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Author Topic: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita  (Read 3040 times)

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Offline ValenciaTopic starter

A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« on: June 13, 2011, 06:26:46 PM »
Alberta Tar Sands- The biggest act of environmental genocide going on at present. Here's why:

The Tar Sands are a deposit of oil that is dispersed amongst the upper levels of the soil. So what do the big wigs do in order to obtain this oil? First, they clear cut the forest. This isn't just any forest, it's the 10,000 year old Boreal. I don't think I have to explain why that is bad, any first grader can tell you. Then, they completely remove those upper levels of soil, so nothing can grow back. The process then used to separate/refine this oil takes several barrels of natural gas, 6 barrels of drinking-quality water...to produce ONE barrel. And this isn't even good oil. Because it isn't a concentrated deposit, it has alot of other residuals in it, so it burns dirtier than regular oil, which means MORE pollutants.

You can see the waste ponds from this process from space.... FROM FUCKING SPACE! The destruction is already the size of Delaware...and the entirety of the deposit is the size of Florida.

And guess what? Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita have all said that they will continue to use the Tar Sands oil to fuel their businesses. My response: Boycott the fuckers. There are much better ways to do business than this.

Offline Trieste

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 06:39:20 PM »
Can you please post where you're getting this information from? A quick google turns up some information. However, I wasn't able to verify the details of the refining process you named, nor the details about the forest itself.

Offline ValenciaTopic starter

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 07:05:32 PM »
Greenpeace is a good resource for information on the Tar Sands.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 07:08:01 PM »
I'd be keen to know more precise information on this too, and I wonder, why would the friggin' banana giants be interested in drilling for oil in the subarctic parts of the Northern hemisphere? The taiga belt of coniferous woodland - Russia, Scandinavia, Quebec and so on? That's neither their home field nor their kind of industry. Or have Dole et al. just pledged to keep using a particular kind of oil that's from this layer?

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 07:19:41 PM »
You're stating yourself that this kind of oil is hard to process and doesn't give great fuel in the end. To Dole and Chiquita it would be pretty much indifferent where the oil comes from, so any sane abd rational person in those corporations, if they wanted a steady flow of good oil for their needs, would push for oil and gas exploration in the Arctic - which is in the starting pits of course! Now I don't support drilling for fossil fuels in the Arctic, it poses tremendous risks to the ecology, I'm against it for sure -  but that's the kind of policy Dole and many others would be likely to support from their own economic ends, isn't it?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 07:20:58 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Trieste

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 07:26:01 PM »
I looked at Greenpeace's website, and I found this blog entry and this campaign page. Both of them are quite heavy on emotional language and light on facts, but the second one had some links. One of the pages linked talked about water pollution, but the detail is again sorely lacking.

Nowhere on Greenpeace's website can I find a link to these companies you have named.

If you're going to call for a boycott and talk about how these companies are somehow contributing to the destruction and carnage, it would be greatly appreciated if you would provide an actual reason for the boycott. Preferably with reliable sources. (And Greenpeace, because of its heavy bias, only barely counts as a reliable source.)

Additionally, I'm not sure why boycotting these companies is especially effective as compared to, say, working to actively reduce one's consumption of fossil fuels. It strikes me as one of those stop-gap good deeds that makes you feel better about your contribution to the environment, but which does not actually contribute to a long-term solution.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 07:30:41 PM »
Anyway the present strain of fat, succulent bananas will very likely have dropped out of commercial production in a few decades and some other strain will have taken over. The banana is the most heavily genetically developed food plant in the world, so by being so refined and being a plant that essentially copies itself from generation to generation - almost no reshuffling of the genes - it's very vulnerable to diseases.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 07:41:23 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline ValenciaTopic starter

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 11:11:02 PM »
This is the grassroots org I'm working with for public actions on this subject. http://stoptarsands.org/

The reason being is that these companies have stated that they will continue to use the oil that comes from the Tar Sands. A demand causes the suppliers to supply. Therefore more deforestation, strip mining, water pollution, etc.

The average banana travels 3000~ miles to reach it's consumer. Dole and Chiquita ship their products using diesel derived from Tar Sands oil. Safeway gases up all of it's trucks with the same.

Consumer power accounts for something. It may not be alot, but it's something. And that's a whole lot better than nothing. My fossil fuel needs are pretty small. I don't own a car; I get around by foot, bike, or the best public transit in America. ( WOOT! Trimet! ) I buy a lot of local goods, and yes, my house is heated on natural gas, but we have a high-efficiency furnace and modernized insulation to reduce the amount we consume. And I try to convince people to do these kinds of things everyday.

Offline Revolverman

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 11:17:15 PM »
This is going to come off as a dick, but it needs to be said. If you don't want anything to do with the oil sands, burn your computer, take your house off the grid, and start growing your own food. the Oilsands are about the biggest source of oil for all of North America. There is almost nothing you can touch that doesn't exist thanks to the Canadian oil sands.

