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Author Topic: League of Legends  (Read 143246 times)

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Offline Gavlois

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #900 on: September 10, 2012, 11:42:11 AM »
When you run into a party like that in Normal, it's amazing.

Offline Panduhmoanium

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #901 on: September 10, 2012, 11:46:38 AM »
I thought they didn't exist for quite some time until yesterday. I had to stop and notice that I was the only one saying anything back to the other team when they would start talking shit lol.

Offline Spell

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #902 on: September 10, 2012, 07:40:35 PM »
I can't believe I found this thread after it has been in existance for so long. *Feels stupid* >< Plat EUW SoloQ player here playing toplane mostly, played on NA for a long time before going to EUW
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 07:42:24 PM by Spell »

Offline Samael

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #903 on: September 10, 2012, 09:03:31 PM »
What is your ELO, Samael?

1150 right now.
I used to be at 1350 by duo'ing with a friend, but one day I decided "I should soloQ Support!"
I dropped down to 950 in 2 weeks... I had the worst kind of players imaginable.
Now I worked my way back up, and it really is true: Expect your team to be absolutely stupid, and don't plan on the Jungler to come and help you.

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #904 on: September 10, 2012, 09:31:43 PM »
Bigger problem of course, is that the opposing AD carry + support lane can just safe farm while hopefully outharrassing you and then beat you late game and with Bot taken your team really needs an AD carry that can hold a solo lane. Not saying it can't work, I just don't see how it could an Autowin.

Honestly, you wouldn't even need to harass. You'd just need to make sure you didn't get pushed out of lane yourself, then farm all day. Rammus + Sona should lose to AnyADCarry + support in the mid to lategame: they can't really stop the carry from farming, and the carry will scale much better with farm than either Rammus or Sona will.

Basically, unless the Rammus/Sona pair can successfully be aggressive as hell and kill the opposing laners repeatedly, they lose the lane. Even just having equal CS would be losing the lane.

Offline SneakyGuy

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #905 on: September 10, 2012, 11:53:50 PM »
So it is the fabled EloHell place, Samael... Yeah I guess things can be really bad.

Offline Samael

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #906 on: September 11, 2012, 03:26:58 AM »
So it is the fabled EloHell place, Samael... Yeah I guess things can be really bad.
Bad is... an understatement.
But I try to get out of that place.
With a decent duo partner I usually win a lot more games than I lose, although soloQ you're usually with 4 other people of which one, or mostly two, will be feeders.

From what I gather Elo hell is everything up to 1600, after which the people get better, although I watched a 2.2k streamer last night who had a troll, too.

Offline Spell

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #907 on: September 11, 2012, 05:35:17 AM »
Bad is... an understatement.
But I try to get out of that place.
With a decent duo partner I usually win a lot more games than I lose, although soloQ you're usually with 4 other people of which one, or mostly two, will be feeders.

From what I gather Elo hell is everything up to 1600, after which the people get better, although I watched a 2.2k streamer last night who had a troll, too.

Elo Hell is relative though, it's really how one perceives it. While it is true that there are more trolls and griefers in lower Elo games there simply isn't a magical number where 95% of the players will behave better and never make ''stupid'' mistakes. People will always make bad plays at any kind of Elo, sadly it isn't a badge saying ''I'm not gonna troll ever and be an awesome player all the time''

To clarify, in higher elo games there are more people trolling in champion select than in lower (This tends to happen around the 1700-1900 mark) simply because a lot of those people are only willing and have the mindset to play one and one role only since they got to that elo with that role. People are afraid to step out of their comfort zone so they resort to forcing the team to adapt/work around them, or forcing them to dodge (Since dodging has no Elo penalty now)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 05:47:03 AM by Spell »

Offline Tick

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #908 on: September 11, 2012, 05:07:39 PM »
I can't see an AD holding solo lane, it is like a happy meal for junglers. Even Ez and Corki, who are masters of escape will have problems and either loose their life under the turret or loose turret. Perhaps, in a somewhat odd game, when Teemo is picked as a solo top counterpick to someone and you actually have a team without "real" AD carry...  But it will be highly situational.

A few Ad carries can get away with it actually, Vayne is one of the big cases of this, she is actually being considered as a possible counter pick solo tops since she counters several tops. There is also urgot, though he is not really a carry as much as an anticarry(AD caster is the official designation). I've seen ashe's do very well solo lane. And then of course graves cause... well.. its graves. Also, taking exhaust on anything will make tower diving nearly suicide. Teemo is less of a carry and more like some weird hybrid kinda like Kayle.

