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Author Topic: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]  (Read 7487 times)

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Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 09:03:33 PM »
E6 is a different can of worms, Pistol; it cuts off the chunk of the game where conventional melee really begins to suck, keeping it to the 'just starting to lag' phase.  Though the ability to purchase additional feats in E6 tends to make Fighter specifically a comparatively poor choice.

For mounted combat, so long as you take care to keep a sufficiently powerful mount, the traditional problem of riding a living liability isn't so vast; get yourself a magebred heavy warhorse (this is Eberron after all), or possibly a magebred warbeast (MM2) heavy warhorse and it'll be plenty tough to keep from being a liability.

Then just pick up Spirited Charge and a few other charging toys (*Points at Shock Trooper [CW].*) and you're set.

Ixy: He does.  In rather extensive detail.  It's very nice.

Offline PhantomPistoleer

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2009, 09:06:35 PM »
Color me excited.  Kuno!  Help me develop my amazing horse rider. :o

Offline KunoichiTopic starter

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2009, 09:10:44 PM »
I've got one word for you, Phantom: Valenar.  The Elves of Valenar are known for horse-riding, among other things.

*notes that the Valenar Warhorse is a pretty awesome steed*

Of course, it's not something you can just buy. ^^; Rather, it's something to aim for further on down the line.

Offline PhantomPistoleer

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2009, 09:17:49 PM »
I don't really like to play as elves. :D

Maybe I should steer away from being a knight (since I already am one in two other campaigns!), so maybe I should be a rogue?  A scout?  Maybe even a ranger?

Offline KunoichiTopic starter

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2009, 09:19:53 PM »
Ah, but the Valenar are a little more... sword-happy than your typical elves. ;D

Hmm...  Ever tried out any psionic classes?

Offline PhantomPistoleer

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2009, 09:22:42 PM »
I am typically against having to learn another ruleset. :/

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2009, 09:24:53 PM »
Psionics are cake.  I could teach you the main differences in, like, five minutes; way simpler than Vancian.

Offline KunoichiTopic starter

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2009, 09:29:09 PM »
^What she said.  It's easy to learn and pretty fun in its own right.

Offline Ixy

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2009, 10:10:15 PM »
I'm a bit stumped, for now.  Lots of choices in Eberron, but nothing's jumping out.  Mostly spellcaster classes, and with this system I'm a bit uncertain.  I'm thinking tiefling, human, or halfling... barbarian, spirit shaman, or warmage.  But then again, I'm not settled.  Suggestions are welcomed.

Offline KunoichiTopic starter

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2009, 10:19:45 PM »
Well, a halfling Barbarian or Spirit Shaman who's in House Ghallanda would certainly work quite well.  You could be from the Talenta plains and everything. ^^

As for Warmage, The Great Triangle did mention that the plot would involve graduates from the Rekkenmark Military Academy in Karrnath.  You could rather easily be one of those graduates if you wanted.  And Tieflings in Eberron don't tend to stick out too much.  Most of the continent of Khorvaire is a very cosmopolitan place, open and accepting of all sorts.

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2009, 11:11:46 AM »
Well, I had a character statted out before lappy crashed and lost it.  :'(

Anyways, I'm thinking a hin with House Jorasco.  A Bard4/Dragonmark Heir using Capstone Training to reach Greater Dragonmark through the heir and Ultimate Mastery to get access to Improved Greater Dragonmark.  That alright, or would someone like that be of political significance beyond the scope of the game?

Oh, and by number-crunching, shouldn't 26000 XP be two extra feats?  15000 to get to level 6, then another 11,000 means we hit the 5k mark twice.

Now, questions.

Does the 42-point buy with the heightened cap subsume the extra attribute point at level 4, or do we still get that?

Are traits and flaws allowed?  If so, how many?

Bardic Sage, yay or nay?

And, probably for later, how would you rule Lingering Song (Complete Adventurer, page 111) interacting with Bardic Sage (if approved)?  Lingering Song explicitly sets the Bardic Music duration to one minute, twice normal for most Bards, but Bardic Sage has a base of 3 rounds.  Would it just stay as one minute, or would it be 6 or 8 rounds?

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2009, 01:20:14 PM »
I'm still interested in running the game.  :-)  Since Tarrasque seems to be interested in the game, I'll go ahead and let her go ahead and make an OOC thread in Bondage: Small Groups, since that's probobly where the game will land.  Any character sheet submissions should be PMed to me.  I'm looking for about 5-6 characters for a game focused in the wastes of Karrnath and beyond. 

Your characters can be anything from seasoned Bone Knight warlords, to foreign mercenaries, to fresh graduates ready to raise hell. 

I might also be willing to consider applications for an assistant GM spot, since I'm not available to post terribly often, and could use someone willing to help me run combats briskly.  Most combat situations will probobly use the Declare Action/Resolve in Initiative Order, system of play, so that players don't have to bog down posting in initiative order.  Party splits might also be reccomended.

