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Author Topic: MasterMischief Explores Taoism  (Read 14484 times)

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Online Oniya

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Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2012, 10:55:36 AM »
Direct your hatred* towards the actions, rather than the person/people committing the action.  When my sister and her wife came to my parents' house the Christmas after their commitment ceremony, I had used a wedding sampler pattern to make them a commemorative piece.  That was my way of showing support in a way that 'spoke' to anyone who saw it.

In another instance, (my parents are quite conservative and stuck in the '50s sometimes), I didn't restrict the invites to my wedding to 'please' anyone - my parents and other straight-laced relatives got to spend the day with my very civil, but very 'unique' gaming buddies.  As a still-unknown member of my family said: 'We've spent the whole day with these people, and they're intelligent, articulate, and well - um - fun!'  Text does not convey the utter surprise of the anonymous speaker, unfortunately.

*Personally, if I know the person, it's more disappointment than hatred, because most of the people I surround myself with aren't intentionally hateful.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2012, 11:22:16 AM »
I do not hate the haters.  It is their hate I want to try and redirect.

I do not know of anyone in my circle of friends that is gay.  I do have a couple of aunts that are in a same sex relationship.  But then, I am pretty sure all of my friends are already gay-positive.  I do not think it would be very Wu Wei to start dragging people off the street to meet my gay aunts.   ;D

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #102 on: January 05, 2012, 01:56:22 PM »
 
I just happened upon a new meaning for Wu Wei here.

Wu wei is an important tenet of Taoism that involves knowing when to act and when not to act.

It occurred to me with this definition, could you say that wu wei is wisdom?

Going back to my previous difficulties, this certainly makes sense for me. Unfortunately, it does not, of itself, offer any answer for me. It is still up to me to recognize when I should do something and when not to do something.

Maybe what I need is patience. Maybe I should watch for an opportunity to present itself and be prepared to make the most of that opportunity. I do not like it when other people try to cram their beliefs down my throat. I am sure I would encounter more resistance and possibly do harm should I attempt to strong arm my beliefs on others. No one said doing the right thing would be easy. Patience is never easy.

When I was younger, I took on these 'crusades'. Back then, it was drugs and alcohol. I have mellowed on those topics. I do not think my efforts yielded much except perhaps convincing my class mates I was some kind of narc.

Maybe I should focus more on love instead of the anger of the injustice I perceive. I should be a fountain and not a drain.

I am not expecting to find the answer here and now. This is really mostly an internal dialogue for me. Not that I do not appreciate other's input. I just do not want people to feel they need to 'help' me. I am not even sure where I am going. How can anyone know how to help me get there? :)
 

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #103 on: January 07, 2012, 08:30:19 PM »
I am not expecting to find the answer here and now. This is really mostly an internal dialogue for me. Not that I do not appreciate other's input. I just do not want people to feel they need to 'help' me. I am not even sure where I am going. How can anyone know how to help me get there? :)

I know it is trite by now but: Dao ke dao, fei chang dao. Ming ke ming, fei chang ming?

Since you like Kung Fu Panda 2 (and I should clarify I do like it, just think that it is less of a good movie than one), think of Ox and Croc. I know that in the context of the film their refusal to fight is not necessarily admirable...but it proved to be the right decision. When Po and the furious five used force at the inopportune moment they brought nothing bur destruction and pain to themselves and others. It was only later, and only by finding an imperturbability of mind in the opportune moment that Shen was overcome.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #104 on: January 07, 2012, 09:08:31 PM »
Am I understanding you to mean, right action wrong time?  Timing and execution are just as important as intention?

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #105 on: January 12, 2012, 11:01:37 PM »
Laozi certainly had a thing for timing. There are entire passages of the Daodejing that can be summed up as: 'wait for the opportune moment, do something awesome, profit (secretly)' although...that would probably do them disrespect to phrase it that way.

As an example let us say that you find the seeds of the rare flower that grows, blooms, and dies in one day. Further it can only grow at all on a single specific day of the year. The fool plants the seed before its time and toils day by day to make it grow. He pours his labor into the ground, futilely performing all the right actions but with no result. The wise man waits until the opportune time, plants the seed, nurtures it, and watches it grow without wasted effort. The wise man will also accept its passing at the end of the day.

Or, if we must keep using the Panda...a wise man accepts that his peach tree will bloom in its own time and always produces peaches.

Another example that Laozi uses is that of a sword and a bow. If you draw a bow back beyond the point of balance it can break. If you sharpen your sword every day in anticipation of the moment to use it, you will only weaken it and it will fail you when the moment to use it actually comes.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2012, 05:30:41 PM »
You have given me much to think about, DarklingAlice.  Thank you.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #107 on: January 18, 2012, 10:12:12 AM »
When people see things as beautiful,
ugliness is created.
When people see things as good,
evil is created.

Being and non-being produce each other.
Difficult and easy complement each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low oppose each other.
Fore and aft follow each other.

Therefore the Master
can act without doing anything
and teach without saying a word.
Things come her way and she does not stop them;
things leave and she lets them go.
She has without possessing,
and acts without any expectations.
When her work is done, she take no credit.
That is why it will last forever.


Is the ultimate objective to be completely impartial to everything?  That seems impractical.  Not to mention, Taoism seems to dislike absolutes.

Is it that we should simply be mindful of the duality of the universe?  I certainly see plenty of examples of that in my life.  For everything I find beautiful, someone else will find it ugly.  You can not have light without darkness.  Does it follow that we must have evil then?  Must we accept it?

