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Author Topic: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership  (Read 4393 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« on: March 05, 2011, 09:16:04 PM »
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/aljazeera.net

Type in foxnews.com to see the trendline.

In the US market, Al Jazeera is still a ways behind, but we'll see how long that lasts, especially as Fox seems to be losing popularity lately.

This video of Hillary Clinton about it is telling:
Hillary Clinton: "Viewership Of Al Jazeera Is Going Up In The United States Because It's Real News"

Quote
"Al Jazeera has been the leader in literally changing people's minds and attitudes. And like it or hate it, it is really effective.

In fact viewership of al Jazeera is going up in the United States because it's real news. You may not agree with it, but you feel like you're getting real news around the clock instead of a million commercials and, you know, arguments between talking heads and the kind of stuff that we do on our news which, you know, is not particularly informative to us, let alone foreigners."

So, will we get journalistic standards in the United States again?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 09:21:18 PM »
Maybe we need to return to the Fairness Doctrine with the news media. Reagan removed it from play back in the 80s and quite frankly the quality of news 'reporting' has gone to shit since.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2011, 02:03:31 PM »
 I wouldn't support a return to the fairness doctrine. It can be used to silence people.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 02:14:01 PM »
I wouldn't support a return to the fairness doctrine. It can be used to silence people.

True, but it can also require both sides to use ACTUAL facts in their reporting. How much hate, discontent and divisiveness from BOTH sides have been the fault of OPINIONS being reported as fact.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2011, 02:29:52 PM »
True, but it can also require both sides to use ACTUAL facts in their reporting. How much hate, discontent and divisiveness from BOTH sides have been the fault of OPINIONS being reported as fact.

 If it was used to  make them show facts and not force a station/show to show the other side to 'balance'  it, then I might offer tentative support. I can see it being used more to silence the opposition than actually requiring facts to be shown. Especially on the radio.

Offline Will

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2011, 02:30:59 PM »
I wouldn't support a return to the fairness doctrine. It can be used to silence people.

I would consider that the lesser of two evils.  What good is having your voice heard if it's drowned in tons of bullshit?

Offline Zakharra

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2011, 02:42:47 PM »
I would consider that the lesser of two evils.  What good is having your voice heard if it's drowned in tons of bullshit?

 Better to be buried under bullshit than silenced because you are the only voice. At least people have a chance to hear you if you can still broadcast. The Nazis* and Soviets did very well with silencing the opposition.  That's a slope I do not want to walk on and it infringes very much into the Freedom of Speech right of the Constitution.

 * I did not  mean to invoke Godwin's Law, but the Nazis and Soviets did have a clear case of removing any vocal opposition. Wether  permanently or just by removing their ability to speak.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2011, 02:50:02 PM »
If it was used to  make them show facts and not force a station/show to show the other side to 'balance'  it, then I might offer tentative support. I can see it being used more to silence the opposition than actually requiring facts to be shown. Especially on the radio.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be a real hit in the nads to the REALLY outspoken idiots on the radio, the more balanced shows wouldn't have many problems. More 'facts' and less 'because I said it was fact' can't hurt things in my opinion.

And you have to admit the actually veracity of American broadcast journalism went to shit with the disestablishment of the Fairness Doctrine in the 80s. That was when it really took off as a 'ratings' extravaganza.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2011, 03:07:17 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be a real hit in the nads to the REALLY outspoken idiots on the radio, the more balanced shows wouldn't have many problems. More 'facts' and less 'because I said it was fact' can't hurt things in my opinion.

And you have to admit the actually veracity of American broadcast journalism went to shit with the disestablishment of the Fairness Doctrine in the 80s. That was when it really took off as a 'ratings' extravaganza.

 Uum.. that's a rather disturbing statement Callie. Just because you do not like what someone is saying, doesn't mean you have any right to shut them up. Wether or not you like what they say, on the TV, cable/satellite, newsprint or internet, they have the right to say it (in this country at least).

