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Author Topic: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'  (Read 1316 times)

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Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« on: September 16, 2009, 02:04:54 AM »

It’s an interesting thing, really. This Christmas I’ll have been a citizen of Georgia for eleven years. What was somewhat surprising, hearing the way people talk down here, is that our 39th president, a native of Plains, Georgia is not necessarily the golden boy of his home state.

But we are talking a Democrat from the land of the conservative bible belt, and that’s not going to rub everyone here nicely. However, consider what Carter has done, both in office and afterward. The much lauded released of the hostages in Iran occurred on Carter’s watch in the final days of his administration…Reagan only took credit for it.

Carter brokered lasting peace between Egypt and Israel when in office, during the days of Anwar Sadat, another great world leader. Post term he has remained very active in the political scene. In my opinion he was one of our best Post-War presidents and I have respect for him.


And I think he called this one out for what it was. A shame the South didn’t produce more like Carter. This corner of the country still harbors sizable pockets of very backwater and uneducated people.


http://www.macon.com/272/story/845537.html


Quote

Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'


ATLANTA -- Former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday that U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst to President Barack Obama during a speech to Congress last week was an act "based on racism" and rooted in fears of a black president.

"I think it's based on racism," Carter said in response to an audience question at a town hall held at his presidential center in Atlanta. "There is an inherent feeling among many in this country that an African-American should not be president."

     
 
The Georgia Democrat said the outburst was a part of a disturbing trend directed at the president that has included demonstrators equating Obama to Nazi leaders.

"Those kind of things are not just casual outcomes of a sincere debate on whether we should have a national program on health care," he said. "It's deeper than that."

Wilson, a South Carolina Republican, was formally rebuked Tuesday in a House vote for shouting "You lie!" during Obama's speech to Congress last Wednesday.

The shout came after the president commented that illegal aliens would be ineligible for federal subsidies to buy health insurance. Republicans expressed their disbelief with sounds of disapproval, punctuated by Wilson's outburst.

Tuesday's rebuke was a rare resolution of disapproval pushed through by Democrats who insisted that Wilson had violated basic rules of decorum and civility. Republicans characterized the measure as a witch hunt and Wilson, who had already apologized to Obama, insisted he owed the House no apology.

Wilson's spokesman was not immediately available for comment, but his eldest son defended his father.

"There is not a racist bone in my dad's body," said Alan Wilson, an Iraq veteran who is running for state attorney general. "He doesn't even laugh at distasteful jokes. I won't comment on former President Carter, because I don't know President Carter. But I know my dad, and it's just not in him."

"It's unfortunate people make that jump. People can disagree - and appropriately disagree - on issues of substance, but when they make the jump to race it's absolutely ludicrous. My brothers and I were raised by our parents to respect everyone regardless of background or race."

South Carolina's former Democratic Party chairman said that he doesn't believe Wilson was motivated by racism, but said the outburst encouraged racist views.

"I think Joe's conduct was asinine, but I think it would be asinine no matter what the color of the president," said Dick Harpootlian, who has known Wilson for decades. "I don't think Joe's outburst was caused by President Obama being African-American. I think it was caused by no filter being between his brain and his mouth."

Harpootlian said he received scores of racial e-mails from outside South Carolina after he talked about the vote on Fox News.

"You have a bunch of folks out there looking for some comfort in their racial issues. They have a problem with an African-American president," he said. "But was he motivated by that? I don't think so. I respectfully disagree with President Carter, though it gives validity to racism."

Carter called Wilson's comment "dastardly" and an aftershock of racist views that have permeated American politics for decades.

"The president is not only the head of government, he is the head of state," he said. "And no matter who he is or how much we disagree with his policies, the president should be treated with respect."


« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 02:05:57 AM by The Overlord »

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2009, 07:42:09 AM »
Yeah, President Carter was a very..unique president.

But don't forget even with his good actions he did some boneheaded ones (The Boycott of the Moscow Olypics comes to mind as well as the micromanagement of the Hostage rescue attempts).

The somewhat 'shady' actions occuring during the Carter/Reagan election period lead me to believe that some of the Reagan campaign pulled very deeply from 'Tricky Dick's' bags. (There was more than a little indicaiton that vital campaign documents 'vanished' from Carter's Atlanta headquarters and were used by Reagan's staff.)

(Of course I think Ronald Reagan did some good as well..even if he cost me a shot at federal aid for college back then..)

And don't forget the outfitting of the predecessor's of the Taliban started under the Carter Whitehouse (not that I blame him OR George Bush (who was at the CIA at the time) for doing it)

All in all though, I think President Carter was a man of foresight and will that did astonishing  things given the time he was in the white house. Peace between Isreal and Egypt back then? Good lord that itself was a miracle!

Do I think he'd have gotten elected if not for Watergate?

Sadly, no. Which is a damn shame. We need more good navy types in the white house. :D

Offline OneOfAKiind

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2009, 11:19:31 AM »
It is incredibly irksome to me how everything seems to come back to race at some point or another.

