WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[Revelation]

Zeraphim have been nerfed recently points wise. Seraphim are great in Ebon Chalice with hand flamers especially if you use the Ebon Chalice strat... deep strike them in and nuke whatever you land them near. As for the Dominions.... best make it a five man squad... 4 with Storm Bolters and the sergeant with a combi plasma. Their unit strat is a great way to delete stuff as well when they come out of a rhino.

Repentia are useful outside of Blood Rose, but Celestian Sacresents are strictly better given that they have other uses. Yet still give you the melee punch you need. Oh and if you want to have fun... Celestine has always been my favorite character. Vhal gives you more value... Celestine won't die and her girls with her keep producing miracle dice as they get snipped off and brought back.

I just meant the dominions squad would be a 4 woman squad, heh. 4 running with storm bolters, the last running with probably a combi plasma or maybe a condemner boltgun. Blessed Bolts sounds like a very strong stratagem if you can get them in range to unleash their full potential.

Are mortifiers worth it? A squad of 3 running around with heavy bolters and flails sounds like it would be very strong anti infantry. I'll have the paragon warsuits to tote around multi meltas on vehvicles as well as a ret squad with 4 multi meltas, but I do ponder as to how I handle infantry hordes as sisters.

[Andol]

Mortifiers are very very worth it... don't go with Penitent Engines... Mortifiers are better in every way. I have seen them rip through infantry and dreads. I run them with two buzz blades. Combine that with the sheer number of attacks they do and the heavy bolters... trust me you will cut down infantry just fine. Oh and I normally run them in squads of 4 if I can help it.

[Revelation]

Yeah. Penitents seem cool, but mortifiers actually seem to get work done. I'm actually a bit sad with Paragon warsuits, it feels as if they should be slightly cheaper I guess. Or maybe I'm underestimating them.

[Andol]

They are cheaper than what is simply listed in the book which is a good thing. One of the rule updates dropped them down quite a bit in points, but I agree that they are a bit expensive...

[Revelation]

Yeah, I'm looking at their revised costs (I think), and they just feel pricy still. But then again, maybe they totally kick ass in combat and I just haven't seen them in play yet.

[Andol]

They are really good if you play them right especially as an escort for Vhal... though you usually only want to run one unit in a 2000 point game or so. The best thing to equip them with is the swords by far... along with the multi-melta and they even carry those storm bolters (Not the good ones, but still it is a lot of extra shots)

[Revelation]

Right now I'm aiming at a 1k points build and they're in it. Though at 240 pts total they're a pretty penny at 1k points so it's my hope they can do some work at that level. If not, I might need to rethink what I'll spend those pts on.

[Andol]

They are actually at 210... the price you see in the book is out of date. https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/adepta-sororitas/Paragon-Warsuits

[Revelation]

They are actually at 210... the price you see in the book is out of date. https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/adepta-sororitas/Paragon-Warsuits

Ah, should clarify. 240 with the multi melta upgrades.

[Andol]

Fair... well they are a unit that does better in higher point games. Your Retributors... Immolator... and even regular sister squads provide all the Melta you need in lower point games.

[Revelation]

For reg sisters I am probably gonna be using their special weapon slot on storm bolters. I figure if something's in 12 inches of my sisters, my sisters are dead. If something is in 6 inches of my sisters, my sisters are really dead.

Immolator seems a very useful transport for Rets, but I was probably gonna start with a Rhino since they can tote around an MSU dominion and Ret squad at the same time.

[Andol]

The regular Sisters can carry Multi-Melta... that is a 24 inch shot... you will be picking off tanks easy with proper miracle dice use. Oh and when you kill them you get another miracle dice. The Immolator is great for carrying around Dominions.... since if you have a good battlefield... you can sneak that bad boy up a few inches pre game. It only carries 6 models, but that is all you need since the Dominion squad is at minimum five... and max 6 if you want the banner for extra miracle dice use.

Rhinos are always good to be honest... since your just starting out at the game... I would recommend just getting one because before you know it you will have a ton. Good all around transport. 

[Revelation]

They can equip multi meltas, but for the most part I feel my battle sisters are gonna the things I sit on objectives. That, and battle sister boxes irritatingly don't come with multi melta bits. Retributor boxes only come with 2, so even then I'm gonna be doing some sloppy kitbashes of heavy flamers into multi meltas, hah.

And yeah, Rhino is on the 'Must get at least one of' list. Hard to go wrong with the classic metal box. Immolator seems neat, so I might think about that in the future.

[Andol]

I usually try to get a Multi-Melta... and then either a second Melta and the sqaud sargent with a combi flamer. So if you get a chance you can use Holy Trinity... yes it is a close 12 inch range, but nuking anything you want with a sweet sweet one up on the wound roll while camping an object is nice. Especially if you trans-human the kill blob with Defenders of the Faith.

[greenknight]

For modeling purposes, save some scratch and magnetize all your immolator-specific bits, so one metahl baux can be fielded as either a rhino or an immolator.

[Revelation]

Magnetizing is definitely a skill I'll need to learn.

