Looking for GM (and group) for Fight! the Fighting Game RPG 2nd edition!

[wander]

I learned something new! I didn't know about that limitation in a simultaneous turn for defence choices...

Then there's Combo as a skill... I'd want to have a Lv.2 in that to learn more on it's mechanics, though also I feel it's just as valid not to worry and lean more to the defence trio and as I'm a fireball flinging fan (say that three times fast!), Ki is something I'd take also.

So I'd likely have a spread (without considering removal of Qualities atm) of Combo 2, Ki 1 and Defense 2 (maybe Defense 1 / Tactics 1). I likely would reduce Qualities though, just to make it easier on me! 

[Thufir Hawat]

Reducing qualities, if allowed, gives you more points. But the Referee should really control that...you simply don't want different choices made amongst the group, unless you are looking for a particular type of campaign, with a main protagonist or a duo of such.
Also, Defense, Evade and Tactics do almost nothing on 1 point.

[wander]

*nods* Without the Fighting Spirit spend yeah, the defence skills are pretty worthless at Lv.1, given equalling the Defence's DC counts as a hit (oh, I rolled a 1 on my d6 to equal or beat... Oh, 1... I hit!).

So, the one thing I still don't quite grok is Special Moves, what are your methods for putting them together, Thufir?

I know the theory of it's their Level in Elements +1 (so an L3 Move has 4pts of elements in it) and that the Level represents the meta of button presses for a Move (a quarter sweep and press of a punch button for a Hadoken equals 3 prompts for an L3 move - like the Fireball L3 move on p.371).

It's being spoiled for choice with elements to customise the moves really, it's more in-depth than the Powers of Mutants & Masterminds! What are good moves to make and elements to look for and/or trap options?

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Hoping I can get all this once I sit down with it.

[Thufir Hawat]

*nods* Without the Fighting Spirit spend yeah, the defence skills are pretty worthless at Lv.1, given equalling the Defence's DC counts as a hit (oh, I rolled a 1 on my d6 to equal or beat... Oh, 1... I hit!).

Yeah, but the opponent can also buy up his attack. In which case, if you're of the same level, your defense is still as good as an unmodified 1.
So, avoid anything below 2. In fact, a 3 is preferred, trust me.

So, the one thing I still don't quite grok is Special Moves, what are your methods for putting them together, Thufir?

I don't know if it would be much help, because the method is "I take an actual strategy I've seen in a game, movie, whatever, and make the Moves to make it work".
Let's stick to fighting games: go read up an article where someone breaks up how to play with character X from game Y. Then make some moves that mimic this strategy.
The more in-depth the article, the better.

Like, I'm not going to find you an article on Ayane, but I think we can all agree that she's a whiff-inducing, whiff-punishing, defensive character which uses signature moves like turning all the time, followed up by back attacks, which can very well launch you and juggle you.

Now guess what... you can make someone like this! In fact, it would be a very strong character, too. Focus on her Evasion, use it for "free" breaking up the distance. Give her Mobility, and attacks that close the range back. Then add a launcher move. She's definitely a tough and agile character, so you'd have plenty of Initiative, allowing you to break the range a lot. And a lot of her moves end up with her back turned, which is an actual Drawback for Moves, so you can take it and stick it to some of her moves in return for a "free" Improved Stun, for example...

...and if you disagree with how I'd build her, no problem! That's the beauty of Fight! 2e: we could all build Ayane to match our exact playstyle, and that would be five different characters, all (more or less) equally valid!

What are good moves to make and elements to look for and/or trap options?

There's no trap options! The author says so, and I agree. All the elements are good. You can almost pick random moves and you'd still have a viable character.
OK, some moves would combine better, but as long as you make thematic choices, you should be all right!
Of course, you could make a garbage character, but that would almost take effort. Like, if you make a character with a Control penalty and two Level 5 moves, both of which have an Accuracy penalty? Yeah, sure, that's bad. But again, it takes time and effort to come up with something that stupid. (You need to roll 5 on a d4 to even attempt those moves...yeah, unless you use Fighting Spirit on it, it ain't happening at all, and then they might miss. The real question should be, why do you hate this character ?(
And still, there's good odds those moves would be very high-damage ones, so even that isn't a completely hopeless character. At the very least, he'd probably be destroying mooks easily! And you can "patch" him if you get to the next level.

Hoping I can get all this once I sit down with it.

Good luck !

[Thufir Hawat]

OK, here's an example for you...of the mechanics an E.-appropriate Fighter.

Yamini is a girl with lithe body, quick steps, dirty mind and a style to match all of the above. (Go find a suitable picture yourself ).