Offline Noelle

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 12:00:07 AM »
I think a dose of realism is nice, but so is a bit of centrism, as well; everyone could do with curbing their energy consumption, on the whole, regardless of this issue. While there may not be a way to completely remove yourself from anything connected to this industry short of taking yourself off the grid entirely, I think the promotion of responsible usage is good, nonetheless. Unfortunately, Revolverman does still have a point -- until alternative fuel sources are made cheaper and more accessible, oil dependency is hardly on the decline.

There is a lot of work to be done, but at the same time, you have to be mindful of not proselytizing others to the point you turn them away from your cause entirely (think Jehovah's Witnesses showing up at your door D:).

Offline Jude

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 02:14:03 AM »
Greenpeace is a terrible organization and an unreliable source of information.  When they're not spreading misinformation about companies who refuse to release to them the details of their manufacturing processes and other trade secrets, they're campaigning against DDT usage in countries that have a gigantic malaria problem and convincing starving people to reject offers of GMO crops on the basis of absolutely nothing (aside from the naturalistic fallacy of course).  They're right next to PETA on the list of insane activists.

Offline ValenciaTopic starter

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 04:49:37 PM »
@Noelle: I've been doing activism work for a long time, so I hear ya on not sounding like a douche. I respect people's right to their own opinion, just as I reserve the right to disagree with it. I can't force anyone to change their standpoint, just bring them information and express myself.

@Revolverman: Yeah, I'd love to do that. But the reality of the situation is that I can't. Like alot of people, so I have to use what little clout and all of the drive I have to be able to effect change. To sit idly by is just about as big a crime, in my opinion. (Sidenote: I do grow some of my own food. I share a communal organic garden with my sister and a friend of ours. Once we are in the full swing of harvest, I will pretty much be eating my own food entirely)

@Jude: Slighty off-topic, but .... nah, I won't touch this. I share the view that GMO is bad juju, and giving it to starving people is just plain and simple, fucked up. Not because those people deserve to be starving, that's definitely not where I'm going with it, but it's just that GMO is harmful in several ways that I won't get into right now. There have been countries that have refused to use, or have even burned the seeds that have been sent to them by Monsanto because they don't want to bring those problems down on their own heads.


Offline Trieste

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 04:52:27 PM »
I think the point was actually that, if asked for a source, Greenpeace should not be the first place you point to because it is not always reliable.

Offline Revolverman

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2011, 05:50:42 PM »
@Jude: Slighty off-topic, but .... nah, I won't touch this. I share the view that GMO is bad juju, and giving it to starving people is just plain and simple, fucked up. Not because those people deserve to be starving, that's definitely not where I'm going with it, but it's just that GMO is harmful in several ways that I won't get into right now. There have been countries that have refused to use, or have even burned the seeds that have been sent to them by Monsanto because they don't want to bring those problems down on their own heads.

Ok, besides Monsanto's abuse of IP laws when it comes to the seeds, WHAT exactly is wrong with GMO? Hell, all food is GMO, we just called it Selective breeding back in the day.

Offline ValenciaTopic starter

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2011, 06:19:56 PM »
My primary deal is the whole Monsanto's ability to snatch farmland away from the people, and how if that goes unchecked we could run into a serious problem. There's also additional talk about other shady dealings with that company and food, including potentialities of the declining bee population. But that's a completely different subject. 

And also, selective breeding is one thing; you breed together parents in the hopes of having offspring with a particular quality. Using golden needles and petri dishes to alter the genetic structure of an organism goes against my spiritual beliefs. And I don't feel they should be able to patent an organism.

If you want to eat GMO, be my guest. It's not the kind of pollution I want in my body, though.

Offline Will

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2011, 01:10:42 AM »
My primary deal is the whole Monsanto's ability to snatch farmland away from the people, and how if that goes unchecked we could run into a serious problem. There's also additional talk about other shady dealings with that company and food, including potentialities of the declining bee population. But that's a completely different subject. 

And also, selective breeding is one thing; you breed together parents in the hopes of having offspring with a particular quality. Using golden needles and petri dishes to alter the genetic structure of an organism goes against my spiritual beliefs. And I don't feel they should be able to patent an organism.

If you want to eat GMO, be my guest. It's not the kind of pollution I want in my body, though.

None of that speaks to the actual quality of the food itself.  Objecting to it on moral grounds doesn't make it unfit for consumption by starving people.

Offline Oniya

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2011, 03:30:00 AM »
If you want to eat GMO, be my guest. It's not the kind of pollution I want in my body, though.

And if the starving people want to eat GMO?

Offline ValenciaTopic starter

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2011, 08:27:58 AM »
That's their prerogative, I'm not attempting to judge them. Some have shown that they would rather starve than have Monsanto swoop in and take control over their farms, and therefore the foodsource. The 'quality' of this food doesn't follow the whole 'if it looks like a duck'. It's more like a trans-species chicken that really has duck looks and quacks too. But in the end, it's not a duck. In my opinion, it all seems pretty shady.