I haven't been to Elliquiy in a while and sad to see I missed a thread like this :(.

They generally nerf the champs that get a ton of tournament play between tournaments. :/

This kinda makes me feel dirty at times. My group started jungling nautilus cause one of our guys did very well with it, I played him in ranked a few times, did very well, month later, he becomes fotm and gets nerfed. Same thign with jax, had a 8 win spree on ranked then stopped playing jax because he became popular(I like playing obscure characters) and then he gets nerfed  as well about 2 months later.

Waiting for swain to get nerfed this time <-<.

And on the note of arcade sona, like the skin, but I like pool party ziggs more. Rubber ducky of death, what more do you want in life?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 05:14:13 PM by Tick »

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #909 on: September 12, 2012, 12:49:39 AM »
Also, taking exhaust on anything will make tower diving nearly suicide.
Unless the diver takes cleanse.

Honestly, Nautilius needed a nerf. Might still need one; he's fucking strong.

Offline Tick

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #910 on: September 12, 2012, 02:02:59 AM »
Unless the diver takes cleanse.

Honestly, Nautilius needed a nerf. Might still need one; he's fucking strong.

Oh no, you won't hear me disagree, jax is the same way. I just mean it makes me feel bad knowing that the chars I enjoyed were overpowered, and I wasn't actually good with them. I was really proud of my jax game till I heard he was being officially nerfed.

Two people I am waiting to get nerfed though, Veigar(Insane aoe short cooldown stun with his dps and aoe capacity, if you can last hit at all, he is awesome) and fiddlesticks(Despite people's complaints, his ult has one of the highest AoE DPS in the game, if not the highest, while being uninterruptable, and usable while in zhonyas, I believe it actually beats kat's(I haven't looked at kat's new numbers, I know fiddles gave her a really close run for her money before) throw on his ungodly long fear, aoe silence, and an ability that heals him for a fraction of the damage you deal to him along with a base amount.. He has very very few weakpoints. Something they nerfed ahri for.)

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #911 on: September 12, 2012, 02:09:17 AM »
Fiddle is easy to murder in lane and his ganking is easily countered.

How are they nerfing jax?

Offline Tick

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #912 on: September 12, 2012, 02:24:30 AM »
Fiddle is easy to murder in lane and his ganking is easily countered.

How are they nerfing jax?

Depends what you define as easily counterable. His fear, if he levels it without putting points into his silence, is actually rather long, 3 seconds at max level. While it doesn't do damage, two people wailing on you in that time period and the lane CCing you after his fear wears off is kinda nasty early game, even if its only half that, say 1.5 seconds. That is a solid hard CC during the timeperiod. He has to sacrifice clear speed for it though. Not saying the fear itself is overpowered(though I do think it is ungodly long) but the numbers on his ult are kinda insane for something that is nearly impossible to stop if you get stuck on it(due to forementioned fear), and even without being fed, the base damage is very high. the entire thing will do 1625 at level 3 if you stay in it the entire time which will nearly kill most AD carries, throw on the scaling(2.25 for the entire thing) And with say.. 500 ap he will hit for over 2700 to everyone inside, whichw ill kill most AD/AP carries inside, and cannot be interrupted. Kat is 600 with 1.75 scaling now, Nunu is 1125 and 2.5 scaling. Both of which are interruptable and they can't do anything during their ults, while fiddles can move, cast spells, and can't be interrupted in any way. The only way to counter a well placed fiddle's ult is flash, or knockback. The former being on a really long cooldown(unless you have a spell on your character that can replicate flash). Strong CC, very strong single target(fear+drain) and decent(not great, but decent aoe in the form of the bouncing crow silence). He lacks real weakness besides a lack of escape, in teamfights and as a jungler.

Just numbers wise, Fiddle's has incredibly good scalings and base damage for teamfight utility.

As for Jax, he got nerfed on his empower and something else a couple of months ago.

