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Author Topic: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up  (Read 3577 times)

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Offline mystictiger

Re: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2010, 07:49:47 PM »
Quote
They may be representative, but unfortunately, they're also less-educated ... (as was shown here).

No, it really wasn't! From your link

TP / Average America
No College: 34 / 35
Some College: 34 / 32
Graduate: 16 / 17
Postgrad: 15 / 16

I would really like to see a similar breakdown for other parties. The closest I could find was from the presidential election.

Quote
Me? I'm waiting for the day that the Tea Party politicians show that they don't have all the right answers just like any other party and that they're not some specials snowflake organization that magically speaks for "real Americans". If that phrase was never used again, I wouldn't miss it in the least

Absolutely! This was the best bit about BNP arse-hats getting elected in various elections - they're either forced to more moderate positions to be useful or they reveal how crap they really are.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 08:01:40 PM by mystictiger »

Offline Noelle

Re: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2010, 08:14:43 PM »
Sorry, perhaps I misworded what I meant. I think they're representative of an "average American" in mindset in that they're not terribly educated and often get their facts wrong. The Tea Party members I met at my old job were often old men who thought they had the solution to everything when really it wasn't terribly realistic and they could never offer any alternative explanations when their ideas were proven to be bunk. It seems that "average Americans" gravitate towards people who yell the loudest rather than people who have reasonable, albeit occasionally "grin and bear it"-type solutions. People often don't want to make the hard decisions if it means a better outcome overall, they want instant gratification through bullshit slogans like SMALL GOVERNMENT, LOWER TAXES that they can barely back with their own knowledge.

Offline mystictiger

Re: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2010, 09:07:27 PM »
I suspect that you're not just describing average Americans there. I would imagine that the Tea Party, strikes in France and Greece, and so on are all manifestations of a similar sense of disbelief with our politicians. One month they give billions to the bankers that cause the problems, and the next month they're doing a fire-sale on state services.

If given a vote the morning after the budget cut, I would've voted for 'Anyone Who Is Not In Power'

Offline Trieste

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Re: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2010, 09:25:51 PM »
Honestly, I think that people want lower taxes and less government because they do not trust the people in power with their money. I think that for some reason, people feel like they will fare better if they hang onto their hard-earned cash. I think that, as Vekseid has touched on earlier, many Tea Partiers don't realize how much is left up to the state governments, and whatnot.

In short, I think that Tea Partiers really do represent 'average Americans' in that they have their head jammed up their asses and don't realize the ramifications of their own battle cry. I think that your average American is woefully undereducated when it comes to politics. I think that the severe danger of the Tea Party is that these people are energized to vote without educating themselves about the electoral process, the budgeting process, and so on. If you want an example of the dangers of that, take a look at California. The Governator has, pretty much since he took office, refused to partake in budget hearings. He thinks they are ridiculous. He calls it 'kabuki theater' and makes fun of the process.

So, California, how are those tax refunds coming? Hm.

Ignorant people do not automagically become competent just because they decide to become active in politics. It makes them dangerous. It makes them shrill. It makes them smug. It makes them rather icky in general.

Offline mystictiger

Re: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2010, 09:31:29 PM »
Quote
Ignorant people do not automagically become competent just because they decide to become active in politics. It makes them dangerous. It makes them shrill. It makes them smug. It makes them rather icky in general.

In my country, we call those people Conservative MPs ;)

But yes, I understand your point more generally. At the same time, educated people don't automatically become excellent leaders. I think of Blair's shameful conduct, and I think of the bitter disappointment that Obama, Prince of Peace, Lord of Hope, Herald of Change has become.

I just wish the US would hurry up and elect Jed Bartlet. A liberal philosopher king.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2010, 09:52:12 PM »
If this causes the country to elect someone like Sticky Santorum as president, I'm outta here.

Offline Jude

Re: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2010, 09:58:03 PM »
The Tea Party wasn't actually born from the Obama resurgence of liberalism -- that's a narrative they like to spin often so that they can envision themselves as freedom fighters reacting dramatically against a rising tide of socialism.  Was it a factor?  I can't deny that, I mean if Obama came into office and governed with extreme moderation they probably wouldn't exist.  I'd say the current brand of Tea Party is largely a reaction to John McCain being chosen as the Republican Nominee for the President in 2008.

Bush and Cheney ran the Republican party into the ground to the point that no one was willing to even consider voting for another neo-conservative, hardline Republican.  The party knew that anyone who had a chance of getting elected in 2008 would have to be a moderate with a record of independence in order to eschew anti-Republican sentiment.  McCain got the support because he was the only one running who had a chance of winning.  Attempts to placate the Republican base with the likes of Sarah Palin somewhat succeeded (especially while McCain doubled back on many issues to try and seem more conservative to the base in contrast to his reputation as a moderate), but when McCain lost the hardliners put all of the blame at his feet in order to avoid accepting the outright truth that the election was a repudiation of neo-conservatism.

From there this myth was born that the reason why Bush and McCain failed and the country turned against conservatives is because they weren't conservative enough.  At the same time the public brand of the Republican Party was melting down.  There were calls for ideological purity all over the place, which resulted in many moderates turning away from the Republican Party as their base basically ate them alive.

The Tea Party was born on Tax Day in 2009, and they spread like wildfire not because of the prominence of their ideas (which were very loose at the time, only somewhat partisan, but primarily an outcry against the Bailout and taxes), but because of rabid promotion on Fox News and Talk Radio.  Tea Parties sprouted throughout the country, and disaffected neocons found a vehicle back into public prominence as they transformed the Tea Party through media mouthpieces like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.  Dick Army, Newt Gingrich, and Sarah Palin all saddled themselves to the movement, and have been readily accepted -- Sarah Palin even spoke at their biggest convention.

If the Republicans had never sent a moderate in as the nominee in 2008, there would've been no backlash against the Republican establishment, and I highly doubt the Tea Party would've gone much of anywhere.  It was hijacked and blown up because it was necessary for them to do so, the party's credibility needed a vehicle to rebrand itself, and the Tea Party worked well.

What's especially sad is there could've been a shift away from the hard-right towards Libertarian ideals that would've left social conservatives out in the cold while growing the conservative party into something that the younger crowd could get behind.  While I am no Libertarian, I think they have a lot of ideas I can get behind, and I could see myself voting for a moderate Libertarian easily.  Unfortunately, social conservatism seems even deeper embedded in conservative politics than the corresponding governmental and economic principles which actually represent "freedom."

Neither the Republican Party or the Tea Party went Libertarian, the only real difference between them now is that the Republican Party is more pro-business.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Tea Party Arguments Summed Up
« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2010, 04:41:24 PM »
No, it really wasn't! From your link

TP / Average America
No College: 34 / 35
Some College: 34 / 32
Graduate: 16 / 17
Postgrad: 15 / 16

I've said it before with regards to these stats and I'll say it again, I would love to see these normalized for age, gender, and racial makeup.