 Many radio shows also do political commentary so forcing them off the air through the Fairness doctrine would seve to silence poltical speech and in this case, greatly help the Democrat party, since the radio is mostly dominated by the right leaning talk shows. Like it or not, they have a legitimate right to say what they will.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2011, 03:27:45 PM »
We had no right to shut up Radio Rwanda when it was spewing its hate speech, then?

A lot of speech that needs to be blocked ought to fall under slander and libel. We're far too liberal with allowing outright accusations in this country, and it's one of the reasons why Fox has no presence in Canada, for example.

And this includes the slandering of groups of people.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2011, 03:31:24 PM »
Uum.. that's a rather disturbing statement Callie. Just because you do not like what someone is saying, doesn't mean you have any right to shut them up. Wether or not you like what they say, on the TV, cable/satellite, newsprint or internet, they have the right to say it (in this country at least).

 Many radio shows also do political commentary so forcing them off the air through the Fairness doctrine would seve to silence poltical speech and in this case, greatly help the Democrat party, since the radio is mostly dominated by the right leaning talk shows. Like it or not, they have a legitimate right to say what they will.

I have no problem with folks expressing OPINIONS. I have a problem with people doing so and sayign they are CONCRETE FACTS.

Too many 'journalists' use the lack of anything remotely related to accountability as an excuse to say anything and everything that comes through their skull. How many times have ..well to use the best example that comes to mind.. Glenn Beck come onto TV and/or Radio with FACTS that were nothing remotely related to factual content?

There was a LOT of editorials back when the fairness doctrine was in place. The OPINIONS of the media were aired, and did a lot to shape events.

Fairness doesn't mean 'kill all opinion'.

Offline Sure

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2011, 03:33:25 PM »
as much as I like Al-Jazeera, I don't think they're going to show up and suddenly make everything in America a civil debate again. (And lo, Al-Jazeera said 'Let there be politeness'. And the Democrats and Republicans turned politics into a civil debate over a cup of tea. And it was good.)

On a sidenote, I'm surprised AIPAC isn't trying to do something about this.

Offline Revolverman

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2011, 05:10:26 PM »
On a sidenote, I'm surprised AIPAC isn't trying to do something about this.

Their isn't much they can do, short of trying to get it banned for hate speech (that would never pass)

Offline Oniya

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Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2011, 05:51:57 PM »
Not to mention, if it's Internet viewership, people aren't necessarily going through a US-controlled source to get to it. 

Offline Zakharra

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2011, 06:16:30 PM »
I have no problem with folks expressing OPINIONS. I have a problem with people doing so and sayign they are CONCRETE FACTS.

Too many 'journalists' use the lack of anything remotely related to accountability as an excuse to say anything and everything that comes through their skull. How many times have ..well to use the best example that comes to mind.. Glenn Beck come onto TV and/or Radio with FACTS that were nothing remotely related to factual content?

There was a LOT of editorials back when the fairness doctrine was in place. The OPINIONS of the media were aired, and did a lot to shape events.

Fairness doesn't mean 'kill all opinion'.


 That's part of the problem.  Determining fact from opinion. In political discourse, fact is often sapped, mugged, tied up, drug off somewhere and warped outy of shape by both sides. The mass media are masters at obfuscating issues with emotion so the facts get lost in the shuffle.

 Using the Fairness doctrine, it would be easier to just shut down those who you (and who would be the arbitrators of what's fact and what is opinion? The line can get blurry at times) dislike and shut them up than make them change their ways.  I think both sides (Republican and Democrat) would be stupid or vindictive use the FD as a hammer to cut out opposition voices.  Don't like what they say? Yank their licence to broadcast or hit them with enough fines it's too expensive to remain operating.

 The freedom of speech has to cover both sides of the issue. Or it's completely worthless. Even what's on and in, especially IN, the media. Alot of what you hear on the radio is political.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2011, 07:15:06 PM »
I thought that the Fairness Doctrine required the addition of the contrasting point of view - i.e., if you have an article on how awful the Dems are being for walking out of the Wisconsin Senate, you had to have an article on how awful the Repubs were being for trying to sneak the vote through without a quorum.

