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Author Topic: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming  (Read 1833 times)

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Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« on: January 29, 2011, 10:00:29 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/29/us-wikileaks-idUSTRE70R5A120110129

Is it me, or could Wikileaks board do well by putting him on leave or something? He's acting very.. arrogant.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2011, 06:54:00 PM »
 I'd say he is getting too cocky. He's going to make a mistake that he'll be nailed on, and it will not be a ton of bricks that lands on him, but the USS Ronald Regan. Or he'll release something that will piss off a mob boss or dictator type that'll have him assassinated to shut him up.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2011, 07:08:20 PM »
Like I said before, I respect some of the past actions and (at least in part) the goals of the Wikileaks organization (despite my comments and harshness towards them in my comments) and think at least at the moment he's more of a liability than an assett to the board.

You can't tell me he's the only person who can do anything or helm the organization. You got journalists, human rights activists and such.. someone can represent the organization without coming off as arrogant. This, in my opinion (and yeah.. I know I'm harsh on the media but their our watch dogs..), is quickly not being something about the organization and more and more about Julian Asssange versus the world.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 07:33:28 PM »
Well, OpenLeaks just launched. Like everything else, if someone has sole control and you don't like it, you have the option of leaving.

The question is if Assange does more for the organization than to harm it.

I don't think many people are going to weep for the banks, though.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2011, 07:56:14 PM »
Well, OpenLeaks just launched. Like everything else, if someone has sole control and you don't like it, you have the option of leaving.

The question is if Assange does more for the organization than to harm it.

I don't think many people are going to weep for the banks, though.

Depends, the cynic in me is wondering if he's shorting stocks to make some coin of the realm in an attempt to build a warchest for his upcoming defense.


Offline Vekseid

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2011, 08:11:07 PM »
Why would you pay the margin calls on that when you control the release date? That wouldn't be an explanation for why the release is taking so long.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2011, 09:38:10 PM »
Why would you pay the margin calls on that when you control the release date? That wouldn't be an explanation for why the release is taking so long.

 Possibly he is talking to them in secret and asking for money to not release their info?

The question is if Assange does more for the organization than to harm it.

I don't think many people are going to weep for the banks, though.

 Alot of people would if the banks collapse. If enough big ones go down, there goes any chance of an economic recovery.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 09:39:36 PM by Zakharra »

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2011, 10:06:17 PM »
My problem is that I don't think he honestly cares for anyone but Julian Assange. He strikes me as having a massive ego and I'm most likely going to watch his interview on 60 minutes tomorrow to get a better feel for him, but my gut tells me he likes putting the knife in and twisting it to watch others squirm.


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Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 07:24:29 AM »
Quote from: Zakharra

 Alot of people would [weep] if the banks collapse. If enough big ones go down, there goes any chance of an economic recovery.
         Assange is hardly the only person who thinks that banks should be more concerned about potential disclosures of their unethical activity.  A lot of people will be harmed if the banks go on as they have been, spawning major cyclical crises where consumers pay through the nose for those institutions that are supposed to protect money to...   You know, protect money.  And the big ones are not the only culprits:

Quote from: Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/too-big-to-fail-fail-2/
My basic view is that banking, left to its own devices, inherently poses risks of destabilizing runs; Iím a Diamond-Dybvig guy. To contain banking crises, the government ends up stepping in to protect bank creditors. This in turn means that you have to regulate banks in normal times, both to reduce the need for rescues and to limit the moral hazard posed by the rescues when they happen.

And hereís the key point: itís not at all clear that the size of individual banks makes much difference to this argument. Itís true that the big losses in mortgage-backed securities seem to have been concentrated at the big financial institutions. But the losses on commercial real estate, which look likely to be even worse per dollar lent, have been largely among smaller banks.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 07:26:00 AM by kylie »

Offline Vekseid

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2011, 05:23:39 PM »
Possibly he is talking to them in secret and asking for money to not release their info?

There is zero evidence for this. There is evidence that Bank of America is doing everything it can think of with knowledge that is publicly available, and no more.

Quote
Alot of people would if the banks collapse. If enough big ones go down, there goes any chance of an economic recovery.

I remember Joe Biden and others claiming this. I have yet to see anyone offer proof beyond the basic concepts behind a liquidity crisis, which we are still in, and which the solution offered by libertarians and progressives alike - prop up smaller, responsible banks instead - solves even better.

My problem is that I don't think he honestly cares for anyone but Julian Assange. He strikes me as having a massive ego and I'm most likely going to watch his interview on 60 minutes tomorrow to get a better feel for him, but my gut tells me he likes putting the knife in and twisting it to watch others squirm.

Well no, but it's a mistake to jump to the conclusion that it's money that he's after.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2011, 05:32:29 PM »
True Veks, but the more I read about the guy the more I feel that only one thing matters to him. Julian Assange. I've bought the Wikileaks book and reading through it.

One of the weird things about wikileaks is I've seen other members of the boards being referred to in general but no one specific except for those folks who have left the group to found other similar sites.  My google fu hasn't been up to this for some reason.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2011, 06:24:04 PM »
OpenLeaks? http://openleaks.org/

There are smaller organizations with more specific roles, plus the New York Times is setting up their own variant.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2011, 06:32:04 PM »
I think Callie means that info about those people that have left are easy to find (like OpenLeaks), but the other members of the boards - aside from Assange himself - are being kept rather close to the vest.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2011, 06:54:30 PM »
I think Callie means that info about those people that have left are easy to find (like OpenLeaks), but the other members of the boards - aside from Assange himself - are being kept rather close to the vest.

Exactly. I can't find a list of the board members at all. The vibe I've been getting is that Assange is the man in charge on many levels. The site says stuff about Chinese reformers and journalists but no NAMES are listed anywhere.

