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Author Topic: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him  (Read 9239 times)

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Offline Brandon

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2011, 07:54:27 AM »
He didn't wait. He released the short form certificate, which was all even he had access to, and is supposed to be legally sufficient for proof of birth. He had to make a special request to get the long form certificate released, against Hawai'i's normal state procedures.

I stand corrected then. When the issue came up during his campaign I heard many people shouting for the birth certificate. I never heard of a birth certificate of any kind showing up

To those who would say something like why not ask for so and so's birth certificate as well? I have this to say: If there is any doubt whether a person has the legal right to run for office then we should all be calling for it. I dont care if its Obama, Trump, Palin. They should all be held to the same standard, let them release their information that proves they have the legal right to run for office and move on to the next issue.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2011, 09:59:39 AM »
Unfortunately, the 'next issue' is even more ludicrous than the last one. Despite the fact that he released his birth certificate years ago, several individual states have continued to try to pass legislation requiring extensive documentation of citizenship and more (I think Louisiana wants you to prove your birth as well as your residency for 14 years; there's nothing in the Constitution about residency damnit). The legislation got so far in Arizona that the governor had to veto it. If you'll recall, Jan Brewer is not known for her temperance when it comes to legislation, considering the immigration legislation she's signed, supported, and defended. When even she says 'It's too much', you've got a problem.

And then he releases the full birth certificate and instead of taking a step back and gracefully issuing mea culpas, Trump and his lackeys are now demanding school grades.

Really? Really? There were several of us that wondered how a gem like Dubya was able to graduate from Harvard, but to my knowledge nobody demanded his grades. Why? Because they're fucking private. So, for that matter, was his birth certificate. Obama has had everything, everything brought into question: his experience as a senator, his citizenship, now his academics. Only the first of the three has anything to do with the Presidency, especially after he released the certificate of live birth. It's a witch hunt, and it's another sign of how absolutely ridiculous our government has gotten. We have a sky-high unemployment rate, and all they can think about is a fucking report card?!  >:( >:( >:( >:(

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2011, 10:13:01 AM »
Quote from: Belle33
This entire matter is idiotic.  Trump is a blow hard and a jackass.  Why we pay such attention to him is beyond my understanding

"Trumpie, come on, now I want you to blow!"  :D

I remember hearing about these claims a few weeks after Obama had won the election - from a U.S. exchange student - and I was thinking: "It's a joke, nobody can be that dumb!" But after finding the ObamaCrimes web site I realized some people really were pushing this so-called question. Gah...

Quote from: Trieste
Unfortunately, the 'next issue' is even more ludicrous than the last one. Despite the fact that he released his birth certificate years ago, several individual states have continued to try to pass legislation requiring extensive documentation of citizenship and more (I think Louisiana wants you to prove your birth as well as your residency for 14 years; there's nothing in the Constitution about residency damnit). The legislation got so far in Arizona that the governor had to veto it.

Down the line, you guys are going to need a nationwide, publicly issued ID card. Even if this goes against the grain of the American idea that "the state isn't to meddle with our personal lives" it's getting more and more inescapable it seems, to avoid more conflicts about which U.S. state or city recognizes what persons as legally themselves.

Offline Serephino

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2011, 10:26:43 AM »
The Founding Fathers got a pass on that because they were born in the Colonies. Anyone after that generation died, had to meet the requirement of being a natural born citizen.

Yes, but they're saying that Obama wasn't really born an American, therefore, is an evil terrorist plotting against us all.  I just wonder if those people know the first like 11 Presidents were born British.  Most of them were Founding Fathers, and were born before the US existed, but they weren't REAL Americans! Damned British bastards still trying to rule over us.... (I'm being a little sarcastic if you can't tell)  My point being if you use the very same arguments against past Presidents we know weren't born Americans, it sounds really stupid, doesn't it?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 11:56:40 AM »
Unfortunately, the 'next issue' is even more ludicrous than the last one. Despite the fact that he released his birth certificate years ago, several individual states have continued to try to pass legislation requiring extensive documentation of citizenship and more (I think Louisiana wants you to prove your birth as well as your residency for 14 years; there's nothing in the Constitution about residency damnit).

Um - actually:  Article 2, Clause 5.