As for specific questions, the extra attribute point at 4th level is still there, you're correct in that you're getting two feats, and traits and flaws are prohibited.  (Though the bardic sage is okay.)  A member of House Jorasco with the greater Dragonmark is a perfectly acceptable character, although you do have to answer the question of why your character is in the Rekkenmark/Karrnathi military. 

The character creation system I'm using is designed so that you guys should be able to create any character you want, story wise.  The power limitation is an inherent limit on human ability in the setting, rather than me intentionally trying to hobble you. 

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2009, 02:29:05 PM »
As an example of changes in the balance of power, here's a Great Wyrm Red Dragon statted up under my E6 rules.  It's extremely strong, but it has certain glaring weaknesses, and is really pretty easy if engaged with heavy magic or brilliant energy weapons. 


Great Wyrm Red Dragon, 15th level Paladin


HP: 240 (135 in human form)

AC: 41 (-8 size, +39 Natural)  Human Form: 23 (+2 Dex, +11 Armor)

Special Defenses: DR 20/Magic, Immunity to Fire, Frightful Presence DC 25, Divine Grace, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, SR 16

Special Attacks: Fire Breath 8d10, Spell Like Abilities (Locate Object, Suggestion, Find the Path, Discern Location, Spells as 9th level sorcerer; spell slots 6/8/8/8/6), Paladin spell slots 4/3/3/3, Smite Evil 4/day, Remove Disease 4/week, Lay on Hands, Turn Undead 11/day

Abilities: Str: 45  Dex: 10  Con: 31  Int: 26  Wis: 26  Cha: 26

Skills: Appraise +19, Bluff +19, Climb +35, Concentration +28, Decipher Script +14, Diplomacy +16, Disguise +26, Forgery +15, Gather Information +26, Intimidate +26, Knowledge (Religion) +20, Knowledge (Arcana) +20, Knowledge (History) +14, Knowlege (Geography) +11, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +10, Listen +18, Spot +18, Spellcraft +24

Feats: Multiattack, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Flyby Attack, Ritual Knowledge

Saving Throws: Fortitude +27 (+20), Reflex +11 (+13), Will +19

Attack: Bite +32 melee (4d8+34), or Crush +32 melee (4d8+34), or Tail Sweep +32 (2d8+17),  human form: Greatsword +24 melee (2d6+11)

Full Attack: 1 Bite +32 (4d8+34), 2 Claws +30 (4d6+17), 2 Wings +30 (2d8+8), 1 Tail Slap +30 (4d6+25), human form: Greatsword +24/+19/+14 (2d6+11)

Spells Known: 0: Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Ghost Sound, Mending, Arcane Mark, Open/Close.  1: Shield, Protection From Evil, Mage Armor, Identify, Charm Person (DC 19).  2: See Invisibility, Mirror Image, Eagle's Splendor, Spider Climb.  3: Dispel Magic, Haste, Keen Edge.  4: Polymorph, Lesser Geas

Rituals Known: Magic Circle Against Evil (Double Area, Affects only one Type, hours duration, DC 31)  Polymorph (Inflicts 10d6 damage on user, casting ritual requires casting equivelent spell, lasts for days, DC 35), Imbue With Spell Ability (DC 40), Commune (50,000 gp focus, 299 secondary casters needed, hours between checks, DC 32), Ressurection (hours between checks, inflicts 30d6 damage on caster, ritual effects increased with failure, DC 33)

Posessions: Full Plate +3, Two Handed Sword +4

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2009, 03:12:47 PM »
A member of House Jorasco with the greater Dragonmark is a perfectly acceptable character, although you do have to answer the question of why your character is in the Rekkenmark/Karrnathi military. 
Point... I may or may not want to come up with a different character.  Could I have a little more background on where we're starting and what we can expect?  Since we're all fresh out of a military academy, I'm guessing we can expect a fair amount of relatively large-scale combat, possible alongside multiple NPCs?

Now that I think about it, the Jorasco idea may be unwise considering my limited knowledge of the setting and how to make things click in a way that makes sense.  I'll have to ponder it for a time.  And there are plenty of other ideas kicking around.  Like a Changeling MoMF, though it's a pain to get Wild Shape without all that natury baggage.  This'd probably take a Wild Shape variant Ranger, probably with a laundry list of other alternate class features.
The power limitation is an inherent limit on human ability in the setting, rather than me intentionally trying to hobble you.
Does that mean I could keep leveling 'til 15 if I rolled up a wyrmling dragon? :P

Offline KunoichiTopic starter

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2009, 03:15:31 PM »
Well, House Jorasco's central enclave is in Karrnath, so the Rekkenmark Academy would probably have a few House Jorasco personnel on hand to treat any injuries that come from training...

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2009, 03:33:22 PM »
Okay, I'm going to go with my Warforged Warlock idea, a unique experimental model built by Merric D'Cannith in his secret illegal creation forge.

Now I just have to figure out how your rules interact with gaining new Invocations.

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2009, 03:37:38 PM »
At 6th level, a warlock can take least or lesser invocations, and they can take the class training feat to get another lesser invocation, and you can probobly take a custom feat to get additional lesser invocations.  The capstone training feat enables you to take a single greater invocation, though you'll probobly have to have in story justification if you want to try and get any more.