Let Me Strip You:
L2: Take Down, No Damage, Harry, Increased GloryX3, Vulnerability
With a quick series of grabs, she touches the opponent in indecent ways, manipulating him or her into losing balance and tumbling on the floor. The opponent is flushed from the intense physical contact and might have lost parts of clothing - but is unharmed otherwise. However, she has opened her own defenses in order to do that!

L4: Cum 2 Me!
Entangle, Ranged, Draw Closer, Increased Glory, Vulnerability
Her belt and her whole jacket fly to her opponent and draws the opponent closer, crushing and restraining him or her in the way. However, she is meanwhile vulnerable, as she doesn't even have clothing on the top of her body!

L3: Fanservice Kicks!
MultihitsX3, Increased Glory
Yamina performs a series of kicks aimed at the head or chest of her opponent. While doing so she flashes everyone with her panties.

...And I leave you to guess what her Taunt is like !


So, you can say I built her around a theme.

[wander]

Heh, nice. 

I am slowly getting to grips with things, though the Elements chapter needs another edit run something fierce... Where's Take Down - I can't find it?

That's a lot of Increased Glory there, is it that important to collect up? There's a whole list of triggers to get it in the rules already.

I think in first playing I'd make a fighter based from something famous to copy their Moves using the templates, like Street Fighter, though recently I've been looking at Guilty Gear Strive and having a fondness for that. Guilty Gear XX was on the PS2 in my Uni days.

[Thufir Hawat]

It's Knockdown in the rules. I just use what word comes naturally, since it's not a Throw (meant to only be used at range 0).

As for Glory, is advancement important? Yes, especially from r her. She is meant to be an NPC, and this way she can lose her fights and still level up with them !

[wander]

Here's one...

In a 1 v 1 fight, how would defensive responses be important?

I understand that if the defender gets to do one then the initial attacker has a defense penalty of sorts against it, however the defender doing the response is still beholden to spend from his turn's Control and afaik the response counts as his action for the turn too.

In a 1 v 1, if the first fighter missed their attack and the other fighter doesn't have a defense response, the second fighter's turn will still follow and they can still attack.

Feels like defensive responses are more important for Streets of Rage style multiplayer group bouts.

[Thufir Hawat]

First, hitting more often is useful!
Too, the rules explicitly say that it only counts as your action for the round if you don't have higher Initiative, and that if you do, you can use the DR for an utility bonus or to attack twice.

Does that mean DR is necessary? Of course not - it does come with opportunity cost. Like, every element you use for it is not Improved damage, Aerial, things like that !
But it does come handy at times .

[wander]

I meant to ask Thufir, you mentioned in a prior post to check articles on fighters to help plot special moves.

What are good places that have such articles on characters?

[Thufir Hawat]

I meant to ask Thufir, you mentioned in a prior post to check articles on fighters to help plot special moves.

What are good places that have such articles on characters?

I've found the most in freestepdodge.com and ign.com - though bloodyelbow.com deserves a honourable mention !

[wander]

I've found the most in freestepdodge.com and ign.com - though bloodyelbow.com deserves a honourable mention !

IGN? You madlad! They tend to do minimal research for reviews and articles... ^^;;

Never touched much of DoA outside a few rentals with the earlier titles circa very early 2000s (the og trilogy; 1-3).

How would you define the fighting game archetypes and such for Fight! and move elements/liabilities they should have?
> Grapplers
> Rushdowns
> All-Rounder (usually a Shoto)
> Footsies (essentially those who do pokes/footsies and can evade/cancel projectiles though lack mixups).
> Ranged

I saw also talk of 'wake-up options' when coming out of Dizzy on the Shoryuken Wiki, what sort of moves are representative for characters good/bad at that?

[Thufir Hawat]

IGN? You madlad! They tend to do minimal research for reviews and articles... ^^;;

I've obviously only found the better ones. It might help that I actually search for articles with Google, for the character and not for specific sites...

How would you define the fighting game archetypes and such for Fight! and move elements/liabilities they should have?

I wouldn't, use whatever categories you like - the game can emulate them .
Categorization is a hobby for people with more free time... !

> Grapplers

An assortment of Throw and Take Down options, as well as moves with Continuous Damage (or WETF the element was called).

> Rushdowns

Improved Damage, and lots of it, preferably on all moves! Everything else depends on taste.

> All-Rounder (usually a Shoto)

A mix of them, almost by definition...

> Footsies (essentially those who do pokes/footsies and can evade/cancel projectiles though lack mixups).

A variety of attacks with Reach, and preferably Hits Low.

> Ranged

Ki & Ranged, duh! Everything else depends on concept.

I saw also talk of 'wake-up options' when coming out of Dizzy on the Shoryuken Wiki, what sort of moves are representative for characters good/bad at that?