Offline Spell

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #913 on: September 12, 2012, 03:24:27 AM »
Depends what you define as easily counterable. His fear, if he levels it without putting points into his silence, is actually rather long, 3 seconds at max level. While it doesn't do damage, two people wailing on you in that time period and the lane CCing you after his fear wears off is kinda nasty early game, even if its only half that, say 1.5 seconds. That is a solid hard CC during the timeperiod. He has to sacrifice clear speed for it though. Not saying the fear itself is overpowered(though I do think it is ungodly long) but the numbers on his ult are kinda insane for something that is nearly impossible to stop if you get stuck on it(due to forementioned fear), and even without being fed, the base damage is very high. the entire thing will do 1625 at level 3 if you stay in it the entire time which will nearly kill most AD carries, throw on the scaling(2.25 for the entire thing) And with say.. 500 ap he will hit for over 2700 to everyone inside, whichw ill kill most AD/AP carries inside, and cannot be interrupted. Kat is 600 with 1.75 scaling now, Nunu is 1125 and 2.5 scaling. Both of which are interruptable and they can't do anything during their ults, while fiddles can move, cast spells, and can't be interrupted in any way. The only way to counter a well placed fiddle's ult is flash, or knockback. The former being on a really long cooldown(unless you have a spell on your character that can replicate flash). Strong CC, very strong single target(fear+drain) and decent(not great, but decent aoe in the form of the bouncing crow silence). He lacks real weakness besides a lack of escape, in teamfights and as a jungler.

Just numbers wise, Fiddle's has incredibly good scalings and base damage for teamfight utility.

As for Jax, he got nerfed on his empower and something else a couple of months ago.

Fiddle gets hard countered by anything with interrupts though. While I do agree that Fiddle's damage on his ult is on the high side it it justified for his ult being so extremely difficult to set up, fiddle is one of the squishiest champions in the game, and you ulting in a team is basically an invitation for saying ''Please focus the AP carry''. If you are doing so much damage and people need to disengage people will simply use Shurelia's or any other type or CC to stop you or even kill you.

If we look at Kat though, she has more teamfight potential than Fiddle, while she may not be an initiator like him, she actually does more sustained damage than him simply because all her spells deal damage and she isn't useless after her ult because of Sinister Steel, Shunpo, and her cooldown decreases on assists.

Offline Tick

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #914 on: September 12, 2012, 03:55:29 AM »
A quick statement, I am not complaining or outright saying fiddles is OP. What I am trying to point out is that based on numbers, fiddle's is surprisingly underplayed and underestimated for what he is "capable" of based on numbers and I expect, personally, that he could be a sleepy dragon waiting to be discovered.


On the contrary, Fiddles is not limited by the "interrupt". Unlike kat, nunu, galio, his aoe ult is not interruptable and even if you stun him, it will continue to deal damage. as for the squishy factor. You have to remember his drain which hits for 900 and 2.25 scaling and heals him for 80% which is far better then spellvamp on kat. In fact, spell vamp on kat is marginal, since all her attacks are AoE and thus spellvamp is deminished(spellvamp only works at around 1/3 on aoe or damage over time,f or those not aware) So with 20$ spellvamp on kat, its really only healing for aroun 6.5% which is a joke compared to fiddle's heal. His terrify is on a 11 second cooldown max level, but with 40% cooldown thats around 7 seconds which means that 3 of every 7 seconds one of your damage dealers is probably going to be feared(unless they take cleanse. Drain would be on a 4 second cooldown or less and is a 5 second channel which means he can keep it up perpetually, or if you interrupt it, just has to zhonya's and  he gets the cooldown back by the time it wears off.

The kat cooldown reset arguement is a good one except when you think about it this way, say kat manages to get her ult off twice in one teamfight, that is still just barely better then fiddle's one ult. And is interruptable, so is easy to ruin, where as fiddles can zhonya, move, chase, drain, whatever he wants. On top of that, his cooldowns are so low it really doesn't matter, where as kat has some pretty nasty cooldowns. Kat needs them due to her own cooldowns being rather long. And statement, is that kat also has no CC whatsoever, but has better non ult AoE damage. In an actual fight, fiddle could just fear kat anytime she ults, th eonly thing Kat could do if fiddle's ults is shunpo out, after the 3 second fear+ the silence

If they enemy team focuses the fiddle, any compitent fiddle will just zhony and then they are inside the ult during it. And by the time the ult is a monstrosity in teamfights, you should be expecting your team to help keep them in your ult. Sona ult, malphite ult, any number of AoE CC+single target CC can help engage and keep them in fiddle's ult.

The one thing I think sort of balances out Fiddle's ult, is that it takes really good timing and awareness to get off well.

Fiddle's could or could not end up being OP, just his numbers are insane and it reminds me of naut and voli who people don't recognize as strong at first, then suddenly start noticing them. Fiddles has some really nasty numbers, great team utility and extremely strong sustain. I am expecting to see him as FOTM sometime, but that is based mainly on his numbers.

Offline Spell

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #915 on: September 12, 2012, 04:28:22 AM »
I still feel that Fiddle is best played as a counterpick at best, I never stated he was a bad champion, but I absolutely don't have the feeling that he is 'sleeper OP' or anything of the kind, while on paper his potential is good and his lane sustain is probably one of the best in the game I feel that is laning phase is mediocre at best against the more popular AP mids. I never claimed the ult itself to be interruptable, I was talking about the wind-up time.