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #108 on: January 27, 2012, 12:06:41 PM »
 
According to Wikipedia on Hermeticism:

As stated above In Hermetic religion the supreme Deity, or Principle, is referred to variously as 'God', 'The All', or 'The One'. The absolute is the central focus of Hermeticism and therefore it is difficult to assign it a position among the traditional Theistic religions, or along the monotheistic and polytheistic spectrum.

Hermeticism transcends both Monotheism and Polytheism as well as Deism and Pantheism within its belief system, which teaches that there is a transcendent God, The All, or The One, of which we, and the entire universe, participate.


In addition:

"That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above, corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracles of the One Thing".

I see a lot of similarity with Taoism. Is there similarity between religions because the Truth reveals a little of itself to everyone or because humanity is bound by similarities?
 

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Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #109 on: January 27, 2012, 12:33:29 PM »
The 'as above, so below' tenet is seen in various Pagan faiths as well. 

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2012, 05:43:05 PM »
More similarities.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #111 on: February 01, 2012, 11:55:27 AM »
I caught myself talking in riddles and imagery today which gave me a new perspective on taoist writings.  I hated Shakespere in highschool because it was not vernacular.  I like (or at least I used to) crisp, consise writing.  I still can not bring myself to read Tolkien.

But today, I think I had an insight in why imagery can be preferred.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #112 on: February 03, 2012, 01:05:16 PM »
 
My random thought for the day.

There is the possibility for success in everything. You need the tools, the time and the capacity. Have these things at your disposal. Then find the opportunity to execute.
 

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #113 on: February 28, 2012, 08:13:00 PM »
I was doing some light reading today when something occurred to me.  It is very much, I think, how the Tao Te Ching opens...but in my own words.

Can anyone ever truly know what is meant by a text without actually being the author?  Can you ever know exactly why they chose certain words?  Can you ever understand their unique life perspective?

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2012, 09:22:38 PM »
I found a local Taoism discussion group.  "Those who know, don't talk" aside...it was very insightful.  I am looking forward to the next session.

I have decided I need to talk less next time.  I was like an over excited puppy.  >.>

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #115 on: April 04, 2012, 09:51:09 AM »
When you step but lightly through the world,
You are but lightly affected by it;
But when you pass through events with a deeper tread,
Their tricks and schemes are profound.
Thus the gentleman knows
Simplicity is better than a show of dexterity.
Thus he knows
A rude single-mindedness is better than a distorted
show of manners.

--Hung Ying-ming

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #116 on: April 05, 2012, 07:32:28 AM »
My thought for the day: Life is a circle.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #117 on: April 11, 2012, 02:41:17 PM »
Those who stand on tiptoes
do not stand firmly.
Those who rush ahead
don't get very far.
Those who try to outshine others
dim their own light.
Those who call themselves righteous
can't know how wrong they are.
Those who boast of their accomplishments
diminish the things they have done.

Compared to the Tao, these actions are unworthy.
If we are to follow the Tao, we must not do these things.


What?!  You mean I can not tell everyone what a totally awesome llama I am!  Screw you, Tao!

I had read somewhere that people like us not for how we make them feel about us, but how we make them feel about themselves.  I started to pay closer attention to my friendships and acquaintances as well as observing other's relationships and I realized there seemed to be a great deal of truth in this.

I have tried to apply it to my own life.  I find it is much easier when you do not feel the need to be the smartest or coolest or the anything-est.  Just listen to people and they will love you.

I'm still totally awesome though.   ;D

Offline rick957

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #118 on: April 11, 2012, 03:31:48 PM »
That's really insightful, MM.  Thank you for sharing that.

Side question, is that also the McDonald translation (which you also quoted in that other thread)?  Do you find that translation superior, or is it just the one you happen to have?  I'm reasonably sure that the copy of the Tao Te Ching that I used to own (and might still, I'd have to check) was translated by Stephen Somethingorother, who also translated a wide variety of poetry and other religious texts that I found interesting.  (Rainer Maria Rilke's poetry, for example.) 

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #119 on: April 11, 2012, 09:15:46 PM »
It was just the one I had handy.  When I want to look over different translations, I go here.  I found Ron Hogan's to be the most accessible.

Tao's neutral:
it doesn't worry about good or evil.
The Masters are neutral:
they treat everyone the same.
Lao Tzu said Tao is like a bellows:
It's empty,
but it could help set the world on fire.
If you keep using Tao, it works better.
If you keep talking about it,
it won't make any sense.
 
Be cool.


See anything in there that sounds familiar?   >:)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 09:17:58 PM by MasterMischief »

Offline rick957

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #120 on: April 11, 2012, 11:42:54 PM »
:P

;)

...
Is "Be cool" really contained in the translation of the text itself?  Hehe, I love that.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #121 on: April 12, 2012, 08:43:58 AM »
That is Ron's translation. But is he so far off? How many times have you heard someone say, 'They are trying too hard.'? I think our lives could use a little more calm, a little less worry about things we can not control.

Offline rick957

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #122 on: April 12, 2012, 12:04:42 PM »
*nods slowly and sagely in agreement*

It just struck me as playfully anachronistic, being such a modern-sounding expression.  :)

"Be cool, home slice!"

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #123 on: April 12, 2012, 03:04:42 PM »
Ron's translation is playfully anachronistic. I highly recomend it. It is like reading The Big Lebowski's philosophy.

Offline MasterMischiefTopic starter

Re: MasterMischief Explores Taoism
« Reply #124 on: April 12, 2012, 06:35:06 PM »