If you play a Dragon or Undead, you technically could get to the HD cap, but for practical purposes I'm going to limit non humanoid characters to level 6.  Most of them need more than a human lifetime to hit levels higher than 6, although undead are a slight exception.  (for them it's more about unholy power, which non evil undead won't benefit much from)

The party probobly will be engaging in some fairly large battles.  I'm thinking of having their first assignment be "Stop a malfunctioning warforged titan"  (something I do pretty often in Eberron, but it gives the PC's something to do)

Offline PhantomPistoleer

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2009, 03:52:18 PM »
How would you go about becoming a cavalier using these rules?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2009, 03:53:32 PM »
At 6th level, a warlock can take least or lesser invocations, and they can take the class training feat to get another lesser invocation, and you can probobly take a custom feat to get additional lesser invocations.  The capstone training feat enables you to take a single greater invocation, though you'll probobly have to have in story justification if you want to try and get any more.

Okay, so Class Training replaces the rather pathetic Extra Invocation existing feat, while Capstone Training (Invocations) increases my effective level for what invocations I can pick from?

Class Training = additional invocation of anything up to the maximum I can already get (Lesser or Least at level 6).
Capstone Training would give me the class features of a level 8 warlock, in this case Fiendish Resilience.

I wouldn't be able to get any Greater invocations though, unless Capstone Training and Ultimate Mastery stack, to gain me a class feature of a level 12 Warlock, i.e. access to one Greater Invocation, and then Class Training would (theoretically) let me gain further Greater invocations? Dark Invocations would be permanently inaccessible, unless I could somehow take Capstone training (Invocations) once and Ultimate Mastery (Invocations) twice.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 03:55:09 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2009, 03:57:14 PM »
There be much to consider.  *Ponders.*
How would you go about becoming a cavalier using these rules?
Prestige Training, Capstone Training, Ultimate Mastery, Class Training.

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2009, 04:11:21 PM »
Okay, so Class Training replaces the rather pathetic Extra Invocation existing feat, while Capstone Training (Invocations) increases my effective level for what invocations I can pick from?

Class Training = additional invocation of anything up to the maximum I can already get (Lesser or Least at level 6).
Capstone Training would give me the class features of a level 8 warlock, in this case Fiendish Resilience.

I wouldn't be able to get any Greater invocations though, unless Capstone Training and Ultimate Mastery stack, to gain me a class feature of a level 12 Warlock, i.e. access to one Greater Invocation, and then Class Training would (theoretically) let me gain further Greater invocations? Dark Invocations would be permanently inaccessible, unless I could somehow take Capstone training (Invocations) once and Ultimate Mastery (Invocations) twice.

Class Training only grants you one class feature at a higher level, but it does stack with capstone training and ultimate mastery to let you take a class feature that would be accessable by level 12.  (like greater invocations.)

(though class training wouldn't let you take another greater invocation, and dark invocations are right out, being beyond mortal ken.  You might be able to get powers on this level within play though, as rewards for particularly dangerous adventures or actions)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 04:15:28 PM by The Great Triangle »

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2009, 04:20:47 PM »
Alright, just still a little confused, because a warlock's access to invocations of X level and the number of invocations it has could be two different class features.

Theoretically, I take the following feats:
Capstone Training (Invocations): +2 effective levels for my Invocations
Ultimate Mastery (Invocations): +4 effective levels for my Invocations.

I am considered a level 12 Warlock for purposes of choosing Invocations (giving me access to Greater Invocations), but do I also have the Invocations Known of a 12th level Warlock (7) or those of a 6th level warlock (4)? The New Invocation (Greater, Lesser, Least) ability at level 11 comes at the same level as the Invocations Known column increases from 6 to 7, in the same way that a Sorcerer gets 4th level spells known at the same level they gain 4th level spell slots, but they are considered two different features according to those custom feats.



Or am I reading it wrong, and Class Training alone would bump my Invocation access to 11th (Greaters), at which point I could take Capstone Training (Invocations Known) to actually learn a Greater Invocation, since Invocations Known increases from 4 to 5 at 8th level?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 04:25:47 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2009, 04:25:37 PM »
Capstone Training and Ultimate Mastery are for gaining class features, not advancing effective class level.  You could get more advanced class abilities, but you'd still be a 6th-level Warlock.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2009, 04:28:58 PM »
Right, I just re-read them. So if I understand it properly now, Class Training will improve my Invocations ability from (Lesser or Least) to (Greater, Lesser, or Least), but not actually increase the number of invocations I know, since that's listed in a separate column. Which feat would give me more invocations known, Extra Knowledge?

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2009, 04:39:59 PM »
Class Training advances your number of invocations known, and I'll let you take it multiple times (within reason) to raise the number of invocations known.  I'm considering changing the tag on that one to "can be taken multiple times; effects stack" although that might lead to a certain amount of strangeness. 

Still, nothing in your rule writing can help the players not reading them properly.  ;)

Hopefully these rules aren't too complicated to figure out.