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Author Topic: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins  (Read 5764 times)

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Offline Beauty RapaxTopic starter

Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« on: May 19, 2011, 04:23:06 PM »
 I'd like you guys to weigh in on this:
  http://www.npr.org/2011/05/18/136402034/burgers-from-a-lab-the-world-of-in-vitro-meat?sc=fb&cc=fp

If you don't have time to listen to the podcast, though it's pretty awesome, the article underneath covers the basic premise.

"Artificial piece of meat twitching in a petri dish." Is one of my favorite quotes from the pod cast. And by favorite I mean balls creepy. And although I do find the entire process a little disconcerting it's most likely going to be not only viable but vital for our expanding appetites and population. While no animal will be harmed in the process the product will indeed be real edible tissue. How does this change our definition of what food is? What about vegetarians who swore off food with a face due to cruelty? Is there anyone here who would eat bacon if it didn't suffer?

Offline Scribbles

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 04:25:43 PM »
Is anyone else seeing a "meat monster" in the future?

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 04:33:09 PM »
I'm more worried about the actual 'healthiness' of it. Frankenfood worries a a real deal, it took nature MILLIONS of years to work our biochemistry into a system that works. What might we miss if we jump on this too soon? The idea of a 'vat meat' substitute that can help ease hunger and all that is good, but it needs to be researched and worked through first.

Offline Beauty RapaxTopic starter

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2011, 04:33:17 PM »
Is anyone else seeing a "meat monster" in the future?

Maybe the CDC's Zombie Preparedness Blog had better timing than we suspect? ^.^

Offline Beauty RapaxTopic starter

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2011, 04:34:50 PM »
I'm more worried about the actual 'healthiness' of it. Frankenfood worries a a real deal, it took nature MILLIONS of years to work our biochemistry into a system that works. What might we miss if we jump on this too soon? The idea of a 'vat meat' substitute that can help ease hunger and all that is good, but it needs to be researched and worked through first.

They seem to be skipping the middle man and just growing it the same way they grow artificial tissues for medical use. It's technically grown like it would in an animal, sans pain receptors and such. But yeah, I wonder if the meat will effect us differently if it's not grown in a boddy with hormones and such.

Offline Scribbles

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2011, 04:37:20 PM »
Callie, good question, who is to say it doesn't stop growing in some manner while inside us?

Maybe the CDC's Zombie Preparedness Blog had better timing than we suspect? ^.^

So true! And they scoffed when so many of us warned that meat-monsters would come before the Zombie Apocalypse.  :P

Offline Trieste

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Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2011, 04:42:16 PM »
I'm personally fine with eating the products of our agricultural advances, whether it be animal, vegetable or mineral. I personally find the idea of 'food with a face' vegetarianism a wee bit goofy, but as long as someone doesn't hiss at me for eating my grilled chicken, we're good.

It's honestly a mutual respect sort of "Don't call me a barbarous carnivore and I won't call you an oversensitive ninny" kind of thing.

However, the sustainability potential for this is pretty awesome. That, I can support wholeheartedly.

Offline Noelle

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2011, 04:43:58 PM »
I really like the implications this has on ethical vegetarians/vegans. Something tells me many of them would likely still protest on principle and there is always the issue of those who really don't like the taste/texture/what-have-you of animal flesh or won't due to health reasons and so forth, but I doubt this is going to be game-changing for the meat industry. The way I see it, they need to make sure that A) the two products are virtually identical in most/all tangible aspects (people already claim they can tell the difference between organic produce and commercial, though it hardly gets more organic than growing meat from natural animal cells) and B) they can streamline the method to produce lab-grown meat products in order to keep it competitive economically. There's no real benefits to be reaped by the world at large if it takes them $5,000 to grow enough to make a hamburger.

Still, this could have really great benefits in the future, especially when global food scarcity is always a lingering concern.

Quote
Callie, good question, who is to say it doesn't stop growing in some manner while inside us?

Probably that part where we effectively destroy cooked animal tissue with our teeth, break down the starches and fats with our saliva, and then send it to a certain death in one of the most potent and corrosive substances known to man in a pool of our own highly acidic stomach juices, amongst other things. Anything that can survive that much probably deserves to live inside me!

Online NotoriusBEN

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 04:47:39 PM »
my only thing with this is that it will probably taste incredibly bland.
meat by itself has little flavor. You need the fat and I dont know how you'd induce fat into the vat-meat to make it palatible.
I love meat... its delicious. To quote a comic, "One of the greatest miracles of nature is that a pig can turn an apple into bacon."


*****
And that's what I hate about a lot of vegetarians, Trieste. They feel the need to push their diet and choices on me.


Offline Scribbles

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 04:51:10 PM »
Probably that part where we effectively destroy cooked animal tissue with our teeth, break down the starches and fats with our saliva, and then send it to a certain death in one of the most potent and corrosive substances known to man in a pool of our own highly acidic stomach juices, amongst other things. Anything that can survive that much probably deserves to live inside me!

