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Author Topic: Another police state...  (Read 3420 times)

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Offline DizziTopic starter

Another police state...
« on: June 26, 2010, 12:20:19 PM »
So.  Turns out that Canada is becoming a police state.  Why?  Lets put it this way.  If someone is walking around a perimeter of a private function.  they can be politely asked to leave correct?  well.  in this mans case (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/828372--man-arrested-and-left-in-wire-cage-under-new-g20-law) He was told that, unless he showed ID, he would be placed under arrest.  Wait, WHAT?  (He did not show ID and was put under arrest.  This topic is not to discuss whether or not the victim was in the right of not showing his ID.)

I, personally, do not see oit as morally (or legally) right to arrest someone because they were walking around the perimeter of the place and not showing ID.  I mean WTF?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 03:04:18 PM by Dizzi »

Offline Caela

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 12:26:39 PM »
I don't know about Canadian law, but here in the US, most states do have laws that something along the lines that you need to produce ID if a law enforcement official asks you too. So if this person didn't show ID then there is a legal issue involved if that is also the law up in Canada. As for why he was asked to show ID that could be for a variety of reason. Was there a function happening where he was? Was he just walking by, or wandering repeatedly around the perimeter? Had someone there seen him wandering around and called the police? Had there been a rash of robberies in the area recently upping the suspicion factor for the officer? If he was just walking by it was probably a bit much, but if the officer thought he was acting suspiciously then checking his ID isn't necessarily uncalled for.

Offline DizziTopic starter

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2010, 03:04:30 PM »
I put in the wrong link.  oops!

Online Vekseid

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2010, 03:51:24 PM »
Well the US has stop and identify statutes. Needing to produce an ID immediately has not yet been tested, I think.

Offline Wyrd

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 04:17:41 PM »
So.  Turns out that Canada is becoming a police state.  Why?  Lets put it this way.  If someone is walking around a perimeter of a private function.  they can be politely asked to leave correct?  well.  in this mans case (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/828372--man-arrested-and-left-in-wire-cage-under-new-g20-law) He was told that, unless he showed ID, he would be placed under arrest.  Wait, WHAT?  (He did not show ID and was put under arrest.  This topic is not to discuss whether or not the victim was in the right of not showing his ID.)

I, personally, do not see oit as morally (or legally) right to arrest someone because they were walking around the perimeter of the place and not showing ID.  I mean WTF?

You do know that the new police powers are only temporary, right?

Offline consortium11

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2010, 05:20:39 PM »
I put in the wrong link.  oops!

I had wondered what the puppet call thing was about...

Offline Hunter

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2010, 05:54:39 PM »
You do know that the new police powers are only temporary, right?

Right.  And so was the New Deal.

Offline Xenophile

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2010, 06:01:02 PM »
Right.  And so was the New Deal.

Are you seriously comparing comparing an extensive government program in the 1030's to produce jobs, to what powers the police should have in terms of how long they'll last?

It doesn't say much since the New Deal was temporary, as it ended in 1945.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 06:03:37 PM by Xenophile »

Offline Hunter

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2010, 06:18:53 PM »
Are you seriously comparing comparing an extensive government program in the 1030's to produce jobs, to what powers the police should have in terms of how long they'll last?

It doesn't say much since the New Deal was temporary, as it ended in 1945.

If memory serves, Social Security was a part of New Deal.  As was welfare.

And those are temporary, right?  Government has consistently shown that once it has power, it doesn't relinquish it.

Online Vekseid

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2010, 06:33:10 PM »
If memory serves, Social Security was a part of New Deal.  As was welfare.

And those are temporary, right?  Government has consistently shown that once it has power, it doesn't relinquish it.

Like it didn't relinquish the Works Progress Administration.

Or hell.

Name one thing in world history that has been managed with the same level of finesse that the Internet has. Just one.

Offline Hunter

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2010, 06:36:40 PM »
Like it didn't relinquish the Works Progress Administration.

Or hell.

