Pirates vs. Ninjas whos your pick?

[Silk & Steel]

But then, I don't find the idea of 'honor' sexy, give me a long haired, powerfully built man who has been at sea for a few weeks... mmm. He can board my ship anytime. 

So you wanta take me up on that - seriously if interested in a one-to-one pirate game let me know

Arggh matey...(then I can tell you my one real true life argh matey story- although not many people find it that funny)

Cheers,

[Vandren]

Bah, once a pirate always a pirate my foot.

Over a given length of time, it still holds up.  :)

Francis Drake was a pirate in the eyes of the spanish - The english knighted him!

True . . . but Drake wasn't a true pirate.  Officially he was a privateer.  Unofficially, he was the Elizabethan era's version of a special forces soldier, seeing as most of his "piracy" involved attacking Spanish ports and ruining their war making materials.

Henry Morgan was a pirate and ended up the governor of Jamaica, rich, and with a knighthood.

After he gave up piracy.  He was no longer a pirate when he became governor.  On the other hand, in a classic ninja legend, Morgan would simultaneously be governor and knight by day and a ninja (assassin/spy) by night.  :)

(Honestly, I think both have their strong and weak points and neither is better or worse than the other.  It's effectively comparing apples and oranges, but I'm playing devil's advocate for the ninja, just for fun.  :) )

[kat]

V> I'm just pushing for pirates because of personal preference. Ninja's just don't do it for me. *shrug*

Besides, a lot of pirates had letters of Marque (and were thus technically "privateers"), privateers, buccaneers, etc. are all just types of pirates.

Of course I could talk about this all day, the topic of pirates interests me, which is why I did my Western Civ. term paper on them (and finished up my history minor, yay).

S&S> I don't know if I'm up for a one on one game just now, maybe another time.

[Vandren]

Besides, a lot of pirates had letters of Marque (and were thus technically "privateers"), privateers, buccaneers, etc. are all just types of pirates.

Very true.  Which is why I pointed out Drake as an Elizabethan spec ops type rather than a "real" pirate.  To me, at least, a pirate is someone out boarding ships, pillaging, etc. for his/her own gain and that of his/her crew.  Someone doing it for "King and Country" is simply just another soldier, in my eyes.  Like the difference between a freelance mercenary and a U.S. Marine.

Of course I could talk about this all day, the topic of pirates interests me, which is why I did my Western Civ. term paper on them (and finished up my history minor, yay).

Ah, a fellow history minor!  Focused mine on the medieval & Renaissance periods.  Dovetailed nicely with my graduate work in medieval/Renaissance English literature.  :)

[kat]

My minor focused more on central and eastern euopean development from the renaissance to the late 1800's. I've actually been considering changing my minor into a double major, but that would mean at least another semester and more likely another full year of college. And with only another year to go, I'm not sure I want to prolong it any further - and well, I've got grad school after this too. Yikes! :)

[Vandren]

My minor focused more on central and eastern euopean development from the renaissance to the late 1800's. I've actually been considering changing my minor into a double major, but that would mean at least another semester and more likely another full year of college. And with only another year to go, I'm not sure I want to prolong it any further - and well, I've got grad school after this too. Yikes! :)

:)  I know how that is.  Working on my third degree right now (3 more years to go), and I'm already planning my fourth (a second M.A., this time in History).  So, that'd be . . . 5+ more years of school, all told, plus the 7 I've already put in.  :)

[kat]

Well, I've only got 1 year left on my B.S. in Poli. Sci. and and I'll be done my economics minor by christmas. Then its off to work on my Masters in Poli Sci and then try for the PhD. I want to be known as Dr. Kat, heh. I think a bachelors of History would be nice too, if I can find the time for that I will do it since I love the subject (and I found out I have more books on Russian history than my local library system - scary).

But I digress from the pirate/ninja debate.

Uhm...

Pirates rule, Ninjas drool!

because... because pirates have bigger ships and 'cannons' *wink wink* 

[Vandren]

Well, I've only got 1 year left on my B.S. in Poli. Sci. and and I'll be done my economics minor by christmas. Then its off to work on my Masters in Poli Sci and then try for the PhD. I want to be known as Dr. Kat, heh. I think a bachelors of History would be nice too, if I can find the time for that I will do it since I love the subject (and I found out I have more books on Russian history than my local library system - scary).

Ah, you've hit the book issue too . . .   :)  Three more years on my PhD in Lit.  Then I'll be Dr. Van, and finally Prof. Van.  Found out one nearby university would waive their B.A. in History requirement for me if I applied to their M.A. program because I took so much for my minor (two long projects shy of a double major).

But I digress from the pirate/ninja debate.