While admittedly Fiddle's ult is devastating if coupled with the right amount of CC, you have to admit that there will always be counter CC's and ways to disengage. I'm not even gonna talk about the Spellvamp issue here cause Ignite is pretty much the most broken thing ever now for mages who rely on spellvamping to stay in fight.

As far as cooldowns go, Kat's cooldows are pretty low too if you flow everything into Sinister steel, admittedly, unlike Fiddle who will probably be more than happy to enter/init a 5v5 teamfight Kat has to stay up and play cleanup. Also, all of Kat's spells (Lest for Shunpo) hit multiple targets and can contribute to the Voracity passive, and the ability to reposition multiple times over the course of a fight make Kat very powerful. Numberwise in a teamfight Kat can do more damage than Fiddle, plus, with the current focus on positioning and zoning in the current meta people will be wary of both ults and capabilities, it's a different story once someone is caught out, but I digress.

I'm not saying Fiddlesticks is a bad champion, not at all, his fear is pretty annoying and an AOE silence can be pretty devastating, but I do feel he is more or a situational/counterpick if anything.


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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #916 on: September 12, 2012, 10:38:33 AM »
I think what people are saying about Fiddles ult is that while it isn't interruptable after he finally casts it, he is quite vulnerable to being interrupted for the 1 second cast time it takes before it actually goes off.  Any stun or knockback/knockup during that one second will waste his ult.  Even if he does get it off, there are several ways to avoid it.  Roots, knockbacks, knockups, slows, flash, various teleporting abilities, and a few items that people can get which would negate his ult.  Then there are other less desirable ways to weather the storm, as it were.  Shielding abilities and such which can soak up a chunk of the damage to bring them out alive on the other side.  So, by himself, using his ult is not really a death sentence for a whole team though it's likely he will take out one champion because of his fear unless they have enough health/MR or a cleanse to get rid of it.  A team fight would be another story because there are other champions to worry about in addition to Fiddles.

Offline SneakyGuy

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #917 on: September 12, 2012, 12:30:08 PM »
Tick, I'd be interested to hear which solo tops can Vayne perhaps counter. Care to elaborate? Ashe can probably hold the lane against champions totally devoid of gap-closing abilities, but the problem with the jungler attacking her stays. Graves... why Graves? He can gut someone with Q from point blank but what else?

Ryven, the problem with Fiddle's ulti is that newer/not so skilled players are too scared from the crows to actually do things, not involving running around. In a teamfight most supports can deal with Fiddle's ulti. Alistair, Taric in Blitzcrank for sure, either with displacing or stunning, everyone that has exhaust too... The trick for fiddle is not to initiate the fight with his ulti, but to wait till some abilities have been thrown in. Then he might manage to use the full potential.

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #918 on: September 12, 2012, 06:05:05 PM »
On the contrary, Fiddles is not limited by the "interrupt".

He really is. His ult is nice and all, but if it's on cooldown, something like 80% of his damage output comes off of Drain, which is a very slow channeled spell. Interrupt that and suddenly Fiddles is doing no damage at all until its cooldown comes back up. His E (the silence) does fair damage but has a VERY long cooldown for a damage spell, Q doesn't do any damage at all, so the only consistent source of damage he has is Drain. Anyone who can interrupt him consistently has no fear of Fiddlesticks.

In other words, pick TF and yellow card anytime he starts to drain. Voila, Fiddles is now harmless.

As for his ult, yes, it has nice numbers on paper. However, your whole "this damage kills an AD carry" statement seems to disregard the fact that the carry in question probably just isn't standing there eating the damage and doing nothing in response (and apparently has no MR). Unless he's also feared that carry, they're probably shooting something, and by the time Fiddles has a level 3 ult a good carry probably has a fair amount of lifesteal. I have watched Vayne sustain herself through an entire Fiddles ult just by carrying on through the teamfight killing people and healing through it. Would that have happened if the team had focused her like they should have? No, of course not, but she wasn't instantly killed just by being in an ult that does enough total damage to have killed her, either.

Why not? Because that ult doesn't do all its damage up front.

It's like marveling at the massive damage Nunu's ult is capable of doing. Yeah, he can legitimately one-shot carries with it if he builds heavy AP...but how likely is he to actually pull that off, even with his massive slow on Q to try to keep someone in it? Not very, not unless no one sees him doing it and/or no one can interrupt him/flash away.