I love cheesy horror films!

Silliness aside, all that'd matter to me is the content and whether or not it tastes good. I'm not really a fan of meat in general though...

Offline Trieste

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Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 04:53:15 PM »
Without getting too far off-topic, it's what a lot of people strongly dislike about your run-of-the-mill vegetarian. If more vegetarians grasped that many meat-eaters don't want to be preached at any more than most atheists do, they would find themselves a little more respected and a little less lumped in with your average Jehovah's Witness.

Silliness aside, all that'd matter to me is the content and whether or not it tastes good. I'm not really a fan of meat in general though...

I eat very little of it. If I eat more than, say, an ounce or two of meat, I get super sleepy. It's like my body is going "MUST. DIGEST. AMINO ACIDS." to the exclusion of all else, including staying awake.

Offline Jefepato

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 04:55:54 PM »
I imagine this will become standard some day in the distant future, but I don't know if I could tolerate meat that never felt pain.  The flavor is the suffering.*

*This is a joke.  I am not actually a sadist.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2011, 04:58:14 PM »
*****
And that's what I hate about a lot of vegetarians, Trieste. They feel the need to push their diet and choices on me.

Well the thing is, unless you are really committed and know where to look it's HARD to do a good vegetarian diet. You have to replace a lot of proteins that are just simply easier to get from meat than vegies. I recall one vegan family having absolute FITS trying to get what they considered healthy for a child and staying pure vegan. It's damn near impossible but they were doing everything they could to do it. (they were my neighbors in Maine).

I think they went Octo-whatever Vegitarian. Some chicken/cheese/milk and such. The wife was a nice lady who drove me nuts cooking cookies all the time. :D Nice folks, not as preachy as some I met in Maine.

Offline Noelle

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2011, 05:00:24 PM »
Diet is practically the new religion. I was almost fully vegetarian for awhile pretty much just for health reasons and told my friends and family they could all eat three steaks for every one I passed up. I still don't eat a lot of meat in general, but can't seem to convey to people effectively that it's only beef that I don't eat.

FUNNY DIALOGUE:
(based on a true story)

"...So will you eat this pulled pork sandwich?"
"...Yes, it's beef that I don't eat."
"What about chicken?"
"...Yep, still eat it. It's just beef."
"Seafood?"
"Beef."
"...So do you still like mashed potatoes?"
"...What?!"
"I'm just asking!"

More on-topic, however, I'd take up eating beef again if just to try a lab-grown steak :D Curiosity would get the better of me, for sure.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2011, 05:06:55 PM »
I know one guy who tried it on the boat. (Carrier)

Poor guy nearly went NUTS trying to stick to it. You've not lived till you've suffered through some of the stuff the Navy inflicts on you (Anyone else here ever seen a box of meat with the stamp 'Rejected by the State of Nevada Department of Prisons' on it?) I listen to guys complain that the 'Navy has the best food' and laugh. Hard. Long.

And hope they are still thinking about back in the 40s..cause if the stuff I ate on cruise was the best there was in the Service I'm scared.

Of course to this day I won't eat fried chicken at just anywhere because of my first cruise.

So I don't give folks a lot of flack about their choices if they don't give me flack about mine. Now when you try to ban mine choices? That's another thing. :D

I'm still looking for MY version of a PETA sticker of course (People Eating Tasty Animals)

Offline Scribbles

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2011, 05:10:01 PM »
I eat very little of it. If I eat more than, say, an ounce or two of meat, I get super sleepy. It's like my body is going "MUST. DIGEST. AMINO ACIDS." to the exclusion of all else, including staying awake.

*Giggles* You have a very demanding body.  :P

I become more queasy than sleepy, even if I really enjoyed it.

Offline Jude

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2011, 05:11:52 PM »
Heard about this awhile back on the science blogs/podcasts I review, I'm surprised NPR is just now reporting on it.  The technology isn't anywhere near close to usable, and chances are that for the energy that goes into creating this meat it will always be more efficiency to simply raise the animal in most circumstances (one benefit however is that livestock is a big contributor to carbon emissions).

From what I heard the way this is most likely to be used is in space exploration in the future, since raising livestock on ships isn't... well, at all viable.

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Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 05:14:46 PM »
Well the thing is, unless you are really committed and know where to look it's HARD to do a good vegetarian diet. You have to replace a lot of proteins that are just simply easier to get from meat than vegies. I recall one vegan family having absolute FITS trying to get what they considered healthy for a child and staying pure vegan. It's damn near impossible but they were doing everything they could to do it. (they were my neighbors in Maine).

I think they went Octo-whatever Vegitarian. Some chicken/cheese/milk and such. The wife was a nice lady who drove me nuts cooking cookies all the time. :D Nice folks, not as preachy as some I met in Maine.

I think you mean ovolacto (meaning they ate eggs and dairy)  Chicken isn't usually included, though...  One of my sisters doesn't eat red meat, but that's for cholesterol and stuff.  Any white meat, she's fine with.