Name one thing in world history that has been managed with the same level of finesse that the Internet has. Just one.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.   :-[

Offline Xenophile

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2010, 09:05:14 PM »
If memory serves, Social Security was a part of New Deal.  As was welfare.

And those are temporary, right?  Government has consistently shown that once it has power, it doesn't relinquish it.

But we're talking about two completely different things. Social Security and Welfare are, and are part of, huge federal institutions. The other was a simple police procedure. One can be fixed quickly, the other cannot.

Besides, I am going on a stretch here and will say that Social Security was probably something that people wanted to stay and yielded results. I guess this issue of time with the Canadian police officers being capable of interring people who do not provide ID will spawn the same reaction from people.

Offline Cecily

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2010, 10:10:43 AM »
The policy was adopted only because the G8 was being hosted in Toronto. Which is a stupid idea, as hosting a controversial and large government event in a large city is usually a pretty bad idea, especially when they decide to hold it in the heart of the city and basically shut it down. So yeah, they decided to put some giant fence around the 'perimeter' of the event and have police flown in from around the province to "protect" it from protestors and such. They also passed a law in secret that they can arrest anyone in the area for no reason if they wish. :P

Hopefully it all goes away by tomorrow. Oh, right, but we'll be stuck with the 1.2 billion dollar plus price tag. :P

Offline Wyrd

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2010, 10:50:15 AM »
The policy was adopted only because the G8 was being hosted in Toronto. Which is a stupid idea, as hosting a controversial and large government event in a large city is usually a pretty bad idea, especially when they decide to hold it in the heart of the city and basically shut it down. So yeah, they decided to put some giant fence around the 'perimeter' of the event and have police flown in from around the province to "protect" it from protestors and such. They also passed a law in secret that they can arrest anyone in the area for no reason if they wish. :P

Hopefully it all goes away by tomorrow. Oh, right, but we'll be stuck with the 1.2 billion dollar plus price tag. :P

ugg. Don't remind me. :-(

Offline Revolverman

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2010, 03:51:45 PM »
The arrest rate is already broke 550.

Offline Jefepato

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2010, 04:03:48 PM »
Well the US has stop and identify statutes. Needing to produce an ID immediately has not yet been tested, I think.

If memory serves, the Supreme Court only tested "stop and identify" statutes under the theory that they merely required one to state one's identity, correct?  I should hope it would be a different result if they required actually producing ID...

Offline Wyrd

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 05:16:05 PM »
lol! The police here in Toronto are bringing out the sound canons now.

Offline Revolverman

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 05:26:23 PM »
lol! The police here in Toronto are bringing out the sound canons now.

Great, now they are using energy weapons.

Offline Xenophile

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2010, 05:36:33 PM »
Great, now they are using energy weapons.

Hap hap!

Sonic weapons.

Offline Revolverman

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2010, 05:39:13 PM »
Hap hap!

Sonic weapons.

Sound is a form of energy. IE, energy weapons.

Offline Xenophile

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2010, 05:45:21 PM »
Sound is a form of energy. IE, energy weapons.

Kinetic force is energy too, example being solid projectiles  ;)

Offline Revolverman

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2010, 05:46:49 PM »
Kinetic force is energy too, example being solid projectiles  ;)

right, but its the physical matter doing the damage, not the energy. If it was, blanks would kill.

Offline Xenophile

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2010, 05:49:14 PM »
right, but its the physical matter doing the damage, not the energy. If it was, blanks would kill.

It is the energy of the impact that kills people. Blanks just, y'know... Doesn't deliver a projectile.

But I digress, that's a different thread alltogether.

Offline Revolverman

Re: Another police state...
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2010, 05:49:57 PM »
It is the energy of the impact that kills people. Blanks just, y'know... Doesn't deliver a projectile.

But I digress, that's a different thread alltogether.

Haha, agreed, though its much better topic then watching this shit in Toronto.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Another police state...
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2010, 07:12:11 PM »
right, but its the physical matter doing the damage, not the energy. If it was, blanks would kill.

I've heard of cases of people getting killed with blank-pistols, typically in a contact-injury situation where the energy doesn't have a chance to dissipate.