Offline BraveEarth

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2011, 08:13:30 PM »
I believe that you had to present both sides of the Arguement however not to say that each side is to be represented fairly or to its full complexity.

Offline Zeitgeist

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2011, 09:54:13 PM »
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/aljazeera.net

Type in foxnews.com to see the trendline.

In the US market, Al Jazeera is still a ways behind, but we'll see how long that lasts, especially as Fox seems to be losing popularity lately.

So, will we get journalistic standards in the United States again?

Hardly surprising considering all the big news these days is focused on popular uprising in the Middle East and North Africa.

Maybe we need to return to the Fairness Doctrine with the news media. Reagan removed it from play back in the 80s and quite frankly the quality of news 'reporting' has gone to shit since.

You're presuming some so-called 'Fairness Doctrine' would ensure a greater level equality. How does crap + crap = gold?

Offline Zakharra

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2011, 10:03:58 PM »
I thought that the Fairness Doctrine required the addition of the contrasting point of view - i.e., if you have an article on how awful the Dems are being for walking out of the Wisconsin Senate, you had to have an article on how awful the Repubs were being for trying to sneak the vote through without a quorum.

 From what I understand about it, it could either require a show put forth both sides or an issue, or the station/company that airs the show to put on a show that has an opposite view.  The problem with that is most shows (using radio as an example) are syndicated and the talk show host already has his/sher own format.

 The Fairness Doctrine (FD) can be used to either make that host give both sides even when they do not agree with the other side, or make the station that airs it put on another show that  has a diferent view.   Another part of the problem is most talk shows are political. If the FD is used to censor their speech (and it would be. Especially in today's political climate), then it's in direct violation of the Right to Free Speech.

 I can easily see politicians and bureacrats using the FD to shut up shows like Bill O'Reilly's or Glen Beck's.  I might not agree with them (personally I think they go overboard on sensationalism), but they have every right to be on the air. Unless they are openly and actively  talking the overthrow of the US (Teason. A -very- hard case to prove).

 If it did that for news shows, Onyia, it might not be so bad, but it's use wouldn't be limited to just  news shows.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2011, 10:11:58 PM »

You're presuming some so-called 'Fairness Doctrine' would ensure a greater level equality. How does crap + crap = gold?

How do you propose returning accountability to reporting?

Offline Zeitgeist

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2011, 10:25:40 PM »
How do you propose returning accountability to reporting?

Correction on my part, I meant to say quality rather than equality. Though one could say they are certainly related.

As me, the viewer, listener and reader it is up to me to drawn from multiple resources and come to a plausible truth. I don't suggest that news outlets don't have a responsibility to report the truth, they do, but to suggest the government can provide a likely remedy I think is off track. In my opinion we too often look to the government for redress when we should look to ourselves and our local communities. My first inclination is never to first look to Washington for a resolution. I'm perfectly capable of changing the channel, turning the page or finding multiple points of view online without the government's help.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2011, 10:39:32 PM »
Correction on my part, I meant to say quality rather than equality. Though one could say they are certainly related.

As me, the viewer, listener and reader it is up to me to drawn from multiple resources and come to a plausible truth. I don't suggest that news outlets don't have a responsibility to report the truth, they do, but to suggest the government can provide a likely remedy I think is off track. In my opinion we too often look to the government for redress when we should look to ourselves and our local communities. My first inclination is never to first look to Washington for a resolution. I'm perfectly capable of changing the channel, turning the page or finding multiple points of view online without the government's help.

I wasn't being sarcastic, I honestly don't see anything as POTENTIALLy viable as the Fairness Doctrine (and yes I'm not entirely happy with it) but there has been over the last 3 decades a growing LACK of personal accountability on the behalf of broadcast journalism in the US.

Yes, that makes me a relic wanting REPORTERS and not talking heads. I DESPISE folks like Glenn Beck being considered as reporters. I HATE things like the media.. feeding frenzy that occurs these days. They DEMAND to know everything, get into EVERYTHING and never care what their rampant revelation of facts might do at times.