That depends on whether the GM allows the options which hit characters that are on the ground, ne? Sweeps with Take Down and Hits Low elements seem like obvious choices here, though. Also, Priority moves might be useful, as well as the Mobility Quality.

[wander]

Just me again Thufir. 

I was wondering if there's a system for punishment in Fight!, at all?

As an example, the Grappler Jump: bating someone with a jump that will likely have an attack so the enemy attempts an Anti-air, except your move was a feint and you don't do the attack prompt so the Anti-air will whiff and you can then slap that person in recovery with the actual attack?

Feints that are done to punish people that attempt a Defensive Response to the feint essentially...

[Thufir Hawat]

Just me again Thufir. 

I was wondering if there's a system for punishment in Fight!, at all?

As an example, the Grappler Jump: bating someone with a jump that will likely have an attack so the enemy attempts an Anti-air, except your move was a feint and you don't do the attack prompt so the Anti-air will whiff and you can then slap that person in recovery with the actual attack?

Feints that are done to punish people that attempt a Defensive Response to the feint essentially...

You can make it work like this, yes. It's not a major part of the system by default.
To me, that's basically what you do when you use the Tactics skill.
However, if you want to get it on the attack, you can use a move with the Cancel Throw element, which is literally that. Check page 132 of the book.

[wander]

Was watching the Guilty Gear: Strive official character starting guides last night, found their explanations of special moves to be super useful in considering what Elements to put into specific types of things.

One thing again I wanted to ask Thufir (thank you also for helping with all these suggestions), was what Liability would you pick for 'Air Only' Moves? As in they only work when you're in mid-air?
I know that a Jump is essentially when you've moved your fighter 2 Ranges, so would something like 'Limited Mobile (-1)' or 'Limited Movement (-1/2)'... I'm leaning on the former as that one states the special move only works if you move 2 Ranges. Or is it just giving them the 'Aerial' Element and job done?

My main girl Millia Rage from Guilty Gear Strive has around half of her L3 special moves with 'Air Only' to do them (I'd likely give her Lust Shaker as her L4 special move, with the 'Power Up' Element to represent extra Slash presses (as Power Up lets you spend extra Control to do +damage on a 1:1 basis).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD3DNjAo7Yw

[Thufir Hawat]

Sorry if that disappoints you, but I suspect that's simply the Aerial element. As in, if you're doing a move with that Element, it is aerial-only. If you want a move that's the same but on the ground, get a variant Special Move!
Makes sense: under what circumstances in a F:tFG RPG battle would a Fighter be unable to jump? If "basically never"...how is it a Liability?

Too, it is called out in the rulebook that yes, that's something you do if you want similar moves with more tactical breadth - even if the characters think of them as "the same move". Besides, this is true to genre: when you have variant moves, they are listed separately...both in move lists and in Japanese martial arts curricula.
(I am one of those that think about them as "same move", TBH. But they make you perform them separately during examination).

Either way, I try to take that as a perk, not a flaw. As an example, I can very well create a boxer character with only Jabs and Straights as special moves, or a boxer who uses different variants of the boxing moves.
Granted, I might need to consult some boxing books about different jabs, but it's doable. I can only remember 5 types of jabs off the top of my head, though (not something I do a lot of )!
Not many systems can do that.

[wander]

No, not disappointed, it makes sense. 

I got a grasp now of general basics on what the rules are, how staples get represented (I noticed +Accuracy stuff is generally how guard crushes get represented), just need to play some actual full matches to see what mix of special moves I'd like most. 

I found 'Theory Fighter' on youtube is a really good channel for talking and explaining mechanics of the vidjas, a few other channels recently did as a youtube challenge playlists explaining fighting archetypes too.

I think the only thing that Fight! really doesn't have much a system in place for is Pokes really. They're not command normals, though some can be.

Poke - Normals that can be, assuming you are at the correct range, be tossed out without much worry of retaliation. Used either to open combos, hit-confirm certain attacks (see below), start blockstrings, or engage in footsies (see below). Related to the "raw X" term (also below). Performing unsafe moves (IE poor frame data or being unsafe on block) raw as pokes isn't recommended.

[Thufir Hawat]

Doesn’t have a system in place? Seen the Invulnerability element?

[wander]

Yeah, though that's essentially to represent invuln on start-up special moves though, right?

Invulnerability Element special moves aren't Normals. :)

[Thufir Hawat]

Oh, you want to attack with a Standard Move? Then it's called "defense bonus and Fighting spirit to defense" !

[Thufir Hawat]

OK, I think I can now safely bump that without being obnoxious !

[Thufir Hawat]

Another bump, because why not?