Offline consortium11

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2011, 05:52:46 PM »
Well the thing is, unless you are really committed and know where to look it's HARD to do a good vegetarian diet. You have to replace a lot of proteins that are just simply easier to get from meat than vegies. I recall one vegan family having absolute FITS trying to get what they considered healthy for a child and staying pure vegan. It's damn near impossible but they were doing everything they could to do it. (they were my neighbors in Maine).

I think they went Octo-whatever Vegitarian. Some chicken/cheese/milk and such. The wife was a nice lady who drove me nuts cooking cookies all the time. :D Nice folks, not as preachy as some I met in Maine.

The main issues with nutrition as a vegetarian (or more particularly a vegan) are the essential amino acids and vitamin B12. For a standard vegetarian it's not that difficult to get the amino's, dairy products can do that, but for a vegan you're essentially restricted to either lupin, soy, hempseed, chia seed, amaranth, buckwheat, and quinoa (which each provide a complete protein) or having to combine multiple different ingredients each of which contain incomplete protein... which adds to the effort and cost... and you have to consume a pretty large amount of any of the given items to get the same results as eating meat or dairy. Difficult but not impossible

Vitamin B12 is a bigger concern. B12 aids with the normal functioning of the brain and nervous system and the formation of blood with a deficiency in it having several very harmful side effects. It also only comes from animal products, so again if someone consumes dairy they should be ok but vegans really should use supplements to get their intake up.

Offline Noelle

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2011, 07:07:46 PM »
That's one reason I started eating more meat again...I went through a bout where my body just kind of felt 'off' (didn't/don't have health insurance, so I couldn't go to the doctor to get bloodwork done or anything) and I was concerned that I wasn't getting sufficient nutrition from my vegetarian diet. I'm too lazy to pay attention to taking supplements or adding quinoa or anything, so I kinda just said fuckit and started eating meat more routinely rather than as a once-a-month "oh yeah, you exist" kind of thing.

Offline Xajow

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2011, 02:06:34 AM »
Is there anyone here who would eat bacon if it didn't suffer?
If it smells and tastes like bacon, and essentially is bacon, then why wouldn't I eat it? What would be the objection?

Offline Malefique

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 07:13:50 AM »
I never had a problem with eating meat - I like the taste.  In fact I love it.  Threw a major angry when I found out some supermarkets were selling halal killed meat without labels here in the UK, partly because I object to having someone else's religious mumbo-jumbo foisted on me against my will (I'd have been equally angry if the culprits had been Christians reciting prayers over my sunday roast) but mainly because of the cruelty.  I live down the road from an abattoir and a lot of local people work there, not to mention almost all of us buy our meat from the shop attached to it.  We can see and hear what goes on without much effort, and my food doesn't suffer.  But I do get the shivers over this artifical protein business - just reminds me too much of a Sapphire and Steel story where time travellers from the future, a bunch of self-righteous veggies, turn out to have vat-grown composite lifeforms powering their time machine.  I am like everyone else, I don't care what people do or don't eat as long as they don't preach to me (okay, perhaps I draw the line at hunting people for me before the apocalypse or the plane crash); so I admit I have been giggling a bit, sick as that might be, over the recent e-coli outbreak in salads.  My veggie friend who told me meat was poisonous and you couldn't get food poisoning from vegetables, where are you now?  Sooo quiet. 

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Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2011, 10:44:03 AM »
Actually, Halal and kosher meats are both killed by a deep slash across the major neck vessels.  The brain stops receiving blood immediately, the animal is unconscious within seconds (lack of oxygen to the brain) and bleeds out rapidly.  As killing methods go, it's probably on the more humane side of things.

Offline Serephino

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2011, 04:06:45 PM »
I could practically be considered a carnivore.  I need animal based protein; get kinda sick if I go too long without it.  There's no way in hell I could be a vegetarian.  I don't really like veggie protein sources.  Though lately because of my health problems I've been trying to make my diet more balanced. 

I may not like the way most slaughter houses operate, but I'm not too sure about this lab-grown stuff.  I think there are some things science shouldn't mess with.  I guess if other people don't mind it, more power to them, but I'd rather stick to the way things should be.       

Offline Xajow

Re: Murder-less Meat- Lab Proteins
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2011, 09:37:25 PM »
That reminds me of an essay (I think) I read back years ago. Well, I say it reminds me of the essay, it reminds me of part of it. I don't remember the whole thing.

Anyway, in the essay the author talked about feeding guest sandwiches with armadillo meat, and then asking how they liked it. They all liked it fine until the author told them it was armadillo meat, at which point the guests would go vomit in the bathroom. Which I thought was funny, but I didn't understand it. But then, I grew up in south Louisiana where anything made of meat, except humans of course, was possible dinner food. I even once had mushrooms stuffed with gator meat at a wedding reception.

I guess I don't see the problem with artificially created meat. Can someone explain why it is somehow not the way things should be? I mean, that implies it is the way things should not be. I don't know why that would be the case.