The beltway sniper is the best example I can think of for me. I was in Maryland for school at NAS Pax River at the time. I HATED the fact that the media pushed and pushed and pushed the cops to tell EVERYTHING. Anything at all no matter the consequences to the public at large.

I watched the sherrif explode at the media and I was OUTRAGED how they made him into the bad guy. I mean they KEPT asking and asking and asking about elements of the case they had no NEED to know.

I know that accountability and responsibility are dead in the media and that I might be a relic for wanting them to step up and do their job again.

Offline Zeitgeist

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2011, 10:52:40 PM »

Yes, that makes me a relic wanting REPORTERS and not talking heads. I DESPISE folks like Glenn Beck being considered as reporters. I HATE things like the media.. feeding frenzy that occurs these days. They DEMAND to know everything, get into EVERYTHING and never care what their rampant revelation of facts might do at times.

I would only say that anyone who thinks Glenn Beck (Insert your favorite pundit here) is a reporter, needs to have their head checked. I mean, I can only presume Liberals don't believe Jon Stewart is a reporter, right? Its an SNL skit, nothing more.

Republican I may be, and while I know you aren't attacking me, I just want to reinforce that I know the difference between punditry and hard news.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2011, 10:58:44 PM »
I would only say that anyone who thinks Glenn Beck (Insert your favorite pundit here) is a reporter, needs to have their head checked. I mean, I can only presume Liberals don't believe Jon Stewart is a reporter, right? Its an SNL skit, nothing more.

Republican I may be, and while I know you aren't attacking me, I just want to reinforce that I know the difference between punditry and hard news.

I'm not Zam.. I'm that rare bird..the moderate Republican. I have a few issues that I really altered from the party line but more often not I prefer Republican canidates (with some national exceptions) over Democrats.

Offline Noelle

Re: Al Jazeera has passed Fox News in Internet Viewership
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2011, 05:56:30 PM »
I think writing Jon Stewart off as an SNL skit is pretty grossly inaccurate and shows a bit of a lack of understanding of what the Daily Show is and how it operates.

Yes, they run on Comedy Central. Yes, Jon Stewart is a comedian who uses humor and all of its subsidies such as wit and sarcasm to show the news. But to write it off as nothing more than a mindless skit with no purpose? More and more people are turning to TDS as a source of news and a way to supplement their political know-how because he has the creative freedom to point out the inaccuracies and hypocrisies of both sides from a fairly safe sideline and the means to do so in the avenue he knows best as a comedian -- comedy. He's reported on issues that sometimes "serious" news networks won't -- he was applauded later on for his involvement in the 9/11 responders case because he put a spotlight on an important issue that other networks didn't deem worthy and pointed out the glaring and disgusting hypocrisy of the GOP on the matter. Comedian though he is, it seriously begins to blur the lines between comedian and journalism because he walks the line very, very well.

It's not to say Jon Stewart is the paragon of absolute fairness -- it's no secret that he has a left lean and that his audience is largely liberal, but he has shown time and time again that he's willing to nail both sides on their stupidity when it comes around, which puts him miles and miles ahead of sources like Fox News or MSNBC. The Rally to Restore Sanity is a great example of Stewart reaching out to moderates who are turned off by the insanity of both sides of the fence.

Finally, Jon Stewart and Glenn Beck run shows that are nothing alike and to compare the two is laughable, at best. I only wish Glenn Beck's segment were nothing but satire in the way that Steven Colbert's is, but he's passing off his fringe lunacy as tangible fact in a way only Fox News could pull off -- blending opinion into fact to the point they're nearly indistinguishable. Even Jon Stewart consistently mocks his own show as not being very serious, his show peppered with obvious staged reporting despite the fact that when he needs to, he does report on very real issues. He at least attempts transparency and disclaimers that you should not take what he says as irrefutable truth. I'm not so sure that you can say the same thing for Beck.