Uhm...

Pirates rule, Ninjas drool!

because... because pirates have bigger ships and 'cannons' *wink wink* 

Sure, sure . . . typical pirate, always talk 'bout and thinkin' with their "cannons" . . . 

[Lilian]

Pirates may have bigger ships and 'cannons', but the expertise, percision, and downright kinkiness of a ninja can stimulate FAR more than the basic intercourse of a pirate.

At least... this is in assumption. I'd love to find out.. myself..

[Celestial Goblin]

Ninjas attain their skill by discipline and training under a master that they have to obey.
Pirates don't answer to no man or god.
Pirates for me, improvised weapons, shoddy gear, and attacking in a big bunch.
Ninja's have to act all alone most of the time, pirates have comradery.
Ninja's have to serve, pirates are free.
And when it comes to combat, well, number will always decide, the side that has lesser men will win.
Imagine a lone ninja on a ship full of pirates, of course he wins.
But imagine a single drunk pirate that gets ambushed by a horde of ninjas. Unless he's ugly and evil he'll carve them up with his cutlass. If he doesn't have a weapon, better for him, bring out the chair and broken bottle.

[Zakharra]

 Pirates. They get the ships, cannon, the freedom to roam and had a government backing them at times. Plus they get the girls, booze, LOTS of loot and had fun.

Ninjas snuck around disquising themselves and generally tried to stay hidden. They did not get girls, booze or loot.

Pirates do it with style and a difient attitude. Ninja just do it and vanish in the night. When a pirate had been there, you know it.

Ninja: sneakiness, remains in the background, generally poor and always attacked if found  out.
Pirates: sexy manly chests and swagger *cough*, open about what they are, lots of loot, booze, a willingness to spend said loot, able to be open about what and who they are, and a governmental backer at times.

[TaurusMagi82]

Being a martial artist myself, I'm definatly partial to the ninja for several reasons.

1: Ninjas were very knowledgeable in vital points to strike, making them vastly more effective in a fistfight.

2. Ninjas were skilled in the use of more weapons than I can count, including: Ninjato (short sword), spear, manrikigusari (Chain with weights), Kusarigama (chain scythe), Kama (hand scythe), tonfa, shuriken (traditionally used more for distraction than actual killing), Fukimi Bari (needles spit from the mouth), bagh naghs (claws), ashuko and Shuko (Hand and foot spikes for climbing), Kunai (throwing knives), Jo and Bo staves, Bows, Escrima sticks, nunchaku, san setsu kon Nunchaku (three sectioned, but smaller sections than a staff)... and a whole mess I'm sure I'm forgetting.

By contrast, pirates used flintlock pistols that were horribly inaccurate even at point blank range, and prone to backfires, misfires, and all sorts of mayhem. Pirates usually used a flintlock in conjunction with a saber or cutlass (though these were not strictly the only weapons they used). Their skill with a sword was limited to what they could learn from the best swordsman on deck, who essentially figured out how to use a sword himself, whereas Shinobi used techniques handed down for hundreds of years with rigourous accuracy.

3. Ninja were strictly sober when "working"... and pirates were definatly not. This hinders the pirates.

4. Shinobi used carefully laid out plans, and smart deployment of their numbers in large-scale attacks. Pirates used confusion and loud noises to startle their opponents, and shock them into defeat. As Shinobi usually attacked at the time where the least people were awake, they met with far more success on a "raid" than Pirates.

5. Shinobi were also masters of indirect fighting. A well-timed distraction with a swift followup attack works incredibly well. Pirates were far, far more direct, as one can see a boat comming from miles off, and it's hard to "sneak up" on someone at sea.

6. Use of poisons and disease puts Ninja ahead in the biological warfare game. Poisoning a ship's water supply will guarantee the death of the crew in just a few days, as Seawater is not very good for drinking, and ports were far away.

7. With proper training, a Ninja could win a straight fistfight without surprise in a few seconds, using simple techniques to break the knees, elbows, rupture internal organs, break the collarbone or sternum etc. Shinobi also trained in fighting several armed or unarmed opponents at once. Pirates rarely trained in such things. They just tried to overwhelm their opponents.

Overall, the question of who'd win in a fight is more than clear BUT that wasn't necessarily the question. The question was who is cooler, and pirates are still pretty damn cool. I impersonate them on a regular basis, usually while under the influence  I'm partial to feats of skill and training, so I cast my vote for the Ninja, while raising my mug to the Pirates as a worthy runner-up.

[Xerial]

Pirates get my vote... why? Stayng power. There are simply more pirates than ninjas these days... they adapted with the times. Ninjas are so stuck on tradition that they got swallowed up. Meanwhile, as a sailor myself, I've been told the next forefront of Navy deployment may well be patrolling to combat Indonesian piracy.