The report card thing is completely uncalled for, though.  Education has never been a requirement.

It might be worth mentioning that one of the arguments being used against Obama was used against Chester A. Arthur:  The bit that his father owed allegiance to another power (British via the then-colony of Kenya in Obama's case, Ireland in Arthur's).  According to British Nationality Law, that may have made him technically a British citizen.  (It all looks very convoluted to me, especially with Kenya's colonial status back in 1961, and I still consider it a non-issue.)

Offline Zakharra

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2011, 02:53:05 PM »
(I'm being a little sarcastic if you can't tell)  My point being if you use the very same arguments against past Presidents we know weren't born Americans, it sounds really stupid, doesn't it?

 I understand the sarcasm. :)  However the past Presidents were born Americans, in that they were born in the Colonies.  If you applied the standard that only someone born after the founding of the US was eligible to be President back then, it would have been about 1810 before anyone was old enough to run for the office. The Founders get a 'slide' on that  since it was the founding of the country. Since then it's been adhered to quite well.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2011, 03:16:10 PM »
Just pointing out that John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was not a U.S. state at the time and never would be part of the United States proper - it was an overseas territory. The fact was pointed out during the campaign but it was never nearly as discussed as Obama's supposed African birth, and the Supreme Court (or one of its judges) indicated that the McCain matter, if he were elected, would most likely be seen as a nullitude.

I haven't heard of anyone questioning that Arnie was qualified to run for the office of Governor of California either, on the grounds of his being born in Austria - actually in the British-occupied zone of Austria, as the country didn't regain full independence again until 1955, when Arnold was seven. No one has suggested that this origin would make him suspect or disloyal in such a high office.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 03:17:56 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2011, 03:26:36 PM »
Governors can be naturalized (as opposed to natural born).  There have actually been several suggestions to amend the rules of Presidential eligibility to allow people like Arnold and Kissinger (born in Germany) to be president if they chose to run.  All have failed so far.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2011, 03:34:21 PM »
Governors can be naturalized (as opposed to natural born).  There have actually been several suggestions to amend the rules of Presidential eligibility to allow people like Arnold and Kissinger (born in Germany) to be president if they chose to run.  All have failed so far.

Yes, but my point was that the argument about Obama's supposedly hazy birth isn't merely legal: the thrust of it is a *moralizing* argument that he is no true American - and of course, really a Muslim. Even though the point about his "African birth" (which by now should have found itself solidly debunked) is put up front, I think Serephino (who made a similar contrast argument about the first generation of U.S. presidents) is right that the real hotspot under this is the view that Obama isn't a genuine American, because he's black, because he's alien, because he's seen as anti-WASP etc.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 03:35:25 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2011, 04:12:59 PM »
*nods*  I made a similar post on this as well.  http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=105107.msg4565077#msg4565077

The bit about McCain is a much better parallel, since McCain was an actual Presidential candidate.  To my knowledge, the closest Arnie's come to going after the presidency is having dinner with the in-laws.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2011, 05:07:22 PM »
*nods*  I made a similar post on this as well.  http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=105107.msg4565077#msg4565077

The bit about McCain is a much better parallel, since McCain was an actual Presidential candidate.  To my knowledge, the closest Arnie's come to going after the presidency is having dinner with the in-laws.

Arnie doesn't need the presidency anyways, he's got a superhero cartoon to work on. ;D

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2011, 05:30:55 PM »
I can't believe that Trump is calling for his grades. I don't hear him or his likes calling for Scott Walker's

I also believe that FDR flunked out of law school. Columbia if I am not mistaken.


Offline Revolverman

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2011, 05:32:56 PM »
I can't believe that Trump is calling for his grades. I don't hear him or his likes calling for Scott Walker's

I also believe that FDR flunked out of law school. Columbia if I am not mistaken.


How many times has Trump bankrupted something? I've never understood why people think hes some kinda financial or business god.