My personal problems with Obama have nothing to do with the color of his skin and I really and truly hate it when people accuse me of simply not liking him because I am racist.

There are many other reasons to disagree with Obama, and I do not think that Wilson's comment at all was because he's racist.

Yes, as the head of state, he should be respected and the outburst was disgraceful, but to just say that he did it because he's racist is stupid. Unless he comes out and says that that was the actual motivation, then leave it out of the discussion because otherwise it's just speculation and is only going to put people at arms.

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Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 02:36:44 PM »
I've no idea if the outburst was racially motivated or not, but if it was, do you think he'd admit it? He'd be crucified politically for that one, not least by his own party to show that they don't share his opinions.


Offline Revolverman

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2009, 03:59:26 PM »
It's sad that all debate on Obama's Presidency is being stopped with "Racism". How Pathetic.

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Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2009, 04:04:37 PM »
It's the new Godwin.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 04:43:20 PM »
I've no idea if the outburst was racially motivated or not, but if it was, do you think he'd admit it? He'd be crucified politically for that one, not least by his own party to show that they don't share his opinions.


Of course not, and this is the new cowardly approach that’s employed. In past decades, people could be open and brash with their racism, particularly here in the South. In this age, and here fortunately is an area where we’ve made marvelous progress, you can’t play that game without hanging yourself.


Mind you, I am not blaming the South alone. In my three decades up North, I witnessed ample racist remarks or acts. Racism does indeed still exist, make no mistake on that, but now it’s cowardly and slithers out of the cracks.

There are obviously still racist politicians in office. What they’ll do today is find something else they can harp on Obama or other targets with, the but the initial assault may be racially motivated. I will repeat what I’ve said before, there are people out there that have a fundamental issue with a black man in the Oval Office. Some of them are in power.

Regardless of Wilson's motives, the GOP display last week during Obama’s address was an embarrassing debacle of effrontery and arrogance. It basically underscored why I’ve been moved from dislike to open hatred of the GOP in recent years. If it weren’t for the risk of a one-party system, I’d say do away with them for good.


It is incredibly irksome to me how everything seems to come back to race at some point or another.


As far as racism being overly called out, I also believe that’s a tool of the rightwing extremists. The race card is often played more than it needs to be, but these intolerants have learned to be subtler in this day and age. As I said, they’ll wrap their racism in the guise of something else that can be seen as legitimate. Then they sit back and wait for the race card to be played, so they can go uh huh, same old same old tired excuse.

Offline OneOfAKiind

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 04:53:19 PM »
I couldn't even talk about not voting for Obama to people because it always came down to me being racist, which I am NOT. I am so tired of being accused like that, it's a great tactic for avoiding what is actually lying beneath. The fact that people just assume that opponents are opponents because they're racist is awful and I can't stand it. People need to set race aside and focus on more important matters.

I do realize that yeah, there are probably still people out there that ARE racist and that IS a problem, but you know what, white people aren't the only ones who are racist. I have met plenty of black people who HATE white people, and so on and so forth with other races.

But there is more going on right now. Health care, the economic crisis, the unemployment, the middle east, etc etc.

Just because someone speaks out though, shouldn't automatically make him or her a racist and to say that publicly like Carter has should be considered nothing short slander.



Overlord, while I see your point, you make it sound like the Right is the only side to blame.

Offline September

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 05:37:16 PM »
As far as racism being overly called out, I also believe that’s a tool of the rightwing extremists. The race card is often played more than it needs to be, but these intolerants have learned to be subtler in this day and age. As I said, they’ll wrap their racism in the guise of something else that can be seen as legitimate. Then they sit back and wait for the race card to be played, so they can go uh huh, same old same old tired excuse.

Forgive me but are you suggesting that lack of racist behaviour is in fact evidence of racism?

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Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 05:58:21 PM »
I think an example might be like back in the days when crack cocaine was first hitting the streets.  At the time, it was predominantly used and sold in the inner cities, which were predominantly populated by African Americans.  Meanwhile, cocaine had a more 'upscale' customer base (I'm sure you've heard of the image of rich white people snorting it through rolled up $100 bills?).

Despite the fact that both drugs were essentially the same, lawmakers enacted harsher penalties against crack - not a 'racist' act, but one that disproportionally affected poor African-American males.

The Supreme Court's moratorium on the death penalty back in the 70's was enacted because there was a disproportionate number of African-Americans on death row, especially in southern states.

So, yes, you can have racism even when the surface reasons show no evidence.  It's all in how things are put into practice.

(I'm sure that some protester will bring up the fact that making the health-insurance credits unavailable to illegal immigrants could be seen as discriminatory against Hispanics.)

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 10:00:43 PM »
Forgive me but are you suggesting that lack of racist behaviour is in fact evidence of racism?

No, that’s not what I’m suggesting.

What I am suggesting is that the current cultural climate is significantly different than it was in the past. Several decades ago you could segregate public facilities and businesses. Today, if you put a ‘coloreds only’ sign on a bus or public restroom, you’d have a virtual shit storm of litigation and more civil rights groups on your ass than you could ever count, which is how it should have always been.