It's sort of like Assange likes keeping HIS secrets.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2011, 08:04:33 PM »
Exactly. I can't find a list of the board members at all. The vibe I've been getting is that Assange is the man in charge on many levels. The site says stuff about Chinese reformers and journalists but no NAMES are listed anywhere.

It's sort of like Assange likes keeping HIS secrets.

 So he can spill other peoples secrets, but not his own.  Hhhmm.. 

Offline Vekseid

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2011, 04:02:53 AM »
Well a lot of their mailing list archives are available on Cryptome, despite Assange's whining about it.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2011, 10:12:31 AM »
Well a lot of their mailing list archives are available on Cryptome, despite Assange's whining about it.

 Assange is whining about his comapny's mailing being out for others to see?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2011, 10:21:50 AM »
Is that a mailing list as in the old LISTSERV and YahooGroups types?

Offline Vekseid

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2011, 02:29:09 PM »
Assange is whining about his comapny's mailing being out for others to see?

The organization.

http://cryptome.org/wikileaks/wikileaks-leak.htm
http://cryptome.org/wikileaks/wikileaks-leak2.htm

Cryptome.org is where people found/posted dirt on stuff before Wikileaks, but it is technically rather than politically oriented.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2011, 02:31:33 PM »
This may be enlightening to some people.
http://cryptome.org/0002/wikileaks-unlike.htm

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2011, 12:39:57 PM »
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/02/wikileaks-sweden/

Not sure if this counts as 'ironic' but the court documents on Assange's case in Sweden got leaked. I don't know Swedish sex crime laws, which I understand are among the harshest in the world, but the case that Assange is a tool if becoming easier to prove.

I'm still dubious about the likelihood of him being successfully found guilty BUT I think the documents do a good job to prove this isn't a witch hunt and he could have avoided a lot of problems if he'd been willing to cooperate. (Refusal to get an HIV test is kind of strange to me but then I'm weird like that.)

Offline Trieste

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Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2011, 02:59:15 PM »
The smugness surrounding this is a little disturbing. Julian Assange is an individual, with individual rights; the fact that his detractors don't seem to understand the distinction between an individual's rights and the rights of a corporation or government makes me a bit queasy. It's as if, for the sake of the effort to discredit him, people don't stop to think about how they would feel if their court docs were leaked.

Sigh.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2011, 03:17:38 PM »
The smugness surrounding this is a little disturbing. Julian Assange is an individual, with individual rights; the fact that his detractors don't seem to understand the distinction between an individual's rights and the rights of a corporation or government makes me a bit queasy. It's as if, for the sake of the effort to discredit him, people don't stop to think about how they would feel if their court docs were leaked.

Sigh.

So? Are we talking about smugness on HIS part or the governments? They didn't lose the documents. His lawyer did. And what about the women who were accusing him? Every single detail of their life was put out for scrutiny when the charges were filed. The folks at Anonymous made sure of that. 

It's not my favorite point in the issue with Wikileaks.. when it's in his 'defense' a lot of folks say it's fair game.. but when it comes down against him it's 'a conspiracy to defame him'. I find the lack of transparency for Wikileaks and the lack of organization administration and oversight of the organization and Assange's role disturbing.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2011, 04:28:54 PM »
Okay. When you're talking about personal rights and privacy, there is a difference between professional and personal privacy. There is a difference between organizational and individual privacy. Hopefully I can lay it out in a clear manner, though it's not a black and white, cut-and-dried area all the time. Most of the time, however, distinctions can be made.

The women who were accusing him have the right to personal privacy. As far as I know, Julian Assange benefits from Anonymous' activities but he doesn't encourage or incite them. Ergo, Assange is not responsible for Anonymous' (reprehensible) behavior. Anonymous is nothing more than a bunch of trolls who like to wear a hero's mask (figuratively; Guy Fawkes could hardly be considered a hero save in certain circles - although the symbol he has become is heroic, but I digress).

Where Wikileaks the company is concerned, there should absolutely be transparency. I don't disagree with you there, although I don't know how much transparency they can really afford given how many people are gunning for them and their resources. The employees of Wikileaks should be held up to the light just as much as they hold others up to the light unless it compromises their safety to do so.

What the employees do in their personal lives is nobody's business. None.

Assange's legal paperwork and the proceedings against him as an individual are nobody's business, and should be given the same protection as other criminal proceedings.

Assange the person deserves privacy just as much as the next person. Assange the businessman does not.

I hope the distinction is clear.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Wikileaks: Assange likes Banks squirming
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2011, 04:43:55 PM »
Thank you, that clarifies things a lot.

I personally think that Wikileaks needs more oversight. From what I've read and looked into for a site dedicated to transparency and 'secrets must be free', there is little or no data available on them. No rules of conduct, mission statement beyond a few bare sentences, and very few (if any names) tied to the organization beyond Julian Assange. From what I've read in the media, which is mostly written by the folks at the New York Times and The Guardian (both of whom had a professional working relationship with him) dissent is not tolerated within Wikileaks and there is next to no directing input beyond Assange. Any comment to the contrary (such as his interview with the Times) is brushed off as irrelevant and/or a betrayal of him.

I watched the interview he did with 60 minutes and read through the article again. It SEEMS to me, that had he done some basic cooperation with the authorities in Sweden (particularly at considering at the time he was pulling something like 100,000 euros a day in donations) he could have hired a lawyer and left the country legally and without giving them ANY grounds for the warrant that has him under house arrest at the moment.

Every time I look into the issues at hand it seems for every obstacle put in front of the man, he sets out two himself.

And the more I have to wonder if someone like him should be running an organization like Wikileaks with the autonomy that he apparently has.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 08:30:39 PM by Callie Del Noire »