Offline Brandon

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2011, 04:05:58 AM »
Trump is the rich man icon of our day and has been a few times over the years. Thing is hes fallen into obscurity more then a few times and after the first time he made his mention that he might run for president and Im pretty sure hes said the same thing every year since

Personally I think his involvment in all of this is purely a public relations move to pull him back out of obscurity. I dont believe for a minute that hes actually going to run for president nor do I believe for a minute that he would make a good one

Also to touch on the point for calling Obama's grades. Well he can but Obama is under no legal obligation to provide that information as it has nothing to do with his legal authority to hold office (unlike his birth certificate). Were I Obama I would meet with these people, toss them a copy of the constitution and demand they show me where it says my grades in any school has anything to do with my ability to hold political office.

Offline Noelle

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2011, 07:17:37 AM »
It's not what these people actually believe that matters, really...It's what they make the voting public believe. A lot of conservatives are especially disdainful of what they perceive to the 'educated elitists', so it makes sense that they would go after his college grades even though it is essentially hypocritical of them to both elevate and dismiss a college education at once.

Honestly, the guy was a law professor. They're making his whole life out to be one giant conspiracy -- if his grades were released, they'd ask for his teaching evaluations. If those were released, they'd dig up some scandal about some promising kid he flunked, and so forth.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2011, 07:27:34 AM »
I'm looking forward to a Trump/Palin ticket in 2012, really who else could Obama beat?

Seriously we had a local man who questioned the document was typed and said they didn't do that in 1961, my grandfathers from the 30's was typed out as was one I saw from the late 19th century. It was the norm at hospitals.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 07:29:20 AM by RubySlippers »

Offline Will

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2011, 11:26:12 AM »
Well yeah, surely they would write the whole thing out longhand.  Doctors are known for their superior penmanship, after all.


Right?

Offline consortium11

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2011, 11:51:04 AM »
People are already calling the birth certificate a fake... apparently it's an obvious photo-shop with a dozen or so mistakes and inconsistencies. If nothing else it shows Obama's incompetence in leading the US; he's had so long to put together this blatant forgery and he can't even get that right...

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2011, 11:53:57 AM »
I wonder if any evidence will be enough to convince them?

I'm inclined to think not, since their minds appear already made up.

Offline Remiel

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2011, 02:35:53 PM »
There will always be nutjobs and conspiracy theorists (7% of Americans apparently believe Elvis Presley is still alive, and 26% of us still believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy.)

Even Republicans realize that this is a non-issue.

Quote
"Yesterday, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney called this issue a sideshow," said a spokesman or House Majority Leader Eric Cantor on Wednesday. "We fully agree. The White House shouldn't engage political sideshows, particularly at a time when the challenges facing our country are so immense. Despite the excitement caused by the media circus this morning, House Republicans remain squarely focused on the things that truly matter to families and business owners throughout our country."

"This has long been a settled issue," added a spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner, in a statement. "The Speaker's focus is on cutting spending, lowering gas prices, and creating American jobs."

Offline consortium11

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2011, 03:22:18 PM »
My favourite quote on this comes, somewhat surprisingly, from Rand Paul.

Quote
“I’ve come to New Hampshire today because I’m very concerned,” Paul said. “I want to see the original long-form certificate, with embossed seal, of Donald Trump’s Republican registration.”

“Seriously don’t you think we need to see that?” he said, adding that Trump had donated to Democrats such as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

Source here.

Offline Belle33

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2011, 09:09:25 PM »
My favourite quote on this comes, somewhat surprisingly, from Rand Paul.

Source here.

That is the funniest thing I've seen all week! 

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2011, 10:53:45 PM »
My favourite quote on this comes, somewhat surprisingly, from Rand Paul.

Source here.

LMAO!

Offline MasterMischief


Offline Shjade

Re: Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2011, 01:50:29 PM »
Poisoning the well followed by moving the goalposts?
Pretty much. Add to that whatever official debate term describes having half of a party make a big fuss to force attention on an issue while the other half of the same party waits for that attention to come, then points out that while the responder might have time to play around with this nonsense, they are sticking to the important issues.

Seriously, the bit Remiel quoted a few posts back looks less to me like Republicans saying, "This is getting ridiculous, everyone should settle down and focus on the important things," and more, "Look at the President wasting his time with nonsense when he should be thinking about important things like WE are!"

He can't win.

I despise politics on the whole and refuse to get involved with it because of bullshit like this, but I have to admit, if nothing else, the Republicans are fucking brilliant when it comes to this kind of smearing. They really know their audience.