[greenknight]

Drill holes, glue in magnets. The skill is in placing the magnets where they are unobtrusive when not in use (aka, rhino-mode) and making sure the holes for the magnets line up.

Warning: once you figure out magnets, you'll magnetize everything. Tank gun mantlets and sponsons. Your sergeants' guns...and melee arm. Combi-weapons. EVERYTHING!

[TheLaughingOne]

hey..
SO, might be getting into a new 40k group..
And, well, most of my space marine stuff got mashed in moving, and disappeared in someone breaking into garage.
And.. well, in the possibility of rebuilding and restarting, ive been looking at the Vo- i mean Squats.
Anybody know the general way they play and such..?

[Andol]

For modeling purposes, save some scratch and magnetize all your immolator-specific bits, so one metahl baux can be fielded as either a rhino or an immolator.

I agree with this completely. The only difference is that an Immolator is on a Predator Chassis so it is bigger than a Rhino. That being said... no one cares if you proxy. I do this all the time with my two Rhinos. Playing them as Exorsist and Immolators respectively which have now just gone down another 10 points... YAY...

[Ollumhammersong]

hey..
SO, might be getting into a new 40k group..
And, well, most of my space marine stuff got mashed in moving, and disappeared in someone breaking into garage.
And.. well, in the possibility of rebuilding and restarting, ive been looking at the Vo- i mean Squats.
Anybody know the general way they play and such..?

Leagues are cool but the problem is, in their current state even bringing them to the table you risk becoming 'that guy' they're basically good at everything they try. They've been hit with a second round of point nerfs in the new chapter approved, and as a faction they've only been out for a few months so that should tell you alot.

Basically they prefer range, as their bolters, missiles and railguns beat out anything the space marines or even tau have on offer and they always double tap no matter the range. They have surprisingly great mobility too. They may only be able to advance 3" on their infantry but that is a consistent 3" and they aren't slowed by difficult terrain, which is huge in 9th with how prevalent terrain is. Most of their vehicles auto advance 6" too so there is that. Low mobility was supposed to be their achilles heel but it ended up being a straight up buff. Dwarves are ironically faster than nearly every other faction aside from nids and eldar.

Their currently the only faction with armour of contempt as it was stripped away from everyone else. So they're durable as hell and every unit in their army gets that buff, even the unarmoured beserkers with a 6+ save for some reason. Melee wise they can really swing hard if they want to with the afformentioned berserkers and their termie equivalent. So you can really build out melee lists if you want, in fact I think it was a melee dwarf list that took a tournament or two in november.

Even with their toned down judgement token mechanic they are stupidly accurate too. Volume of fire weapons really do benefit them as with 3 judgement tokens on an enemy (which isn't hard to get) any hit of 4+ auto wounds regardless of the weapon's strength or the opponent's toughness, so just pump out the shots and you'll bury your opponent in saves. It's a pretty dumb mechanic, undeniably effective but don't be surprised if your opponent makes a face while your doing it. Mass bolter fire auto-wounding imperial knights on hit rolls of 4+ is really fucking over knight players or people that like to bring big models in general as against Votann they are much, much less durable

Even the drukhari with their poison still need to roll to wound.

[TheLaughingOne]

... wow. Ok. Heh, maybe just get some models  and slow build and paint an army in hopes they get made into something that wont get me lynched from the table..

[Revelation]

I'd go with what you like.

Anecdotal evidence but I watched two votann players lose week when I checked out the local gaming store. One got bodied by a gene stealer cult army, and the other by marines.

I can't say as to how strong Votann are, but they were neat enough to make me almost pick them up. I didn't in the end, but they still have fun models in a sorta NASA space armor way.

[TheLaughingOne]

I will totally admit, looks are a big one of why im considering...

I wanna paint up squad leaders and all like my friends dwarves in Deep Rock Galactic.
Bit of a tradition in old group to make some of your leaders look like friends characters.
One dudes Leman Russ special commander was made to look like my dude from our only war game, peeking out the pintle waving his chainsword about.

[Ollumhammersong]

The nerfs helped balance Votann out alot. And if you have cool opponents who aren't meta-building their lists then fighting them can be fun. Plus they do have an undeniably cool aesthetic. Local metas obviously vary alot, overall meta wise they were doing pretty well for themselves before

The best way to fight Votann is to swarm them with bodies, most LoV players seem to be building their armies as gunlines over melee despite that being the the most effective list build to date. So melee armies like cults and Blood angels are doing pretty well against the average Votann player

and having units with invul saves helps too counter their high AP.

i'm not saying people will reach across the table and bitch slap you, it's just there were a lot of bad feelings when they first launched and some of that still lingers. And their judgement token mechanic is still ridiculously powerful if properly exploited. It's like marker lights, only permanent and waaaaaaay better. Many Tau players were pretty pissed that another faction got a straight up better version of their signature mechanic.

[Revelation]

Generally put, models last far longer than stats do. If you like the look of an army, or the themes of it, go for it. I eventually went with sisters since I like their models a lot and the whole spiritual warrior/religious aspect of them is fun. Apparently they're in the dogshed now over losing armor of contempt, but in the next edition or balance change, who knows?