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Author Topic: 9 August, 1945  (Read 750 times)

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Offline The OverlordTopic starter

9 August, 1945
« on: August 09, 2009, 09:27:54 PM »

The anniversaries have come and nearly gone, and Iím glad I saw a link just now.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki



Sixty-four years on, itís easy to forget how much has changed. Back in the day, just as we more recently seen this flash of anti-Muslim hatred post-911, nobody in the United States would have been caught dead driving a Japanese car.

Anime, even if it existed, would not be here Stateside.

Sushi bars down the street from you? Forget it.


In the Post War era, the cultures of America and Japan have enriched one another. Seven decades ago, neither of our nations were wholly the devil, nor were we angels. Atrocities were committed on both sides, and with the 6th and 9th of August 1945, the human tragedy of World War Two came to an abrupt end, and the world was thrown heedless into a new age. Everything was different, everything is different now, but we canít afford to forget.

Online Vekseid

Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 10:51:14 PM »
Whether the bombing of Nagasaki spurred the Japanese surrender is going to be debated for a long time. Hiroshima - despite being a much uglier bomb - most certainly did, sparking a decently documented debate. The only note for Nagasaki is that it "changed no one's opinion" between the hawks and doves.

Offline Arazel Eternal

Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 07:42:06 PM »
The one dropped on Nagasaki was the bigger of the two bombs, though the first one did more damage due to the cities flatter layout.  The power of the bomb was able to hit a much larger area at once, thus why the smaller bomb made the greater damage.  I think it was too bad that we only used two on them and not more, but I dont want to start a flame way by saying too much.

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Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 09:18:10 AM »
Do not hurt where holding is enough;
do not wound where hurting is enough;
do not maim where wounding is enough;
and kill not where maiming is enough.
The greatest warrior is he who does not need to kill.

S. Donaldson, The Illearth War.

Offline Bayushi

Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 03:52:29 PM »
I think it was too bad that we only used two on them and not more, but I dont want to start a flame way by saying too much.

Careful what you say. There are Japanese citizens on this board. Such as myself. >:(

Online Vekseid

Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 04:44:59 PM »
...  I think it was too bad that we only used two on them and not more, but I dont want to start a flame way by saying too much.

...err, right. So why did you say it?

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 05:22:06 AM »
I posted this in EU and not poli/religion intentionally as a memorial, and not a debate.

Something to be mindful of here-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall


Quote

Operation Downfall had two parts: Operation Olympic and Operation Coronet. Set to begin in October 1945, Operation Olympic was intended to capture the southern third of the southernmost main Japanese island, Kyūshū, with the recently captured island of Okinawa to be used as a staging area.

Later, in spring 1946, Operation Coronet was the planned invasion of the Kantō plain, near Tokyo, on the Japanese island of Honshū. Airbases on Kyūshū captured in Operation Olympic would allow land-based air support for Operation Coronet.

Japan's geography made this invasion plan obvious to the Japanese as well; they were able to predict accurately the Allied invasion plans and accordingly adjust their defensive plan, Operation Ketsugō. The Japanese planned an all-out defense of Kyūshū, with little left in reserve for any subsequent defense operations.

Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties and tens of millions for Japanese casualties.


If the decision to drop the bombs had not been made, or if the warrior spirit had won out in Japan, Operation Downfall would have taken place.


The atomic bombings certainly saved many Allied lives, and although it was not their intent at the time, and as horrible as the weapons were, the bombs also saved many more Japanese lives than they took.

These were the final big blows that brought the Second World War to a close, and although it was a terrible thing, it actually could have been worse. Americaís graveyards would have been a lot fuller; many of the men that fought, including my great uncle who fought north through Italy and then went as far as Okinawa, would not be alive to tell their stories now.

In contrast, the 1980ís boom in Japan would likely not have occurred; they would have still been too busy rebuilding.

All this taken into account, I would say two was quite sufficient. Two was tragically two too many.

Offline Torch

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Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 12:04:59 PM »
These were the final big blows that brought the Second World War to a close, and although it was a terrible thing, it actually could have been worse. Americaís graveyards would have been a lot fuller; many of the men that fought, including my great uncle who fought north through Italy and then went as far as Okinawa, would not be alive to tell their stories now.


Completely correct. Military historians are almost all in agreement that an invasion of Japan would have been horrific. The grandfather I never got the chance to meet was killed on Okinawa; the flag that draped his coffin and the posthumous Purple Heart and Silver Star medals he received are displayed proudly in my mother's home. My mother was six months old when he was killed; she never got to meet him either.

Although I certainly would not want to have been in President Truman's shoes, I firmly agree that his decision, while difficult, was the right one.

Offline Ahrendel Phaedra

Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 02:39:43 PM »
Although I certainly would not want to have been in President Truman's shoes, I firmly agree that his decision, while difficult, was the right one.

Conflict is never an easy decision, never one to be taken lightly. I can not imagine the concerns that an upright human being endures when he signs to have potentially hundreds of thousands of people killed.

That said...

May the souls of those who fought find everlasting and peaceful slumber.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: 9 August, 1945
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 08:17:52 PM »

The ones who built the weapons and the ones who gave the order to fire them had an unenviable burden.


Oppenheimer, Teller, and the rest of the scientists that worked on the Manhattan Project and succeeding events understood more than anyone what they were doing. The detonation at Los Alamos was a bittersweet moment for them because they had achieved a scientific milestone, but also opened the door to the nuclear age.

There was the knowledge of what they had made and how it was going to be used, but also the urgency to finish, as if they werenít first, others including Hitler might have had one first.


My great uncle actually passed last year; but he was a spry guy into his eighties that even went on a cruise to Mexico with us in the fall of 2005. A crucial moment was an evening we spent at a seaside restaurant the night before boarding the ship on Galveston Island, Texas. He was recounting some of his war stories for us over dinner.

Normally a soft-spoken guy, his tone rose to a strength and volume that I hadn't heard before, and made it clear he was reliving it, not just recounting it. Sixty years on the memories were fresh, it was a privilege to sit in on that.