You don't see them sending the army after ninjas, now do you?

[Lancis]

Well of course not... Ninjas have finesse and stealth.. although armies have been sent after them historically :)

[Hunter]

Actually, ninjas are still around.  If you know where to look, you can still learn to be one.

[Lancis]

in the depths of the mountains in Asia somewhere, although i have seen ads for Ninjitsu schools here in the states i doubt it is true ninjitsu they teach :)

[Humble Scribe]

Which kind of begs the question as to what 'true' ninjitsu is. In films and comics it seems to boil down to wearing black, even when it's totally inappropriate, having tabi shoes and carrying around a few shuriken. And dying in droves...

In reality ninja and kunoichi were basically just spies and scouts, and only occasionally assassins. And stealth is stealth and disguise is disguise the world over. Apart from having a few specialised weapons and a knowledge of poisons, there was nothing especially remarkable about ninja. You could argue most spies and terrorists today effectively use the same techniques.
As for the schools today, I think you're essentially right. I have a friend who is a ninjitsu black belt, but he would freely admit that it's basically a made up martial art invented in Japan around the turn of the 20th century, and bears only a vague resemblance to anything medieval Japanese ninja would have done. Overall I'd go for yamabushi every time. They were (and are in some cases) real headcases.

Pirates - at least the ones from the 'golden age' of piracy (1715-25) were just out of work sailors who took to armed robbery. They were also pretty incompetent - mostly drunk, often with little idea of navigation, and they preyed on merchant ships who had much smaller crews, and got them to surrender by developing a reputation for brutality with anyone who didn't. As soon as they came up against naval ships, even much smaller naval ships than the pirate vessels, the effect of decent training and discipline usually became apparent. Pirates always ran away from naval ships if they could - they were crooks, not warriors, and they knew they wouldn't win.

I think both pirates and ninja have reputations that far exceed their actual effectiveness, in combat or otherwise. In both cases I suspect this reputation was deliberately cultivated and promoted (to frighten the opposition). They are the beneficiaries of medieval (or Georgian) 'spin'.

[Lilian]

I still like the ninjitsu who were the defenders of thier homes and people, before they began to get that corrupted image. And I like pirates, yarrr, the less clothes the better! Raise my my mizzen mast, maties, yer booty's about to be plundered!   Lemme swab your poop deck!

I'm horrid, I know... but I'm on such a carribean binge. I've been hitting all oy mf pirates games..

Port Royale, Port Royale 2, Sea Dogs, Pirates! Gold, Pirates! 2, Sea Dogs, Sea Legends... -@.@  I've yet to get Pirates of the Carribean, it uses the Sea Legends engine, but makes some tweaks... really nice graphics tho... does some things right, some things wrong, eh. About to be expected.

I actually heard of this furry pirates RPG where they dont even allow any real non-furries, just lizards. No amphibians, nothing aquatic...  it pledges realism, yet steals history and makes it all cats and dogs and stuff... @.@   I couldnt believe it. x.x;

But.. erm... hmm. I do love pirates and ninjas, even a ninja who left her home after it was destroyed by a cruel lord and became a seagoer, driven to piracy by need and skill, the best of both worlds! Ninjapirates!

Seemingly abandoned ships, slowily floating through the fog have never been more dangerous. -grins-

[Lancis]

also notes that pirates have dressed like ninjas...

*points at the movie "The Princess bride."*

[GoldenChild]

And what a movie it is 

[Lancis]

yep i agree :)

[Garth]

I'll throw in my two cents for pirates.

Pirate-talk is waaay cooler then Nijna-talk. (Spet 19 is National Talk Like a Pirate Day http://www.talklikeapirate.com/) There is no National Talk Like a Ninja Day.

Pirates hang out by the sea all the time. I love the ocean. Pirate life is on the beach.

In similar light, Pirates go and visit torpical Islands all the time.  Ninjas don't. I rather be laying naked on a beach on a tropical island then laying naked in the middle of Japan..

Top Ten Pickup for Pirates from http://www.talklikeapirate.com/

10 . Avast, me proud beauty! Wanna know why my Roger is so Jolly?

9. Have ya ever met a man with a real yardarm?

8. Come on up and see me urchins.

7. Yes, that is a hornpipe in my pocket and I am happy to see you.

6. I'd love to drop anchor in your lagoon.

5. Pardon me, but would ya mind if fired me cannon through your porthole?

4. How'd you like to scrape the barnacles off of me rudder?

3. Ya know, darlin’, I’m 97 percent chum free.

2. Well blow me down?

1. Prepare to be boarded.