In this climate, the racists among us have learned to be clever haters. They days of white hoods and sheets are over; today they hide in plain sight and choose their words and actions methodically. If they come right out boldly, they’ll only crucify themselves, so they wrap their hatred in something else to sell it.


I also firmly believe a tactic of goading is in play. Full well knowing the race card gets played often, sometimes where it doesn’t apply, they employ something that could be very arguably interpreted as racism, and then when the card is dropped on the table, they turn it about 180º to make their targets look like they're overreacting, hoping for the public eye-rolling to follow. Today they leave themselves an out.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 10:07:25 PM by The Overlord »

Online Zeitgeist

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 10:56:51 PM »
The Race card? Wow. How's that Change and Hope working out there for you all? Incredible.

Cannot criticize the man's policies now, or else you're a racist.

Might as well just give the man a crown and scepter.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2009, 12:06:36 AM »
The Race card? Wow. How's that Change and Hope working out there for you all? Incredible.

Cannot criticize the man's policies now, or else you're a racist.

Might as well just give the man a crown and scepter.

That's a very tiring and predictable response from GOP voters in general. "If you don't entirely live up to our criteria, you're not worthy of our praise or support. In fact you're probably un-American, and most likely a socialist or Nazi."



How that forced abortion and senior citizen death camp thing going for you?

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Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2009, 02:51:18 AM »
Keep it civil folks. You know the drill by now.

Offline September

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2009, 06:15:05 AM »
*SNIP*

But if they're not actually saying or doing anything racist, what leads you to believe that people like this Congressman are in fact racist?

Offline Revolverman

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2009, 01:28:16 PM »
That's a very tiring and predictable response from GOP voters in general. "If you don't entirely live up to our criteria, you're not worthy of our praise or support. In fact you're probably un-American, and most likely a socialist or Nazi."



How that forced abortion and senior citizen death camp thing going for you?

So? That has no point in what we are talking about now.

and what the hell is up with that last bit?

Offline Destiny Ascension

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2009, 05:20:29 PM »
Oh, by this logic, since I disagree with President Obama on several fronts, health care included, it would seem even us backwards motherfuckers from Seattle are racist morons. Pardon me for my blindness to my own prejudices, I'm sure I would have figured it out eventually.

On topic, last I checked, when Congress questioned the President...THAT WAS THEIR JOB! Considering half of them aren't doing it, if you have to be racist to do your job, then when does the 'Change' we were so vigorously promised come?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 05:28:54 PM by Destiny Ascension »

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Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2009, 06:53:02 PM »
I've already said once to keep things civil. I won't repeat myself again.

If you are incapable of replying to this thread without resorting to profanity or equally poor behaviour, then walk away from it til you can. Just to remind you, Rule 2 of the site states "Be polite, be civil, be respectful." That's one to keep in mind in particular when discussing religion or politics.

Any more of this behaviour and the thread will be locked.


Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2009, 09:51:23 PM »

Any more of this behaviour and the thread will be locked.

/shrug Perhaps you should lock it. Anytime the health care debate comes up, we run over the same tired ground.


The opponents of the proposed health care plan always go with the same rhetoric. ‘We’re going to lose our freedoms’, ‘we’re going to become a socialist nation’, ‘this plan isn’t going to work’.



Yada yada and yada, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Not once…not once have I heard an actual genuine argument against it that makes coherent sense. If you want to have a valid retort on the topic, you have to do better than just repeat the same tiring propaganda you’ve heard from Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, or the other (non)personalities whoring for the GOP.


I’m dead serious here…I challenge someone here, anyone here. Convince me why the health reform plan is bad. This is not a troll, this is a genuine request…inquiring minds seriously want to know.

Online Zeitgeist

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2009, 11:02:07 PM »
You've already made up your mind that there isn't any reasonable argument against nationalized health care, so what would be the point? You'd just rationalize your way around any reasonably well put together argument.

And anyways, the thread isn't about health care specifically, its about how people who disagree with Obama's policies are castigated as racists.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2009, 01:07:33 AM »
You've already made up your mind that there isn't any reasonable argument against nationalized health care, so what would be the point? You'd just rationalize your way around any reasonably well put together argument.


That's exactly the response I was expecting. You don't have an argument, plain and simple.


And anyways, the thread isn't about health care specifically, its about how people who disagree with Obama's policies are castigated as racists.

Bub, this is MY thread, if I want to include health care I damned well will, because Carter's remark was over Wilson's outburst regarding the entire health care debate in Congress in the first place.

And if I want to lock it I will, in fact I'll save Hairy the trouble of doing it since it's clearly serving no purpose now. It’s your right that you don't agree with Obama's policy, but you had your chance to say why and instead you took the arrogant route I've come to expect of GOP supporters. It occurs to me that in the time it took you to make a rhetorical post, you could have explained your case. There’s real irony for you.