand over time. If that kind of testing had never happened I dont believe we would have ever come up with the idea of kemotherapy(sp?) or other radition therapy used to fight cancer because it would have just been to risky to the patient. Its true that the atrocities made by the Nazi's were absolutly horrible but in the end I think something to further mankinds understanding of our own bodies came out of it.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2007, 05:33:22 AM »
I don't think the Nazis came up with that one.  Chemotherapy came from something quite bad, but it came from testing the chemical agents used in mustard gas.  The deceased from those attacks were studied in an effort to develop a theraputic use for those chemicals.  Those that died from mustard gas had an extremely low white blood cell count, meaning the gas attacked developing white blood cells.  This was an obvious benefit to those with severe lymphomas.  To my knowledge, very little benefit came from the expierments of those Nazi camps.  A large part of that could probably be traced to lack of scientific methodology.  Wasn't as if the entire scientific community could check those resutsl and duplicate those tests.  By the way, the mustard gas study was done by the United States.

Offline kongming

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2007, 05:38:38 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

They did some actual scientific research - seeing as the results would be for their own benefit, they did the job properly, too.

Offline Swedish Steel

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2007, 06:05:19 AM »
I fully agree that testing like that should be illegal but I dont like this or any hidden messege in such an important presentation. They could have easily presented the facts without saying "when the industry wants something they get it from this administration"

I agree. They should follow the republican's lead and always stay dignified and never take cheap shots at the opposition.

Offline Simon

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2007, 06:16:27 AM »
I agree. They should follow the republican's lead and always stay dignified and never take cheap shots at the opposition.

I sense some irony in that statement my good sir.

Offline Brandon

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2007, 06:23:33 AM »
Its not about being a democrat, republican, liberal or whatever to me. Anyone can present their case without needing to bash other parties the difference is many choose to go through with the bashing as part of their agenda and I dont like that

Offline kongming

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2007, 06:31:59 AM »
I agree with you there, Brandon. They all do it, and they shouldn't. That kind of primary school behaviour should have stopped, well, in primary school.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2007, 09:50:02 AM »
I can't believe anyone would actually believe that what the Nazis did was a good thing.  Those were human beings REGARDLESS of the knowledge that was gleaned!  My criteria for such things is simple... are the benefits worth allowing the experiments to be done on myself or my child? 

If chemical companies pay people to ingest pesticides who will pay the long-term medical expenses of the damage that's caused?  There's always someone stupid/desperate/addicted enough to accept money for doing something moronic, should companies be able to exploit that?

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2007, 09:54:42 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

They did some actual scientific research - seeing as the results would be for their own benefit, they did the job properly, too.

Be careful blindly trusting wikipedia... note the cautions at the top of the page and remember that the information posted there isn't necessarily factual.  As a matter of fact, I assume it isn't until further researched.

Offline kongming

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2007, 11:08:46 AM »
Now, I never said I approved of their methods used, regardless of the benefits gained, but if you *do* pay someone to undergo these things willingly and with full understanding of what's happening, along with providing all medical help you can if they are harmed, then that is something that can improve society with minimal loss of life. But the idea of chemical testing on children repulses me. Likewise the Nazi chemical testing.

And I'm well aware of the problems with "I read it on Wikipedia, it must be true".

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2007, 11:21:12 AM »
And how is it enforced that they pay for medical care that results from such things?  They file Chapter 13, reorganize, and welfare is burdened.  I can't condone giving companies free rein to exploit people who are willing to risk their health for a few bucks.  I don't see that as very different from using prisoners or the mentally impaired for experimentation.

Offline kongming

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2007, 11:42:48 AM »
How then would you propose it be done? Let us make the false assumption that we can keep companies honest here. Perhaps have it always monitored with lawyers - or even law enforcement - present, and slam them hard for any neglect.

Now, personally, the way I think these things should be tested is to spread them over the surface of the entire planet. You might wonder how effectively virus-bombing the entire populace helps, but from the perspective of someone who wants the end of the world, it makes perfect sense.

But how would you improve people's lifestyles? I'm not going to use a strawman and claim that you want us to remain in the dark ages of technology, not trying to develop new things.

Offline BK Geno

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Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 09:43:41 PM »
It might've rhymed, but it made absolutly no sense to me. What would you agreed with if there was more to see?

Because when I posted it, there was no video, not after waiting for a good while (read 10 minutes) might have been my browser though. But still... Wow does begin to cover it. Like saying a flood is slightly damp.

Offline Brandon

Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2007, 09:49:40 PM »
I can't believe anyone would actually believe that what the Nazis did was a good thing. 

Lets be a little more accurate here. I never said that what the Nazi's did was a good thing I said the research they did on the human body ended up benefiting mankind. The means used to gather that research were in fact horrible but the past cant be changed so I at least think we should use what they learned to benefit our future. For the record, my facts on Nazi experiementation dont come frome Wikipedia, they come from a great deal of research from a 12 page report I submitted in high school (which I got an A+ on)

I have to agree with kongming though, if this kind of thing would become legal the companies should be required to give all the facts to the subjects, pay for medical care for the subjects, and the department of health and welfare should be watching them closely.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Bush administration supports chemical testing of children
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2007, 10:57:57 AM »
I didn't think anyone was cheering the experiments the Nazis did, sorry not to be more clear.

Of course I'm not saying that we shouldn't advance technology, but I am saying that doing so responsibly takes more work and more time, which is worth the extra effort to some of us.