DNA is structured very specifically. To tamper with the actual structure of it affects us in ways that most don't believe nor comprehend. I'm not trying to sound like an egotist, or say that I'm smarter than you or any of that bullox. It's just that in this instance there's alot more disinformation than there is truth.

Offline Trieste

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2011, 08:30:58 AM »
... still waiting for the information about what this has to do with Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita. Did I miss a link posted, or something?

Offline Oniya

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Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2011, 08:42:10 AM »
I do hope that neither you nor anyone in your immediate circle becomes/is diabetic - or suffers a burn, needs an organ transplant, or develops cancer.  Insulin for diabetics has been made using genetic engineering.  Antihemophilic factors are mass-produced through genetic engineering.  Human albumin (a significant portion of blood plasma, which is frequently needed when treating severe burns) is mass-produced through genetic engineering.  Many monoclonal antibodies, used for the treatment of things ranging from arthritis to cancer are mass-produced through genetic engineering.

It is not the shady industry that you seem to be implying.

Offline Caeli

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2011, 11:38:46 AM »
... still waiting for the information about what this has to do with Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita.

I would like to second this; I'm interested in seeing how those companies are involved, but I don't consider Greenpeace to be an adequately unbiased, reliable source.

Offline Valerian

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2011, 11:57:51 AM »
Since I can never resist a research topic:

http://www.fooducate.com/blog/2011/06/06/if-you-need-to-ask-its-probably-genetically-modified/

According to that, 93% of soybean crops in the U.S., and 86% of corn crops, are already GMOs.

Quote
Which means that any product you buy with soy protein (energy bars), soy lecithin (chocolates, deserts), high fructose corn syrup (beverages, sweets, snacks, breads), corn syrup, meat derived from animals eating corn & soy (which is most factory farmed meat), Doritos and Tostitos, etc… is made with genetically modified ingredients.

U.S. companies (unlike those in Europe) aren't required to label foods that use genetically modified ingredients, so if you live in the U.S., you've almost certainly been ingesting them for some time without knowing it.


As for any evidence outside of Greenpeace that those three companies are leading the drive to exploit the Tar Sands, no luck there, I'm afraid.

Offline Zakharra

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2011, 12:42:08 PM »
The average banana travels 3000~ miles to reach it's consumer. Dole and Chiquita ship their products using diesel derived from Tar Sands oil. Safeway gases up all of it's trucks with the same.

 Unless you can provide a link saying that these companies get the fuel for their trucks and ships -specifically- from the company that mines the tat sands, anything you claim will be seen as bogus and nothing more than emotionally driven rage.

Offline Jude

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2011, 02:54:24 PM »
DNA is structured very specifically. To tamper with the actual structure of it affects us in ways that most don't believe nor comprehend. I'm not trying to sound like an egotist, or say that I'm smarter than you or any of that bullox. It's just that in this instance there's alot more disinformation than there is truth.
DNA is hardly structured at all.  For example, human DNA has the remains of long-dead viruses from thousands -- perhaps even millions -- of years ago.  There are long strands of junk, sections which lead to horrible genetic diseases, and lets not forget how copying errors and radiation screw up even perfectly fine strands.

DNA isn't really some carefully balanced equation designed by a brilliant mind -- that's an unsubstantiated creator fallacy that rejects the obviousness of evolutionary biology -- it's a code for building an organism piecemeal that was assembled from the longest trial and error process that life on earth will ever know.

That doesn't mean unintended consequences couldn't arise from its manipulation, perhaps scientists could copy over a section of DNA and accidentally drag along some unintended genes.  It isn't a delicate process, but mistakes can still be made.  Which is why we've had these crops tested for their safety repeatedly.  My understanding is that on the whole most GM foods have passed with flying colors, but if there is any evidence that a particular GM crop is dangerous, it obviously should not be distributed (I think that's a non-controversial opinion).

The problem with Greenpeace is that they opposed GM foods before any research was done and have continued to do so after even in cases where the food's safety was vindicated.  Greenpeace is an organization of ideologues who want reality to fit their opinions, when they should be structuring their opinions to fit reality.  That is commonly called delusion.

EDIT:  The economics of GM crops is a totally different subject though.  It isn't a scientific question, and it's no where near as clear as the safety one.  I don't feel like weighing in on that beyond saying that there are a lot of valid criticisms in that arena.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 02:56:03 PM by Jude »

Offline Zakharra

Re: A Big F*#% You to Safeway, Dole, and Chiquita
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2011, 03:14:27 PM »
And also, selective breeding is one thing; you breed together parents in the hopes of having offspring with a particular quality. Using golden needles and petri dishes to alter the genetic structure of an organism goes against my spiritual beliefs. And I don't feel they should be able to patent an organism.


 Emphasis (the bolded) added. That right there pretty much disqualifies your rant as anything but emotional raving.