Fiddles is the same way. Unless you set things up perfectly for it (ie: jump into the middle of an ongoing teamfight when everyone's already engaged and has blown some of their best burst spells so they can't just insta-gib you the moment you appear in the middle of them), your ult is going to do a fair amount of damage, but it's unlikely to just kill people because they started out near him. This is especially true if you pop Zhonya's, since it only takes a second to run away from a stationary Fiddlesticks and be out of range of the storm. You have to chase people if you want to really maximize the ult's damage, and if you're chasing them, they can kill you (and since you can't drain while you're chasing, you can't really stop them from killing you, since you're very, very squishy).

Fiddles can be lethal. He's an absolute monster when it comes to disrupting teamfights and forcing people to scatter, enabling his team to pick off separated opponents or get to those VIP targets they might have otherwise had trouble reaching. He's pretty good at dueling anyone that can't constantly interrupt him once he hits that magic level of AP/Vamp that turns his Drain into an "I don't give a fuck" button and his CC in a teamfight is pretty boss.

What he lacks: durability, consistent dps/teamfight damage and, most importantly, mobility. Fiddles is almost as easy to avoid as Mordekaiser in terms of his ability to chase. Maybe even easier once Morde gets Rylai's, since Morde can just spam E to gradually catch up with someone and Fiddles doesn't have any ability that spammable (since Drain, his only low-cooldown source of damage, requires him to stop moving to cast it). Ahri got nerfed for having great damage, great control and great mobility even when she built semi-tanky due to the combination of her true damage mechanic, spell vamp passive and her triple-dash ult. If you build Fiddles even a little tanky outside of AP items (Abyssal, Rylai's, Zhonya's, etc.) his damage is sub-par and he has zero mobility beyond his long-cooldown ult's channeled Flash, which is too slow to be used for chasing and too easily interrupted (and on far too long a cooldown) to use for escape.

tl;dr - Fiddlesticks is much better at enabling his team to get kills than he is at executing people personally. I like to think of him as an offensive support more than an AP carry.

Offline Panduhmoanium

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #919 on: September 19, 2012, 05:39:16 PM »
Personally, I'm not a big fan of fiddle.

But, the one thing I did notice was the fact that his fear can be amazing at early levels if the carry doesn't have merc treads. I had a buddy of mine that plays on a local college's E-Sports team support me with fiddle, and around level 9 it gets deadly if your AD is paying attention and maybe your jungle is around. He's also great against an Ezreal who does nothing but spam spells and what not, blocking everything with his silence. As it has been said, once a fiddle drops his ult, silence, and fear, the only thing he has left for quite some time is his drain. You throw an ignite on him and/or stun him and it's all over but the crying.

Offline AidenTopic starter

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #920 on: September 19, 2012, 07:27:06 PM »
This channel may not be up later, but this is a Lol player with muscular dystrophy who is steaming. Playing with a gaming pen and using his cheek for the mouse...and he is kicking ass.

http://www.twitch.tv/aieron

Offline Panduhmoanium

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #921 on: September 19, 2012, 07:54:05 PM »
I can't describe how awesome that is.

Offline Life in Color

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #922 on: September 20, 2012, 08:21:29 AM »
Personally, I'm not a big fan of fiddle.

But, the one thing I did notice was the fact that his fear can be amazing at early levels if the carry doesn't have merc treads. I had a buddy of mine that plays on a local college's E-Sports team support me with fiddle, and around level 9 it gets deadly if your AD is paying attention and maybe your jungle is around. He's also great against an Ezreal who does nothing but spam spells and what not, blocking everything with his silence. As it has been said, once a fiddle drops his ult, silence, and fear, the only thing he has left for quite some time is his drain. You throw an ignite on him and/or stun him and it's all over but the crying.

Supportdlesticks makes me a sad panda when playing a support versus him.


Also - anyone else think Syndra plays a bit too much like Orianna?

Offline SneakyGuy

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #923 on: September 20, 2012, 11:09:43 AM »
Hardly great against Ez, since Ez usually gets QSS and can flash away from him.

Fiddle support has no sustain for the AD, which means that if you play on the offensive, you'll have less problem. Also, if you see Fiddle support, an unexpected but working move is to get Zyra support, Can't scare those flowers, heh heh.

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #924 on: September 20, 2012, 11:53:44 AM »
Also, if you see Fiddle support, an unexpected but working move is to get Zyra support, Can't scare those flowers, heh heh.

Zyra support feels so.... Weird. I could see it working, though.

I play old fashioned supports, though. So, all of these mids going support feel weird to me.